Mavic 3 domestic prices out

[Droniac]

I've spent more on other hobbies - I still might buy after seeing some reviews.

My issue is not as much the money as what I’m getting for it and maybe sheepish but I never got hurt watching for a bit. I feel like I’d be the buffer between the cost from lack of chip shortages, etc. I’m also aware they’re a business dealing with p/l etc. and has to consider the bottom line. That’s a mighty potent abacus they’re using IMO. It irks me. I wanna see functionally if it’s truly better than applesauce and sliced bread too. On the other hand I could be in an utter state of denial. Godspeed, Droniac

 

[Droniac]

I'm not sure if I agree with that assessment. A 4/3 sensor is a huge upgrade from the 1" sensor that I don't think everyone understands or appreciates. Image sensors are also very expensive, and cost goes up exponentially with size. Lenses have to be larger to accommodate the larger image circle, which means more glass and more complicated lens designs. On top of that you are getting a second camera with a 1/2" sensor (larger than the M2Z main sensor).

I don't think they are going to lose any customers, I suspect the M3 will be so popular it will be difficult to buy for several months after announcement, especially with current global shortages.

If you think the M3 is overpriced, you probably aren't it's target market and are likely better served by one of the existing drones (I don't mean that in a negative way at all). For someone looking to get a 4/3 sensor in the air with high framerates, it's a bargain relative to anything else on the market currently. If someone isn't excited by that or doesn't need that, then it probably isn't a worthwhile purchase for their particular usage. The biggest win for the market is probably the Air 2S that is only $999 (~$500 less than the M2P at launch). When the M4 is on the horizon, you will probably see M3 tech trickle down into the Air lineup - it's never cheap to stay on the cutting edge. Also, as you already mentioned, many will be buying this drone for business where cost is largely irrelevant.

Lucid thinking. I believe you’ve closed the matter imo. Spot on. Godspeed, Droniac

 

[Droniac]

That is highly flawed and even non-sensical thinking. According to your logic, Tesla would only produce the Model X and sell it for $125K at maximum per-unit profit and forget about the Model 3 or model S since those are cheap units that don't generate cash flow. Apple would only sell the flagship iPhone for $1400 and offer no other models year to year. Makes no sense.

Besides, you contradict yourself when you readily admit DJI will likely sell a lot more A2S because of the high price of the M3. But if you were in charge, why even bother since they are making so little profit on the A2S?



To be fair, I haven't personally tested the Autel Evo II 8K but there are reputable retailers like B&H Photo who have reviewed it and like it a lot. Seen a lot of Amazon customer reviews to the same effect. You seem to be putting a high-end bias viewpoint on the current state of 8K drone sensors and that doesn't serve the hobbyist market very well. If you intend your comments for only the high-end commercial market, then it makes more sense.



We could argue about this for days but I'm already seeing sub-$3000 8K sets at Best Buy and I would imagine at that price point and in the coming years they will sell a ton of units. Netflix is rumored to be offering 8K movies in 2022 so that would be a powerful driver of TV sales.



Neither one of us can claim victory on this argument because neither of us works in the accounting department of DJI and have full access to their balance sheets when it comes to various models of drones they sell. Gut feeling tells me they will regret losing out on the $1200-$2000 market when they drop the M2Z and

That is highly flawed and even non-sensical thinking. According to your logic, Tesla would only produce the Model X and sell it for $125K at maximum per-unit profit and forget about the Model 3 or model S since those are cheap units that don't generate cash flow. Apple would only sell the flagship iPhone for $1400 and offer no other models year to year. Makes no sense.

Besides, you contradict yourself when you readily admit DJI will likely sell a lot more A2S because of the high price of the M3. But if you were in charge, why even bother since they are making so little profit on the A2S?



To be fair, I haven't personally tested the Autel Evo II 8K but there are reputable retailers like B&H Photo who have reviewed it and like it a lot. Seen a lot of Amazon customer reviews to the same effect. You seem to be putting a high-end bias viewpoint on the current state of 8K drone sensors and that doesn't serve the hobbyist market very well. If you intend your comments for only the high-end commercial market, then it makes more sense.



We could argue about this for days but I'm already seeing sub-$3000 8K sets at Best Buy and I would imagine at that price point and in the coming years they will sell a ton of units. Netflix is rumored to be offering 8K movies in 2022 so that would be a powerful driver of TV sales.



