Mavic 2 Pro Filter Connection

kilomikebravo · Nov 11, 2018

G: No thanks required, I get way more out of the good folks on this forum than I give so when I actually think I understand something about this expensive toy and I can help someone else get there more quickly, well, that's what places like this are all about.

Anyway..first and foremost...

For VIDEO....keep your shutter speed at double the frame rate and only vary that if it's the last resort, or maybe it ties as the last resort with ISO. The jittering that you see in yours is caused by violating this video principle. So stick to double your frame rate for shutter speed. This is THE most important thing you can do to improve your footage.

For STILLS..Stay at or near f/4 for normal, daylight photography and adjust your shutter speed to get the exposure you want.

BTW, if you haven't read it yet, you can also focus for video with a half press of the right button (I do it between recordings to double check focus.) But, you can't use it during recording or it will stop the vid. (I think)

Back to the ND's..

Based on what i see in your photos, you can probably do pretty well starting with the ND16. Install it then, go outside with it connected to the RC/Go4 and see what ev you get with the lens at f/4. If you have to sneak up a half or even a full stop, the photo will probably be pretty good but always shoot for f/4 or at least that's what I do based on the recommendations of smart folks here in the forum followed by testing them out.

Another thing I want to mention...try a custom "STYLE" not Landscape. Choose the last one, Custom, and in your Custom settings from left to right, try +1 (sharpness) -2 (contrast) and 0 (saturation). These are the numbers I've come to like the best but you can tweak all of them to your own liking. I never shoot in any other Style and IMHO, it is much better than taking the autonomous output from the quad (Landscape, etc.,) and, they can be customized to suit you, not them.

Here is a link to the PDF I made of all (or most perhaps,) of the Go4 Screens so you can see my settings there as well.

Go4 ScreenShots

Very glad you're smiling after a day in the air and hours in front of the confuser. <smiling> Those are the best days for sure.

KB

thegronz · Nov 11, 2018

kilomikebravo said:
G: No thanks required, I get way more out of the good folks on this forum than I give so when I actually think I understand something about this expensive toy and I can help someone else get there more quickly, well, that's what places like this are all about.

Anyway..first and foremost...

For VIDEO....keep your shutter speed at double the frame rate and only vary that if it's the last resort, or maybe it ties as the last resort with ISO. The jittering that you see in yours is caused by violating this video principle. So stick to double your frame rate for shutter speed. This is THE most important thing you can do to improve your footage.

For STILLS..Stay at or near f/4 for normal, daylight photography and adjust your shutter speed to get the exposure you want.

BTW, if you haven't read it yet, you can also focus for video with a half press of the right button (I do it between recordings to double check focus.) But, you can't use it during recording or it will stop the vid. (I think)

Back to the ND's..

Based on what i see in your photos, you can probably do pretty well starting with the ND16. Install it then, go outside with it connected to the RC/Go4 and see what ev you get with the lens at f/4. If you have to sneak up a half or even a full stop, the photo will probably be pretty good but always shoot for f/4 or at least that's what I do based on the recommendations of smart folks here in the forum followed by testing them out.

Another thing I want to mention...try a custom "STYLE" not Landscape. Choose the last one, Custom, and in your Custom settings from left to right, try +1 (sharpness) -2 (contrast) and 0 (saturation). These are the numbers I've come to like the best but you can tweak all of them to your own liking. I never shoot in any other Style and IMHO, it is much better than taking the autonomous output from the quad (Landscape, etc.,) and, they can be customized to suit you, not them.

Here is a link to the PDF I made of all (or most perhaps,) of the Go4 Screens so you can see my settings there as well.

Go4 ScreenShots

Very glad you're smiling after a day in the air and hours in front of the confuser. <smiling> Those are the best days for sure.

KB

Great stuff KB I saved your settings PDF and changing filters and custom settings.

I will post pics and videos and send you a link!

Thanks so much

kilomikebravo · Nov 12, 2018

Very happy to pass on the info I've learned, G. So many folks get these settings way off and then blame the drone so I'm very glad when I can help someone get pack on the path toward better stills and video. It's an incredible piece of technology and when set up correctly, it can produce some amazing results that, IMHO, are WAY beyond the capabilities of the original Mavic.

By simply slowing the shutter speed you've been using down to double your frame rate, shooting for f/4 whenever possible, using the Custom Style settings, and having her wear an ND filter to maintain the optimum shutter speed while still using f/4, will without question give you drastically-improved results for video. Stills are much easier and as long as you ensure that the camera is focused and you're very near f/4, whatever shutter speed is necessary for 0ev will give you some great photos.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with today.

