M3Pro H264 vs H265 file sizes identical

[ExEvo]

Scratching my head as I switched my new Mini 3 Pro to H265 to get smaller file sizes and it turns out the file size is identical to H264. Having used the H265 codec quite a lot in the past, the file size saving is considerable so it looks to me that it hasn't been implemented by DJI. What do you think? Other than being a day apart, these 4K/30fps clips are of virtually identical subject, route, height, bitrate, length and size - which they shouldn't be since the one on the left is H265 (HEVC) while the one on the right is H264.

 

[SethB]

There are no fixed bitrates in the h.265 or h.264 specs.

That means:
If DJI has used the same bitrate, (which results in the same file size for clips of equal length), across both codecs, DJI’s goals are to get higher quality in the same bitrate (file size) by using h.265.

Those may not be your goals… but DJI does not give us bitrate choices, only codec choices with baked-in bitrates.

One of the premises of using HEVC/h.265 is equal quality to h.264 at a smaller bitrate or filesize. But that’s not the only premise; it can also be higher quality at the same bitrate as h.264.

More on bitrate:

A beginner’s guide to bit rate | Adobe

Bitrate refers to depth of information, whether in video or audio. Learn how professionals use, store, and transfer video files using bitrates.

www.adobe.com

High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC), also known as H.265 and MPEG-H Part 2, is a video compression standard designed as part of the MPEG-H project as a successor to the widely used Advanced Video Coding (AVC, H.264, or MPEG-4 Part 10). In comparison to AVC, HEVC offers from 25% to 50% better data compression at the same level of video quality, or substantially improved video quality at the same bit rate.

High Efficiency Video Coding - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[ExEvo]

Thank you. Both clips have the same bitrate (93Mb/s) and I don't immediately see much difference between them but presumably would if I were editing them. Does shooting in H265 put any additional overhead on the drone's processor/battery?

 

[Ralph thompson]

Do you see any difference, does one look better quality? (Better contrast, sharper colour variation)

 

[Kilrah]

Does shooting in H265 put any additional overhead on the drone's processor/battery?

No. It will on your editing rig though.

 

[ExEvo]

Do you see any difference, does one look better quality? (Better contrast, sharper colour variation)

Maybe marginally better quality but I can't be sure about that until I've done some more testing. I did see a pro film editor writing somewhere that he could see no difference between H264 and H265 until he got down to editing.

 

[DmitryGlinka]

I was puzzled about this very same observation.
I take 4K/30FPS/MPEG-4/Normal (8bit) videos with my Mini3Pro and I see that regardless of whether I use H.265/HEVC or the default H.264/AVC there seems no superior compression achieved with H.265. I get 5mins 23seconds footage on a 3.8GB file in both examples. I have no issues about the 3.8GB file size (this is expected - due to chaptering) but I was expecting longer video footage on the same size file when using H.265.

I currently have an outstanding support call open with DJI on this point.
Please also open a support ticket with DJI... adds more fuel to the fire!

In regards to quality, both are lossy compression algorithms.
H.265 isn't expected to produce better quality video. However, better quality is expected on lower bandwidth links due to H.265 supposedly producing a smaller file, which would consume less bandwidth and thus display better quality due to less bandwidth required. This theory is not possible if the filesize is same as H.264.

 

[Kilrah]

H.265 isn't expected to produce better quality video. However, better quality is expected on lower bandwidth links due to H.265 supposedly producing a smaller file, which would consume less bandwidth and thus display better quality due to less bandwidth required. This theory is not possible if the filesize is same as H.264.

It's supposed to produce better quality at same bitrate. That can be used either to make smaller files at same quality, or higher quality at same filesize. DJI like many others chose the latter.

 

[DmitryGlinka]

It's supposed to produce better quality at same bitrate. That can be used either to make smaller files at same quality, or higher quality at same filesize. DJI like many others chose the latter.

I aim to find out. Everything I read so far suggests H.265 only offers reduction in size... I have not read anything to suggest quality is improved outside of the scope I mentioned. DJI support are asking me to send them to videos to examine (one in H.265 and one in H.264), like as it this is news to them.

 

[Kilrah]

DJI support people have no idea about the technical workings of the thing, they just have scripts to follow for user issues.

Everything I read so far suggests H.265 only offers reduction in size...

Yes because that's what things like streaming services and content distribution use it for because what matters for them is storage/bandwidth, so that's what most people will see and what is advertised, but logically one implies the other.