Neither one of us can claim victory on this argument because neither of us works in the accounting department of DJI and have full access to their balance sheets when it comes to various models of drones they sell. Gut feeling tells me they will regret losing out on the $1200-$2000 market when they drop the M2Z and M2P.

Also, point taken. Although I feel mildly dizzy. Gotta chew on this a bit.

 

[Johnmcl7]

Here's a comparison between an RX100 mk II (which uses a BSI sensor the same as the M2P, the mk IV onwards use stacked sensors) an Olympus m4/3 and just for interest an APS-C camera:

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 II vs Sony A6300 vs Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II | DXOMARK

www.dxomark.com

My main interest is the dynamic range which the 1in sensor is a massive improvement on the 1/2.3in sensors but it's only around half a stop better on the 4/3 sensor.

I'm not saying it's overpriced though as I think the prices suggested so far seem reasonable for the technology.

 

[Deleted member 77603]

Yeah it’ll be interesting to see the raw files. I don’t really care about breathless youtube reviews in all caps, i want to see the images at dusk and dawn on my own screen. Now given, my other camera is a Gfx100s.

 

[wco81]

That's the one thing. Did Sony ever make MFT sensors? They supply most of everything, from phones to high end pro cameras.

I know that they had 1-inch sensor cameras for compacts and then went straight to APS-C, while still producing cameras which were smaller and lighters than some of the MFT cameras from Olympus and Panasonic.

 

[Johnmcl7]

That's the one thing. Did Sony ever make MFT sensors? They supply most of everything, from phones to high end pro cameras.

I know that they had 1-inch sensor cameras for compacts and then went straight to APS-C, while still producing cameras which were smaller and lighters than some of the MFT cameras from Olympus and Panasonic.

Yes, you're quite right Sony manufacture a wide range of sensors and they currently produce them for Olympus and Panasonic (Panasonic have made a number of 4/3 sensors as well) so I'd expect the Mavic 3 is using a Sony 4/3 sensor as well.

 

[CanadaDrone]

That's the one thing. Did Sony ever make MFT sensors? They supply most of everything, from phones to high end pro cameras.

I know that they had 1-inch sensor cameras for compacts and then went straight to APS-C, while still producing cameras which were smaller and lighters than some of the MFT cameras from Olympus and Panasonic.

All the sensors are actually 4/3, the "micro" (M) part of the name just refers to a particular lens mount size rather than the sensor itself. Olympus and Panasonic mirrorless cameras use that mount, along with several others, mostly in the video industry.

Sony is currently the only manufacturer of 4/3 sensors since Panasonic sold their sensor business in 2019. Prior to this, Panasonic did fab some of their own sensors for their camera lineups.

I guessing (and hoping) that they will just use the Sony IMX272 which is the 20MP 4/3 sensor used in the Panasonic GH5 & G9 for example. It is an excellent sensor for this type of application, and it's not a stacked sensor so it's not going to be super expensive. Historically, DJI has bought "off the shelf" sensors from Sony, so they will probably do it again.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Here's a comparison between an RX100 mk II (which uses a BSI sensor the same as the M2P, the mk IV onwards use stacked sensors) an Olympus m4/3 and just for interest an APS-C camera:

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 II vs Sony A6300 vs Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II | DXOMARK

www.dxomark.com

My main interest is the dynamic range which the 1in sensor is a massive improvement on the 1/2.3in sensors but it's only around half a stop better on the 4/3 sensor.

I'm not saying it's overpriced though as I think the prices suggested so far seem reasonable for the technology.

Above base ISO, it's significantly better. Still not earth-shattering, but it should be a noticeable improvement, more so for lower light work. It's also a little tricky because native base ISO on the Sony 1" sensors is all 125, and the 4/3 sensors usually use a base ISO of 200.

DXO's measurements don't get a lot of love from the photographic community and many people disagree with their arbitrary "scores". If you look at the actual data they collect behind those summarized scores though, it can be more useful.

This is better data than DXO, they are similar but this is more accurate if you're looking at DR specifically:

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

And this gives us some insight into ISO performance, assuming they use that sensor or one similar to it, but it's not as useful for a direct comparison:

Read Noise in DNs versus ISO Setting

 

[mschaffer66]

I'm kinda surprised that none of these have popped up on a Best Buy shelf or on Amazon or something yet.

Do you think that maybe the only way to get one at first will be DJI and select retailers(not the big box stores)?