KB

zocalo · Nov 12, 2018

Since we're now talking tips, I thought I'd throw my findings on focus point selection to control depth of field/bokeh with the M2P out there too, especially since the M2P's sensor is just about large enough to do some creative DoF. [Background: There's a little confusion over this, but while smaller sensors offer a LOT of depth of field, they're still not going to give you true critical sharpness from front to back. Any camera, regardless of size, will only be critically sharp at the point of focus - everything else is basically what is "good enough" that you can't tell for a giving image size and viewing distance (read up on "circle of confusion" for all the details). ]

For the best overall sharpness (maximum DoF) you want to be focussed on the hyperfocal point, which is (roughly) 1/3 of the way into a given scene, then stopped down to the point you have infinity focus (which you'll have even at f/2.8 on a 1" sensor). You probably do NOT want to be focussed on the horizon (true infinity) as that will give you (very!) slightly softer foregrounds than the hyperfocal point. I'm also still not 100% certain which of these DJI's use of "Infinity" is actually referring to, hyperfocal or true infinity, but it does seem to be the latter which is worth noting if your foreground is quite close to the camera.

If you want to deliberately try and get soft backgrounds (AKA the bokeh effect), eg. to blur out a cluttered background, then you'll need to choose your focus point and aperture with a little more care. Basically, because of the large DoF offered by the sensor, this means focussing *very* close to the minimum focus distance (1m on the M2P) and using a wider aperture (e.g. f/2.8 or f/3.2), but still keeping your main subject within the area of acceptable sharpness -- typically an AF point range from 1m to 2m will give the best results, and beyond ~3.5m almost everything is going to appear sharp, even at f/2.8.

True selective DoF, e.g. where you have a sharp subject and blurred fore- and backgrounds, isn't really possible with small drones unless your subject is *very* close to the camera (a few metres at most). I'll also point out here that kind of working distance is almost certainly far too close for the comfort of most wildlife, so please keep that in mind! If that is the case though, then it's just about do-able with the M2P, but can require some guesswork (or the help of a DoF calculator) as to where to focus because you will almost certainly need to focus closer than your subject to get a shallow enough DoF while keeping your subject acceptably sharp. Otherwise, its basically the same as above; start with the minimum focusing distance of 1m and slowly work out until you have your subject sharp, then shoot!

thegronz · Nov 12, 2018

KB here are the pictures from today w/ ND16, the Tv is for the shutter speed expressed without the 1/ fraction. I will also send the video links. I found the video to be a bit jumpy at 25 fps vs the 60 fps. here are those links. Please let me know your opinion. Thanks.

J

kilomikebravo · Nov 12, 2018

thegronz said:
KB here are the pictures from today

G: Three clips but no photos? What's up with that?

Videos

I watched all three multiple times and I'm gonna give you my honest opinion...but in a minute. First, we need to work on your joystick control, dude. <smiling>

I know you were just out testing the camera but, if you plan to make publishable videos or even good-quality vids for you or your family, you need to start thinking like a Hollywood cameraman. Years ago when I would try to get a Navy flight student to smooth out his control inputs, I would tell the kid, "No whitecaps on the coffee." They all got the drift. Hey, whiz around at warp speed and spin her, dive her, climb her, I love that stuff. But when you're recording, pretend there's a raw egg balanced on the tops of each of the sticks. I would also suggest you try Tripod Mode via the switch on the side if you haven't already, especially when recording.

Now for my opinion...

First, the exposure looks very good in all of them so the ND16 was the ticket. But, you didn't tell me all the other settings you used...

I will presume ISO of 100
White balance: Auto or Sunny?
Style: The settings I suggested or Standard, Landscape, or Soft?
I presume you used "Normal" for your Color setting

Muis importante, amigo.

For sure you always want AE Lock for video. (But I did see a couple instances of exposure changes that I presume was you tweaking the wheel. That was in 2.8/120)

Both 2.8 clips appear at least a half stop overexposed. The f/4 60 exposure is much better and what I would consider closer to actual conditions. However, that poor camera had that huge glare on the lake to deal with so it was damned if it did and damned if it didn't. Even so, I think it did a fine job in all three.

Before I tell you which clip I like the best let me say something. (I sure like to ramble on, don't I?) <laughing>

We can basically talk about two types of filming here. The high frame rate content like soap operas and the like or, we can talk about low frame rate content like motion pictures which, when you think about it, the name still works after all these years.

