Mavic 3 Range Test (NO VIDEO Provided due to legalities). 4.55 miles (24,000) ft. Limited by battery. 18% battery at home return.

[SkyeHigh]

Flying outside the rules doesn't mean you are flying recklessly.

Drones are over regulated not for safety, but for money, because accessing chunks of the <120m airspace is going to cost a fortune to the big companies that pretend to fly their autonomous BVLOS drones.

In the end everything is always about money, you don't pay, you are kicked out from the sky, that's how it works.

Accepting all the rules as they come (luckly enough some people fought RID, and now it works locally and not online, as was initially intended), is what has brought us to the present. Drones being dangerous is a myth and a lie, just promoted to get the <120m airspace clear.

Drones are one of the safest hobby around and yet, we are constantly criminalized even within the hobby, 1.3 million people die each year in the world due to traffic accidents, and it's considered normal and nobody cares about it. 0 people have died in the world since the quad initial boom in 2010 by a drone accident (and there have been accidents, lots of them, and yet, nobody died), and we are getting a 1Km target pinned on our backs just for taking pictures of the sunset.

View attachment 157210

On the other hand, GPS drones are really hard to crash; omnidirectional sensors, RTH, forced landing, GPS, compass, sonar... we even have ADSB receiver for drones that cost less than 1.000€, like the Air2S so, why all the rules? Why the necessity of RID? Safety? Then why don't cars don't have RID?. Because It's all about segregating the <120m airspace and selling it, and in order to do that, that airspace must remain as clear as possible and Karens&Kens will just do the job for them thanks to apps like OpenDroneID and the promotion they'll get past September 2023.

Tons of people have left the hobby due to confrontations ad stress during flights thanks to over regulation even before existing RID, nobody wants to pay a fine of six numbers just to fly a bit over their area, explore and take some pictures with a <250 drone that weights less than a bird at 30 meters altitude like if you were to one hit kill an Airbus that's flying at 10Km alt.

Nobody spends 2000+€ on a drone just to hear the sound of it hitting the ground, and nobody flies long range to crash their drone 9Km away and spend the rest of the day searching for the pieces in the middle of nowhere.

Most drone crashes come out of inexperience because for most people this is a self-taught hobby, a really complex hobby where you have to know a lot of things, like electronics, aerodynamics, physics, telecommunications, computing, situational awareness, photography, videography, laws, rules, maps, etc.

You mention having to know ‘situational awareness’. At 9KM you have none.

 

[DARKSeifer]

You mention having to know ‘situational awareness’. At 9KM you have none.

SA involves lots of things, not just the location of the drone.

Telemetry and a 108º FOV camera in real time is more than enough for that purpose. Looking at the screen is the proper way to fly UAS, you don't even have the obstruction of a cockpit, so in that sense, you are well served, specially when paired with a big screen or goggles.

VLOS is optimal for traditional RC, not drones (and with this I'm not saying its legal, of course BVLOS is illegal unless you fly under specific STS-02 category).

On the other hand you don't need a medical certificate anymore to fly drones, at least here, so you can technically be deaf or have vision problems and still be able to legally fly it... so it may not be that important after all to be VLOS and to hear if a plane is coming around at <120m alt or else, having a medical certificate would be mandatory.

VLOS is important when you want to fly near obstacles, people, buildings, etc but apart from that looking at the drone has little interest and FPV is the proof of that. At the moment you lose VLOS (if you fly alone and have to switch your view between the moving drone and the screen, VLOS is around 250m for <900g drones or even less for <250g) it becomes the same to be at 600m than at 2Km.

And of course, long range is just a part of the hobby, 500m legal VLOS range in Europe gives room for any flight so if you don't like it, just don't do it, you can limit your drone to 120m alt and 500m range (or whatever distance limit there is in your area) and forget entirely about that.

This is feeling like soon I'll read people defending the previous 15m altitude limit in India and the red flag law for cars in the past.

 

[KI5RLL]

We see no gray area in the law. We have a Judiciary to argue that. Legislative has already done its part.
We are now, and will be bound to it. It is only in transition and implementation right now—being no excuse for violation.
It is not and will not be subject to diminution. That time period already passed. Public Comment, writing and enactment is done already. They gave a plenty wide implementation window. Complaining is one thing. Violation is another. Yes we can complain, but disagreement with law is not immunity from it.
We have had this transition and implementation period allowing responsible pilots to get onboard, and claiming ignorance will still be indefensible.
Like bragging on a worldwide Forum about violations. Still indefensible.

