DJI Mavic, Air and Mini Drones
Friendly, Helpful & Knowledgeable Community
Join Us Now

Mavic 2 Enterprise (DUAL) Released!

An example of this image with a 640x512 grid overtop.

mavic flir with 640.JPG

and when we zoom in, you can see there are lots of pixels on target. (at least 330) If this were a real image, the subject would look likely look remarkably like an adult human holding a remote controller in his hands.

mavic flir 6402.JPG

This essentially means that a 640 camera can view 4 times the area while still having enough pixels to identify a target. If scanning a large area, this allows the drone to fly safely above the trees and search much more area in a given timeframe.

I hope my explaination makes sense. This is why resolution matters.
 
as a comparison, here is a screen grab from an xt2 640 at about 100 feet horizontal distance:

mavic flir xt2.jpg

And based solely on the visible image, i'm going to guess that the following images are from approximately 200-300' distance from the pilot:

DJI_0008.jpg

DJI_0009_R.JPG
 
Last edited:
DJI included a crappy low resolution FLIR camera because they don’t have to do any better. They have the most well integrated aerial platform and people will likely buy it no matter what is placed. Putting a crappy low resolution thermal camera allows them to claim a thermal drone without hurting margin on the XT2. And for a possibility of a Mavic 3 enterprise dual with a 320 camera and get people to buy again.
 
as a comparison, here is a screen grab from an xt2 640 at about 100 feet horizontal distance:

640 res XT2 is a fantastic camera, as you've explained (thanks for taking the time to put that detailed information together). AFAIK, all the lens options for an XT2 are narrower FOV than the 57 deg HFOV Lepton 3.5.

No doubt Lepton has its place however we do think this is too limited for SAR. I agree about detection - we've found that even a Boson 320 with 34 deg HFOV can clearly show a person waving their arms at 200 metres, whilst still being wide angle enough to see what's going on around you (just about).
 
Here is an example with me standing 130m (425ft) from the camera. You can make out the arm waving quite clearly, though the original footage is better. Compressing and uploading to YT managed to make it a bit more fuzzy.

Anyway, gives you an idea of what the Boson 320 can achieve.

Note that I was standing past the crest of a hill, so you can only see my head/shoulders.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Lapeer20m
Interesting how a Lepton struggles show fire and human heat. Presumably the Lepton has a fairly small dynamic range.

When there's something really hot (like fire), the sensor will drop the gain down so it can show the fire without saturating , however it will then lose the sensitivity required to see a human.

The MSX makes up for this by showing the outline of people on the ground, however I'm not sure how well it would work at night.
 
I feel my posts above were rather negative.

The price and portability will still attract many agencies to add one of these to their fleet.

I want to focus my energy on trying to figure out how to maximize the usefulness of these units.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RCdancer
I feel my posts above were rather negative.

The price and portability will still attract many agencies to add one of these to their fleet.

I want to focus my energy on trying to figure out how to maximize the usefulness of these units.

An XT2 with 640 sensor is around $12000 last time I looked. Then you need an M210 and ideally a Z30, so yes the M2ED will have its place. Yes a Boson 320 system would be better but it would be nearly 4000USD, if not more...
 
Why would a FLIR 320 Boson cost thousands when companies such as seek can sell a 320x240 thermal camera for only $500?
Thermal Cameras for your Smartphone
A Boson 320 commercial grade from the UK distributor (AcalBFI) is about £1100 plus VAT.

Whilst the resolution is the same as the Seek product, the Boson has more advanced lenses and some very impressive image processing capabilities, so the image quality is actually a lot better than a Seek Thermal. Bear in mind that the lens makes up a significant % of the cost of a sensor. I don't know if Seek offer their sensor to third parties, and then DJI would have to come up with a suitable lens for it. That's hassle and money.

A Lepton 3.5 is £202 on Digikey.

The other thing is development. As I've said before, I'm pretty sure that DJI and Flir based the M2ED camera off a Flir One so most of the dev work was already done, it just had to be repackaged and then modified to output whatever format the Mavic wants (probably MIPI CSI). With DJI's R&D team of 2500+ people they could probably knock out a prototype in a couple of days. Then just put together a new PCB, sort the firmware, arrange some new gimbal tooling and job done. I highly doubt the hardware of the actual Mavic is changed, but I could be wrong.

For a Boson, they would have to start from scratch with the image processing and enhancement. It's also a physically bigger unit so they would have to make more mods to the gimbal. The theme here is minimising hardware changes.

You also have more data to deal with from a Boson. Whereas a Lepton outputs 8.7fps at 160x120 over SPI (almost insignificant amount of data that you can process with even a mid range microcontroller), the Boson outputs a minimum of 8 bit parallel pixel data and this is a significant amount of data to deal with, especially with the 60Hz units. Which brings me onto my next point...

A Lepton is low end and is available only in 8.7Hz config (30Hz ones exist unofficially), which means there is far less paperwork to worry about when selling to end users. If they used a Boson, they could stick with the 9Hz one sure, but customers would also want the 60Hz option so that creates more headaches for both DJI and dealers.

For us to sell one of our Boson based units to any UK "military entity" (including Police, Coast Guard etc...), the approval process takes 12 weeks. There is also a small list of other countries that one can sell to, and you need approvals for every order.

And again, a Boson based unit would take sales away from the XT2, which isn't a good business strategy.

DJI have done a great job of making an affordable, capable drone with a thermal camera. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, the thermal image quality sucks, but it's a lot better than nothing, and for the extra £700/$700, they will likely sell a lot more of these than normal M2Es.

It still sucks for SAR and surveillance and that's why we're making our Boson based solution :)
 
The M2E dual is a step up in terms of adding a thermal camera (with limited capabilities). It will be useful for inspection purposes, just not for search. However, I don’t see this as a definite upgrade to the regular M2E as it lose the zoom lense (both optical and digital). They should have at least allowed for 3x digital zoom, one this and the normal Mavic 2’s
 
Here's a screen grab from yesterday. My friend in the foreground is about 90 feet from the camera, and the heat signature in the upper left of the image is a person 840ft away(!).

Boson @ 840ft

Boson would more than halve the total time it would take to find a given target in a given area.
 
Thanks for the support Doug.

Until we develop this further, our solution will require some mods to the actual drone, and whilst it would be possible to swap the gimbal out for a normal one it would not be recommended due to having to unplug some small, delicate connectors.

Hopefully there will be little need for this as we are using the original Zoom camera, which has more than sufficient quality for any surveying/public service use.

To be honest, I would discourage swapping the gimbals on any M2 on a regular basis. The connectors and cables are delicate and aren't actually designed to be manipulated multiple times. The flat-flex PCB cables and connectors are only meant for assembly during manufacture, and that's about it.

Anyway, more info is to follow before the new year.

Merry Christmas all :)
I think this is yours...
Found link elsewhere...
Redirect Notice
 
Lycus Tech Mavic Air 3 Case

DJI Drone Deals

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
131,078
Messages
1,559,614
Members
160,061
Latest member
DOM112