 

[cah]

h.265 delivers equivalent quality at a smaller file size. Killrah is absolutely right that if you have an X.264 and X.265 encoded video and they are both the same size, then the X.265 video will delivey better quality video, as equivalent-quality video would have resulted in a smaller file size

 

[SethB]

I aim to find out. Everything I read so far suggests H.265 only offers reduction in size... I have not read anything to suggest quality is improved outside of the scope I mentioned. DJI support are asking me to send them to videos to examine (one in H.265 and one in H.264), like as it this is news to them.

I don’t think DJI Customer Service is going to help much with this; maybe I’m wrong but my impression is that they can help when something is wrong with your drone. Nothing is wrong in the codec settings that DJI engineers have determined.

If your goals for h.265/HEVC are to have smaller file sizes of quality equivalent to h.264/AVC you won’t get that from DJI’s design goals. You can certainly transcode using a free encoding tool like Handbrake, a real workhorse. There are others.

@DmitryGlinka if you will read the two articles I linked in Post #2 of this thread you will find more information about video compression and the differences between h.264/AVC and h.265/HEVC, including the different goals one can achieve.

Again, for a given file or stream, if an h.265 encode is set as the same bitrate as an h.264 encode it will be of higher quality. With greater compression more information can be packed in the file.

On the other hand, though this is entirely true both in theory and in practice, we may or may not be able to perceive that increase in quality. We certainly won’t see that difference on a phone, and likely won’t see it in files that have been uploaded to Youtube.

I write with some assurance about this as I have given it much study both in my pro career in video production and my college teaching career in digital media and distribution.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I aim to find out. Everything I read so far suggests H.265 only offers reduction in size... I have not read anything to suggest quality is improved outside of the scope I mentioned. DJI support are asking me to send them to videos to examine (one in H.265 and one in H.264), like as it this is news to them.

Your missing the fact that quality is a variable in both 264 an 265. Quality and bit rate can be inversely traded depending on what one needs at the time of compression.

Since 265 can compress more at the same quality, it can produce better quality at the same bit rate. This may be irrelevant if the quality setting during compression washing on both to begin with. However, in the scenario where bandwidth is a premium, say 48bps, you will have to reduce the quality parameter on 264 to get it to stream where you won't on the 265 compression.

96mbps is a pretty high bit rate, so both standards are going to produce high quality that will be hard to distinguish. You can take the h265 96mbps footage and recompress it quite a bit without compromising the quality.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Again, for a given file or stream, if an h.265 encode is set as the same bitrate as an h.264 encode it will be of higher quality. With greater compression more information can be packed in the file.

Yes, but this isn't linear. There are diminishing returns on turning up the bit rate for both codecs.

 

[DmitryGlinka]

DJI Support have responded to me with the following:

DJI Mini 3 Pro was designed with almost the same bit rate configuration under H.265 encoding and H.264 encoding, therefore, the size of the two recorded videos under H.265 encoding and H.264 encoding is almost the same.

The same bit rate configuration under H.265 encoding will have a better video performance quality than that under H.264 encoding, instead, if there is a huge different bit rate configuration between H.265 encoding and H.264 encoding, the size of the video recorded under the H.265 encoding will be much smaller than that under the H.264 encoding, but the video performance quality will have no difference, as such, DJI takes the same bit rate configuration strategy for the DJI Mini 3 Pro, hope you can understand.

 

[ExEvo]

DJI Support have responded to me with the following:

DJI Mini 3 Pro was designed with almost the same bit rate configuration under H.265 encoding and H.264 encoding, therefore, the size of the two recorded videos under H.265 encoding and H.264 encoding is almost the same.

The same bit rate configuration under H.265 encoding will have a better video performance quality than that under H.264 encoding, instead, if there is a huge different bit rate configuration between H.265 encoding and H.264 encoding, the size of the video recorded under the H.265 encoding will be much smaller than that under the H.264 encoding, but the video performance quality will have no difference, as such, DJI takes the same bit rate configuration strategy for the DJI Mini 3 Pro, hope you can understand.

Can this not be made user-configurable? Option 1 = Better video; Option 2 = Smaller files.

 

[DmitryGlinka]

Can this not be made user-configurable? Option 1 = Better video; Option 2 = Smaller files.

You are welcome to enquire with DJI support on this matter.
I see nowhere with such options, so my expectation is NO.

 

[Kilrah]

Yes it can be made user-configurable, but it hasn't been made so on DJI's devices.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Yes it can be made user-configurable, but it hasn't been made so on DJI's devices.

Ever. Since 265 was first supported.

I'm not hopeful