 

[DARKSeifer]

We see no gray area in the law. We have a Judiciary to argue that. Legislative has already done its part.
We are now, and will be bound to it. It is only in transition and implementation right now—being no excuse for violation.
It is not and will not be subject to diminution. That time period already passed. Public Comment, writing and enactment is done already. They gave a plenty wide implementation window. Complaining is one thing. Violation is another. Yes we can complain, but disagreement with law is not immunity from it.
We have had this transition and implementation period allowing responsible pilots to get onboard, and claiming ignorance will still be indefensible.
Like bragging on a worldwide Forum about violations. Still indefensible.

There's a thing called civil disobedience, you should check it.

Also, it would be interesting to check the Airdata of those who loudly claim to follow the rules 100% all the time, I'm sure we would laugh a lot.

 

[thispilothere]

Also, it would be interesting to check the Airdata of those who loudly claim to follow the rules 100% all the time, I'm sure we would laugh a lot.

Just about everyone here has admitted to breaking the rules when they think it's safe enough. There was a poll about it and over 60% admitted to flying BVLOS. They sometimes try to mask it in "safe" language - it's accidental/I reacquire the drone ASAP/etc.

I've even heard people say they lost VLOS "accidentally" because the drone was behind a building. Like the building jumped in front of them unexpectedly.

 

[SkyeHigh]

SA involves lots of things, not just the location of the drone.

Telemetry and a 108º FOV camera in real time is more than enough for that purpose. Looking at the screen is the proper way to fly UAS, you don't even have the obstruction of a cockpit, so in that sense, you are well served, specially when paired with a big screen or goggles.

VLOS is optimal for traditional RC, not drones (and with this I'm not saying its legal, of course BVLOS is illegal unless you fly under specific STS-02 category).

On the other hand you don't need a medical certificate anymore to fly drones, at least here, so you can technically be deaf or have vision problems and still be able to legally fly it... so it may not be that important after all to be VLOS and to hear if a plane is coming around at <120m alt or else, having a medical certificate would be mandatory.

VLOS is important when you want to fly near obstacles, people, buildings, etc but apart from that looking at the drone has little interest and FPV is the proof of that. At the moment you lose VLOS (if you fly alone and have to switch your view between the moving drone and the screen, VLOS is around 250m for <900g drones or even less for <250g) it becomes the same to be at 600m than at 2Km.

And of course, long range is just a part of the hobby, 500m legal VLOS range in Europe gives room for any flight so if you don't like it, just don't do it, you can limit your drone to 120m alt and 500m range (or whatever distance limit there is in your area) and forget entirely about that.

This is feeling like soon I'll read people defending the previous 15m altitude limit in India and the red flag law for cars in the past.

You have clearly demonstrated an ignorance of situational awareness. No wide angle of view is going to give you vision above, below, behind or to either side of your direction of flight.

You could very easily be hit from your blind sides by a bird of prey and you would have had no idea about it, less an aircraft of any size. And what could your disabled aircraft fall upon? Again, no idea.

Try walking wearing earplugs and a pair of blinkers and see how well you know what is going on around you. Better still try the same in an African wildlife park.

 

[BigAl07]

Being that long on a hobby tends to blur the apprentice curve. Have you tried to lend your drone to anyone out of the hobby, even a stabilized one? You should try and see if it's difficult or not.

This sounds to me like the people that think that photography is just pressing a button.

LOL! You are speaking in circles my friend. In terms of lending to someone outside the hobby, I INSTRUCT people who have never seen a drone in person let alone operated one. With a couple of minutes of "this goes up, this goes right, this is your display screen" etc they can take off, fly around and land again without knowing anything about the myriad of items you claim they MUST know . . .

"a really complex hobby where you have to know a lot of things, like electronics, aerodynamics, physics, telecommunications, computing, situational awareness, photography, videography, laws, rules, maps, etc.

I take absolute drone newbies and in no time at all they are able to do basic flight maneuvers without knowing how to design, build, repair, or any other "technical aspects" of UAS operations. Today's UAS are self flying, automatically stabilizing aircraft that require NO fine skills to operate generally. The Flight Controller does all of that for you and most of today's UAS Operators couldn't fly for 3 seconds without the Flight Controller making all the decisions for the flight and that's a fact.


This sounds to me like the people that think that photography is just pressing a button.
What part of this conversation did we mention anything about needing to know "Photography Fundamentals" in order to FLY today's highly automated UAS? You're reaching WAY out there and trying to put words into my mouth where-as I'm literally quoting your words and pointing out the errors of them.