I'm the kinda guy who prefers the latter and with that goes a "softer" look. Still sharp when not moving but very noticeable motion blur when moving. (why you see much less blur in the 60fps clips)

OK, as you've probably guessed, I liked the f/4 25 clip the best. Clearly more cinema-like than the 60 clip and not blown out like some parts of both the 2.8's. But once again, this situation shows two different people observing two different phenomena. You feel the slower frame rate clip is more jittery and I'm just the opposite and can definitely see jitters in the 60 clip that I do not see in the f/4 25 clip. But I gotta tell ya bro, all the moving and spinning about made me dizzy.) <smile> And I flew airplanes for a living. <really laughing now>

MOST importantly though, 1) did you have a blast? and 2) How do YOU feel about the video you got other than the jerkiness you mentioned? Sure, the opinions of others certainly matter but when it comes down to taste, it's all about the filmmaker and what he/she likes.

Do give Tripod mode a try and get out there and practice nice, slow, steady figure eights around a couple rocks, balls, trashcan lids, whatever you have that will serve as a couple Home Plates in a nice, big, open area. <smile> (But steer clear of poured concrete whenever you can. Your cul-de-sac looks asphalt, (or the cul-de-sac in the clip, anyway.) Ditto for any, large metal objects, electrical poles/wires, etc. A compass error can be deadly and I almost learned the hard way the second time I flew mine.)

Now, let's see some photos which I hope you shot in RAW.

KB

thegronz · Nov 12, 2018

Sorry here is the link to the photos: test pics - Google Drive

The joystick issue, I was just taking her up there to get the photos and video. I'm getting pretty good with the cinematography; I was in a hurry to test these settings. I'll read the rest of your comments in a minute.

thegronz · Nov 12, 2018

kilomikebravo said:
G: Three clips but no photos? What's up with that?

Videos

I watched all three multiple times and I'm gonna give you my honest opinion...but in a minute. First, we need to work on your joystick control, dude. <smiling>

I know you were just out testing the camera but, if you plan to make publishable videos or even good-quality vids for you or your family, you need to start thinking like a Hollywood cameraman. Years ago when I would try to get a Navy flight student to smooth out his control inputs, I would tell the kid, "No whitecaps on the coffee." They all got the drift. Hey, whiz around at warp speed and spin her, dive her, climb her, I love that stuff. But when you're recording, pretend there's a raw egg balanced on the tops of each of the sticks. I would also suggest you try Tripod Mode via the switch on the side if you haven't already, especially when recording.

Now for my opinion...

First, the exposure looks very good in all of them so the ND16 was the ticket. But, you didn't tell me all the other settings you used...

I will presume ISO of 100
White balance: Auto or Sunny?
Style: The settings I suggested or Standard, Landscape, or Soft?
I presume you used "Normal" for your Color setting

Muis importante, amigo.

For sure you always want AE Lock for video. (But I did see a couple instances of exposure changes that I presume was you tweaking the wheel. That was in 2.8/120)

Both 2.8 clips appear at least a half stop overexposed. The f/4 60 exposure is much better and what I would consider closer to actual conditions. However, that poor camera had that huge glare on the lake to deal with so it was damned if it did and damned if it didn't. Even so, I think it did a fine job in all three.

Before I tell you which clip I like the best let me say something. (I sure like to ramble on, don't I?) <laughing>

We can basically talk about two types of filming here. The high frame rate content like soap operas and the like or, we can talk about low frame rate content like motion pictures which, when you think about it, the name still works after all these years.

I'm the kinda guy who prefers the latter and with that goes a "softer" look. Still sharp when not moving but very noticeable motion blur when moving. (why you see much less blur in the 60fps clips)

OK, as you've probably guessed, I liked the f/4 25 clip the best. Clearly more cinema-like than the 60 clip and not blown out like some parts of both the 2.8's. But once again, this situation shows two different people observing two different phenomena. You feel the slower frame rate clip is more jittery and I'm just the opposite and can definitely see jitters in the 60 clip that I do not see in the f/4 25 clip. But I gotta tell ya bro, all the moving and spinning about made me dizzy.) <smile> And I flew airplanes for a living. <really laughing now>

MOST importantly though, 1) did you have a blast? and 2) How do YOU feel about the video you got other than the jerkiness you mentioned? Sure, the opinions of others certainly matter but when it comes down to taste, it's all about the filmmaker and what he/she likes.

Do give Tripod mode a try and get out there and practice nice, slow, steady figure eights around a couple rocks, balls, trashcan lids, whatever you have that will serve as a couple Home Plates in a nice, big, open area. <smile> (But steer clear of poured concrete whenever you can. Your cul-de-sac looks asphalt, (or the cul-de-sac in the clip, anyway.) Ditto for any, large metal objects, electrical poles/wires, etc. A compass error can be deadly and I almost learned the hard way the second time I flew mine.)

