Mavic 2 pro range photo - 6 kilometers = 3.72 mile

[Chicago VisionAiry]

I could not agree more. For any drone pilot, pro or recreational to fly so recklessly is a stain on is all. Everyone... put yourself in the situation, where your drone is miles away, at some high altitude, in clouds where they are strictly forbidden, and a plane strikes it causing it to crash. Do you want that blood on your hands?! Do I sound over dramatic... no. Because it is bound to happen. And if I and others who agree with me can help convince foolish pilots from venturing BVLOS, than this forum is doing a great service. Fly safe people.

 

[mfc]

What is the fascination with flying so far?! You do know the rule, right... keep it within visual line of sight. That does not mean looking in the general direction of where it flew, but being able to actually see it. I know I can't see my MP2 any farther than 1200',

Question: I can see my Mavic Pro (against the sky) at 900+ metres distance (measured using the GPX track afterwards) and at at least 400 metres against a dark (trees, cliff) background with strobe on the rear. Was the 1200 feet against a dark background?

 

[Patrick T.]

What is the fascination with flying so far?! You do know the rule, right... keep it within visual line of sight. That does not mean looking in the general direction of where it flew, but being able to actually see it. I know I can't see my MP2 any farther than 1200',

I fly VLOS and did a test on how far I could go til I lost vision on my Mavic 2 and flew a little over 3000 ft but that was also keep on eye on the drone and not turn away from it cause if you look another way you can easily lose site of it

 

[USMC0351]

I could not agree more. For any drone pilot, pro or recreational to fly so recklessly is a stain on is all. Everyone... put yourself in the situation, where your drone is miles away, at some high altitude, in clouds where they are strictly forbidden, and a plane strikes it causing it to crash. Do you want that blood on your hands?! Do I sound over dramatic... no. Because it is bound to happen. And if I and others who agree with me can help convince foolish pilots from venturing BVLOS, than this forum is doing a great service. Fly safe people.

Extremely overdramatic.

 

[apeel]

I fly VLOS and did a test on how far I could go til I lost vision on my Mavic 2 and flew a little over 3000 ft but that was also keep on eye on the drone and not turn away from it cause if you look another way you can easily lose site of it

I am surprised that one could keep VLOS out to that distance, even under ideal conditions. However it is really not practical to consider this distance at all since nobody flies without ever glancing down at the display or controller for a brief moment, enough to lose sight and be unable to see it again. Hence VLOS is much, much less than this the distance referred to here.

 

[Endeavor]

Very valid point Chicago, but is he really any more guilty than 90% of most drone pilots? ( I made the 90% up! I actually have no idea). Regardless I totally agree with you. I don’t see the need to fly 3 or 4 miles away. Although I guess it’s nice to know you have that capability under the right circumstances.

I would lean more towards 98% but I do agree flying miles away seems risky and irresponsible. However I disagree with the whole VLOS nonsense as virtually all my flights are done via screen not watching the bird.

 

[mfc]

I am surprised that one could keep VLOS out to that distance, even under ideal conditions. However it is really not practical to consider this distance at all since nobody flies without ever glancing down at the display or controller for a brief moment, enough to lose sight and be unable to see it again. Hence VLOS is much, much less than this the distance referred to here.

I have to disagree .. at 900m away (around 3000') I find it easy to pick up the drone again after glancing down since it moves very little (in an angular sense), especially if travelling away from me. It might be trickier if it is moving left/right, but one can always stop it before that glance down. It also helps if there are reference points around (mountains, etc.), but VLOS at 900m is definitely possible: I've done it several times. (I have corrected vision [glasses] but by eyesight isn't perfect; on the other hand as a one-time pilot I may have had more practice than some at spotting small dots in the air.)

 

[Steve_UK]

People posting 7km videos to prove they are amazing will only get a 500m limit on VLOS restriction.

Indeed; as we already have in the UK of course.

 

[mfc]

Indeed; as we already have in the UK of course.