 

[Johnmcl7]

Above base ISO, it's significantly better. Still not earth-shattering, but it should be a noticeable improvement, more so for lower light work. It's also a little tricky because native base ISO on the Sony 1" sensors is all 125, and the 4/3 sensors usually use a base ISO of 200.

DXO's measurements don't get a lot of love from the photographic community and many people disagree with their arbitrary "scores". If you look at the actual data they collect behind those summarized scores though, it can be more useful.

This is better data than DXO, they are similar but this is more accurate if you're looking at DR specifically:

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

And this gives us some insight into ISO performance, assuming they use that sensor or one similar to it, but it's not as useful for a direct comparison:

Read Noise in DNs versus ISO Setting

I agree about the dxomark data but it's difficult to capture accurate comparisons in numbers. The original comments were based on actual micro 4/3 output and the improvement isn't as big as I expected which highlighted I'm a bit out of date with 4/3, although Sony have made sensors for the standard it doesn't seem to be much of a focus for them understandably with it being a slower market.

I'll definitely have a good look at the raw files when available and make a decision from there.

 

[CanadaDrone]

I'm kinda surprised that none of these have popped up on a Best Buy shelf or on Amazon or something yet.

Do you think that maybe the only way to get one at first will be DJI and select retailers(not the big box stores)?

Depends what DJI has planned for launch availability. Any physical store that is going to sell them right at launch day will have to receive them some time prior, and the store won't be allowed to sell them until a certain date/time - this isn't always followed though haha. Or maybe availability will be limited and DJI will just sell through their own store for the first little while. Hard to say, but anyone working at one of these stores could probably confirm. I would guess they will have limited stock at physical stores but that is pure speculation on my part based on prior launches.

That guy from France claims to have received one quite a while ago but I have no idea if that was real or not.

 

[Coskier]

I'm kinda surprised that none of these have popped up on a Best Buy shelf or on Amazon or something yet.

Do you think that maybe the only way to get one at first will be DJI and select retailers(not the big box stores)?

Calling Best Buy to see if they will have them tonight.

 

[CanadaDrone]

I agree about the dxomark data but it's difficult to capture accurate comparisons in numbers. The original comments were based on actual micro 4/3 output and the improvement isn't as big as I expected which highlighted I'm a bit out of date with 4/3, although Sony have made sensors for the standard it doesn't seem to be much of a focus for them understandably with it being a slower market.

I'll definitely have a good look at the raw files when available and make a decision from there.

If they end up using that sensor, here is the data sheet on it if you're curious:

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX272AQK_Flyer.pdf

And existing RAW file comparisons can be found here for the cameras already using the sensors being discussed:

Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.

www.dpreview.com

 

[Coskier]

Calling Best Buy to see if they will have them tonight.

They can't see them in their system yet.

 

[mschaffer66]

They can't see them in their system yet.

I tried calling our local BB and it just went to some national system. I'm wondering if showing up in store in person would be better.

 

[CanadaDrone]

I tried calling our local BB and it just went to some national system. I'm wondering if showing up in store in person would be better.

You might have better luck calling a smaller, private store. They probably know if anyone is getting them, even if they aren't, and would probably be more likely to tell you something like "we have them, but aren't allowed to sell them yet". I've run into this a lot with other products, usually DSLRs.

You'll also know right away at launch because places like B&H will have pre-order links up if they are going to get them.

This suggests at least some retailers are getting them right away:

DJI Resellers Are Receiving The Mavic 3 En Masse And Sharing Photos Online

Official DJI resellers are receiving the DJI Mavic 3 en masse and are sharing photos of the boxes that contain the new DJI drone online.

dronexl.co

 

[Johnmcl7]

If they end up using that sensor, here is the data sheet on it if you're curious:

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX272AQK_Flyer.pdf

And existing RAW file comparisons can be found here for the cameras already using the sensors being discussed:

Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.

www.dpreview.com

I find the raw files of the Mavic 2 pro to be noticeably different to the RX100 equivalent hence why I'm keen to see the actual raw files from the drone.

 

[Johnmcl7]

I'm kinda surprised that none of these have popped up on a Best Buy shelf or on Amazon or something yet.

Do you think that maybe the only way to get one at first will be DJI and select retailers(not the big box stores)?

It's usually DJI first for their products at least here in the UK.

 

[RonBower]

This thread has made me realize I don’t much about sensors! Other than how big they are. I guess, at the end of the day, the metric that counts is the quality of what the combination of the camera processor + the sensor can produce. And we won’t be able to analyze that until early buyers get photos to us.