Now, let's see some photos which I hope you shot in RAW.

KB

Yes I read your entire post and some very good info, I agree I should have used this as practice, though I don't want a boo boo over the water. I also heard that if I get too close, the reflective surface can screw with the controls. These are the best shoots in the neighborhood. None the less I need to go to a field and practice some cinematic shooting I used to fly the Blade drones without any GPS and I can draw figure 8's etc. Everytime I start to have fun I crash. I went through 2 Mavics, and two Phantoms; all from playing around. The air disturbance really affects the flight and almost creates a vacuum affect if I fly too close to trees. I've list drones in trees, clipped palms... you name it. All pilot error.

I shoot mostly homes for real estate agents, so it usually is a 1 minute video that is splices with a pan of the front, then if the neighborhood is nice, I will circle the property and at some point enlarge the radius for a nice effect. I am trying to find more creative ways to showcase a home. Any ideas?

Thanks again for all your help KB.

J

The settings were ISO 100 Camera settings custom per your instructions I believe -1 on saturation, and +1 on contrast?. I used the auto white balance since it was a sunny day. will concrete affect the compass?

kilomikebravo · Nov 12, 2018

thegronz said:
Sorry here is the link to the photos:

G: Just took a close look at all four images and personally, I think the f/4/60 has the best, most natural exposure. f/5/60 is way too contrasty but the exposure is only slightly overexposed. f/5/50 also, in my opinion, needs a contrast reduction.

You didn't say whether or not you left the ND16 on the lens but based on these exposures, I'm guessing that you did.

Take a minute next time and grab a notebook and pen to take with ya. Then, write down all the camera settings as I mentioned before so we can all be on the same sheet of music so to speak.

Keep up the good work, amigo..

KB

kilomikebravo · Nov 12, 2018

thegronz said:
will concrete affect the compass?

Forgot to answer that one with a GREAT BIG YES!

I learned the hard way thinking the M2 solid state compass wouldn't be affected but I suppose it's because my only other experience has been with more sophisticated compass systems (but to my best recollection, my MP never had a compass issue when using concrete.) Strange.

What I learned from some very knowledgeable people here is to orient the Mavic in a magnetic direction that you know, say due North for your takeoff position, and then before or right after you takeoff, double check the radar display to ensure that the drone's "magnetic heading" is in fact correct. If it is not, never takeoff or come right home because without correct compass info, there could be a high probability that you won't get her back, especially if she manifests the compass error when she's any distance away. Steer clear of poured concrete roads, sidewalks, and driveways or even runways for that matter.

I see you mentioned your custom SCS settings, great but when you get a minute, how about the other info, OK?

KB

thegronz · Nov 12, 2018

kilomikebravo said:
G: Just took a close look at all four images and personally, I think the f/4/60 has the best, most natural exposure. f/5/60 is way too contrasty but the exposure is only slightly overexposed. f/5/50 also, in my opinion, needs a contrast reduction.

You didn't say whether or not you left the ND16 on the lens but based on these exposures, I'm guessing that you did.

Take a minute next time and grab a notebook and pen to take with ya. Then, write down all the camera settings as I mentioned before so we can all be on the same sheet of music so to speak.

Keep up the good work, amigo..

KB

Will do with the note pad, I did leave the filter on. Amazing how we got the shutter down from 1/2000 from yesterday! Yes the f4 was as sharp as the f2.8. I tried f3.5 today and it looked real good as well. I think for what I am doing I will target f3.5-f4.0

Thanks again KB

thegronz · Nov 14, 2018

kilomikebravo said:
Forgot to answer that one with a GREAT BIG YES!

I learned the hard way thinking the M2 solid state compass wouldn't be affected but I suppose it's because my only other experience has been with more sophisticated compass systems (but to my best recollection, my MP never had a compass issue when using concrete.) Strange.

What I learned from some very knowledgeable people here is to orient the Mavic in a magnetic direction that you know, say due North for your takeoff position, and then before or right after you takeoff, double check the radar display to ensure that the drone's "magnetic heading" is in fact correct. If it is not, never takeoff or come right home because without correct compass info, there could be a high probability that you won't get her back, especially if she manifests the compass error when she's any distance away. Steer clear of poured concrete roads, sidewalks, and driveways or even runways for that matter.

I see you mentioned your custom SCS settings, great but when you get a minute, how about the other info, OK?

KB