"Of course"? There's nothing in the Drone Code or regulations about a 500m limit on VLOS (though I have seen some recommendations to consider that as a rule of thumb).

My 900m VLOS flights were both in Spain, as it happens, flying up the side of a mountain to check for cave entrances (at furthest 900m away from me and 400m above me, but only 80m above/away from the mountainside, and no people or buildings within 1km other than me and my companion (who was also ensuring the VLOS)).

 

[Steve_UK]

"Of course"? There's nothing in the Drone Code or regulations about a 500m limit on VLOS (though I have seen some recommendations to consider that as a rule of thumb).

My 900m VLOS flights were both in Spain, as it happens, flying up the side of a mountain to check for cave entrances (at furthest 900m away from me and 400m above me, but only 80m above/away from the mountainside, and no people or buildings within 1km other than me and my companion (who was also ensuring the VLOS)).

Unfortunately the Drone Code is not the law (similar to the UK Highway Code). Take a look at CAP 722 3.6.1 - page 47.

Quote "Within the UK, VLOS operations are normally accepted out to a maximum distance of 500 metres horizontally from the remote pilot, but only if the aircraft can still be seen at this distance."

CAP 722: Unmanned Aircraft System Operations in UK Airspace - Guidance

Please find below details of the CAA Publication you have selected. Dependent on availability, you are able to download the file, or purchase a printed copy.

publicapps.caa.co.uk

 

[mfc]

Unfortunately the Drone Code is not the law (similar to the UK Highway Code). Take a look at CAP 722 3.6.1 - page 47.

Quote "Within the UK, VLOS operations are normally accepted out to a maximum distance of 500 metres horizontally from the remote pilot, but only if the aircraft can still be seen at this distance."

Firstly, that section is referring to commercial operations (which indeed are not covered by the Drone Code) , and secondly that same paragraph goes on to say: "Operations at a greater distance from the remote pilot may be permitted if an acceptable safety case is submitted. For example, if the aircraft is large it may be justifiable that its flight path can be monitored visually at a greater distance than 500 metres. Conversely, for some small aircraft, operations out to a distance of 500 metres may mean it is not possible to assure or maintain adequate visual contact, and so the aircraft must obviously be kept closer to the remote pilot."

This section does not cover non-commercial operations -- for which no safety case is required and for which the rule is simply that you can see it (with the 'naked eye', with spectacles/corrections allowed). I suppose that technically the term 'VLOS' should only be applied to commercial operations.

The ANO 2016 article 94(3) simply says "(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.", with no mention of distance -- and I don't think that was amended in the 2018 No. 623 changes, which were all about registration, tighter control of flying near airports, etc.

In short, if you can see it (and comply with all the other rules!), you are legal.

Mike

 

[Steve_UK]

Not really "just for commercial operations" though. The Drone Code says to fly within VLOS but does not define it. The Air Navigation Order (which applies to recreational as well as commercial flights) does not define it.

CAP 722 is guidance issued by the CAA which gives the "official position" on things such as defining VLOS.

I think you would be hard-pushed to convince the CAA/Police/Magistrate etc. that flying a small UAV more than 500m distant was within VLOS. Especially if you bear in mind that VLOS does not mean simply being able to see a flashing light on the aircraft; you need to be able to judge the position, attitude and heading of the aircraft in order to have proper control.

 

[mfc]

I think you would be hard-pushed to convince the CAA/Police/Magistrate etc. that flying a small UAV more than 500m distant was within VLOS. Especially if you bear in mind that VLOS does not mean simply being able to see a flashing light on the aircraft; you need to be able to judge the position, attitude and heading of the aircraft in order to have proper control.

Maybe we are splitting hairs, here, but the ANO is quite precise about the requirement: "... sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions." I am certain that I complied with that in the 900m+ line-of-sight case I described (and that was in Spain, in any case). I also agree that 500m is a good rule-of-thumb for more difficult visibility/conditions, and of course it might be much, much, less if it's misty, or flying near [towards] the sun, etc.

[The strobe issue is perhaps a different discussion .. if you have just the one strobe, typically affixed to the rear of the craft so as to not affect the camera, then that tells you the position, attitude and heading of the craft better than just seeing the black dot of the craft without the strobe.]

As for convincing the CAA/Police/Magistrates, etc., given there have been airprox reports of pilots spotting drones at more than 1km distance on their approach to airports, is that not sufficient evidence that 500m is not a top limit? In short, why are you saying that 500m is a maximum when there is plenty of evidence that some people can see their drones at a distance greater than that? I know I have been able to; have you actually tried it?

 

[Steve_UK]

Maybe we are splitting hairs, here, but the ANO is quite precise about the requirement: "... sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions." I am certain that I complied with that in the 900m+ line-of-sight case I described (and that was in Spain, in any case). I also agree that 500m is a good rule-of-thumb for more difficult visibility/conditions, and of course it might be much, much, less if it's misty, or flying near [towards] the sun, etc.

[The strobe issue is perhaps a different discussion .. if you have just the one strobe, typically affixed to the rear of the craft so as to not affect the camera, then that tells you the position, attitude and heading of the craft better than just seeing the black dot of the craft without the strobe.]

As for convincing the CAA/Police/Magistrates, etc., given there have been airprox reports of pilots spotting drones at more than 1km distance on their approach to airports, is that not sufficient evidence that 500m is not a top limit? In short, why are you saying that 500m is a maximum when there is plenty of evidence that some people can see their drones at a distance greater than that? I know I have been able to; have you actually tried it?

I guess hairs are indeed being split here. I still doubt that at 500m, let alone 900m, you can visually check the heading of the craft without reference to the controller's display which, by the letter of the ANO, you should surely be able to do? I have to say that I am quite happy that these things are not necessarily tied down definitively in the legislation. If they had to really define every last aspect I am sure the regulations would end up being very much more proscriptive than they currently are.

I imagine however that the only time this would become an issue would be if there were some incident being investigated by the authorities. In that event, if you could convince (demonstrate?) you had true VLOS at any distance, and hence complied with the ANO, you would be in the clear on that aspect.

Have I actually tried it? Let's just say that I appreciate how easy it is to go out further than you realise!

 

[mfc]

I think we are in violent agreement, here . Not clear to me that I need to know exactly the heading of the craft .. it is staying visually at the same spot or moving (slowly at that distance) left or right and/or up and down. But as long as there are no other aircraft, people, etc., in sight it's somewhat academic.

Indeed it is easy to go out further than you realise .. after an 'interesting' microlight flight I learned to always fly upwind if possible; good advice for drone pilots, too!

Have a good rest-of-the-weekend, and thanks for making me double-check my assumptions.

Mike

 

[Steve_UK]

I think we are in violent agreement, here . Not clear to me that I need to know exactly the heading of the craft .. it is staying visually at the same spot or moving (slowly at that distance) left or right and/or up and down. But as long as there are no other aircraft, people, etc., in sight it's somewhat academic.

Indeed it is easy to go out further than you realise .. after an 'interesting' microlight flight I learned to always fly upwind if possible; good advice for drone pilots, too!

Have a good rest-of-the-weekend, and thanks for making me double-check my assumptions.

Mike

Let's face it, in most situations whereby you need to take avoiding action with a UAV, you will be dropping altitude rather than weaving all over the sky! In which case your heading is not of very much consequence.

Have a good one yourself Mike.

Steve

 

[GadgetGuy]

Community Rules:

15. The Community Owners strongly encourage users to obey all federal and local laws and regulations when flying. It is a helpful service to the community when members guide others in understanding and following the regulations. Meanwhile, fully understanding all international rules and regulations is complex and it is not the responsibility of the community owners, moderators or community members to police and enforce these rules and regulations. Any violation of another community rule, even if in the context of attempting to help enforce flying laws and regulations, is prohibited.

 

[Bob4131]

Sorry @Zeljkobn but a range test still does not make it legal. The end does NOT justify the means. You could technically do a range test legally by simply having someone take the drone far away and see if you can still control it while it is on the ground. Flying beyond VLOS is dangerous as you cannot tell if something is nearby (like a small plane or helicopter).

The reason people are getting upset with this type of behavior is that there are a lot of people looking to put limits on what we can do as recreational fliers. In the USA there is now regulation being considered to make sure that drones and operators will be forced to identify themselves. This will make flying drones that do not have this feature of Remote ID illegal to fly here in the future so our drones today will not be permitted to fly. Also, it will become more difficult to fly in rural areas where internet service is not available.

I realize that you are from Bosnia but this is an international forum and we all have regulations to follow. I know of no place that allows you to fly beyond VLOS. So, rather than giving people a bunch of ??? why not show some respect for the rules. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, then please do NOT post videos that show you breaking the rules. It is not helpful.

I totally agree one should follow all laws regarding drone use. But I do not feel I need to follow Canadian laws in the US, for example.
In Bosnia, there is no drone law prohibiting flying beyond VLOS. To argue he should follow US law seems a bit strange. I think it fair to encourage that practice as comman sense for safe flying but demanding he follow another nation's law does not seem an effective argument.
Does that make sense? I agree with your goal but not your argument to convince the OP.

 

[apeel]

I totally agree one should follow all laws regarding drone use. But I do not feel I need to follow Canadian laws in the US, for example.
In Bosnia, there is no drone law prohibiting flying beyond VLOS. To argue he should follow US law seems a bit strange. I think it fair to encourage that practice as comman sense for safe flying but demanding he follow another nation's law does not seem an effective argument.
Does that make sense? I agree with your goal but not your argument to convince the OP.

I agree with you with all you have said @Bob4131 , but ASSUMING your facts are correct. I did not mean to imply that someone in Bosnia should be constrained by USA rules (or viz versa). Someone else had 'speculated' that there may not be any VLOS rules in Bosnia, but I do not recall anyone saying that they knew there are no such rules in Bosnia. As I said, I find it doubtful that no such rules would exist, as UAS flying cannot be safe without them. I certainly did not want to try to research Bosnia rules any further (since it would not apply to me anyway). That said, I do find it somewhat hard to believe that there are no rules of this sort in Bosnia. If that is true, remind me to not take any airplane flights though Bosnia. Also, I found that the original poster never personally stated that there is no VLOS rule in Bosnia, he simply re-iterated that he was not pleased with my criticism and that "it was just a range test". Makes me wonder if he / she is even aware of any such rules in Bosnia or not?

 

[Bob4131]

I agree with you with all you have said @Bob4131 , but ASSUMING your facts are correct. I did not mean to imply that someone in Bosnia should be constrained by USA rules (or viz versa). Someone else had 'speculated' that there may not be any VLOS rules in Bosnia, but I do not recall anyone saying that they knew there are no such rules in Bosnia. As I said, I find it doubtful that no such rules would exist, as UAS flying cannot be safe without them. I certainly did not want to try to research Bosnia rules any further (since it would not apply to me anyway). That said, I do find it somewhat hard to believe that there are no rules of this sort in Bosnia. If that is true, remind me to not take any airplane flights though Bosnia. Also, I found that the original poster never personally stated that there is no VLOS rule in Bosnia, he simply re-iterated that he was not pleased with my criticism and that "it was just a range test". Makes me wonder if he / she is even aware of any such rules in Bosnia or not?

I did a Google search and multiple web sites all state there are no drone laws - period - in Bosnia. I have no personal experience regarding Bosnia, but I know of other countries that have no drone laws or regulations. A small country with a small government may not generate laws and regulations covering everything in life but has the assumption that one should just use comman sense. I doubt drones are flooding the skies there, so creating drone regulations is probably not a high priority. ? Happy flying.