 

[edfrombama]

Good morning to all-

This entire conversation- and so far, it has been quite acceptably civil- focusses on the single point of most contention among droners. That is, VLOS and BVLOS. There are laws and regulations regarding distance of drone flight, and there are reasons for these limitations. There are also situations where fliers can and do responsibly "fly around" these regulations. I have done this, and I suspect most who ever picked up a controller and sent a drone up, up, and away have done this- admit it or deny it.
I have learned through my time on this forum that trying to discuss or display anything about long-distance drone flying is going to get a swift and hot response. Perhaps that's the desired effect of the poster.
I don't enjoy having others upset with me and my flying, so I have come to rarely post anything about my long-distance flying. I fly as I want and need to fly, and I get my photos, and I don't bother anyone else with it- either when I'm flying or afterwards when I'm posting on this forum.
If a long-distance drone flier gets roasted here for posting information about obviously out of VLOS flights, then he/she is only getting what he/she asked for.
I won't be asking , and I won't be telling.

you all be safe and keep well- Ed

 

[DARKSeifer]

LOL! You are speaking in circles my friend. In terms of lending to someone outside the hobby, I INSTRUCT people who have never seen a drone in person let alone operated one. With a couple of minutes of "this goes up, this goes right, this is your display screen" etc they can take off, fly around and land again without knowing anything about the myriad of items you claim they MUST know . . .

"a really complex hobby where you have to know a lot of things, like electronics, aerodynamics, physics, telecommunications, computing, situational awareness, photography, videography, laws, rules, maps, etc.

I take absolute drone newbies and in no time at all they are able to do basic flight maneuvers without knowing how to design, build, repair, or any other "technical aspects" of UAS operations. Today's UAS are self flying, automatically stabilizing aircraft that require NO fine skills to operate generally. The Flight Controller does all of that for you and most of today's UAS Operators couldn't fly for 3 seconds without the Flight Controller making all the decisions for the flight and that's a fact.


This sounds to me like the people that think that photography is just pressing a button.
What part of this conversation did we mention anything about needing to know "Photography Fundamentals" in order to FLY today's highly automated UAS? You're reaching WAY out there and trying to put words into my mouth where-as I'm literally quoting your words and pointing out the errors of them.

Just like I said, pressing a button is not photography, keeping a drone in the air is not flying, stand on surf table is not surfing, sit over a motorbike is not riding, turning on the computer is not computing, writing your name on a paper is not writing, and so on.

You can go as deep as you want on any hobby or just scratch the surface, that's just up to you, but deny the complexity of droning, taking in account in how many ways drones can be used, is quite astonishing. But if you think that anyone can pick a drone and fly like Johnny FPV in two hours (because that is flying)... well, good for you.

 

[BigAl07]

Just like I said, pressing a button is not photography, keeping a drone in the air is not flying, stand on surf table is not surfing, sit over a motorbike is not riding, turning on the computer is not computing, writing your name on a paper is not writing, and so on.

You can go as deep as you want on any hobby or just scratch the surface, that's just up to you, but deny the complexity of droning, taking in account in how many ways drones can be used, is quite astonishing. But if you think that anyone can pick a drone and fly like Johnny FPV in two hours (because that is flying)... well, good for you.

I didn't say "keeping a drone in the air is flying".... I actually said (if you'll take the time to read, I am very specific in my words):

" are able to do basic flight maneuvers without knowing how to design, build, repair, or any other "technical aspects" of UAS operations" That means, controlled stable flight and able to fly safely and competently from point A to point B in various manners (nose in, nose out, side ways, looking over your shoulder etc etc That's a LOT more than "just keeping the drone in the air" by a LONG shot.

The mere fact someone can "fly a drone" without the myriad of requirements you mention is a daily and repeatable FACT even if you insist on saying otherwise. You keep insisting (and I'm going to quote you again):

"a really complex hobby where you have to know a lot of things, like electronics, aerodynamics, physics, telecommunications, computing, situational awareness, photography, videography, laws, rules, maps, etc."
and it's total hogwash!! Yes in some instances SOME of those skills come in handy but in no way are those tasks at all required for the average UAS Operation like that majority of our membership here are. These units are Plug-n-Play (actually it's more Pay, Charge & Play) and require no knowledge of electronics, aerodynamics, physics, telecommunications, photography/videography" to be able to have a great time with them. Granted if you want to advance in the hobby, or like many of us create a CAREER of it, then it's in your best interest to delve deeper into the needed aspects of photography/videography but I dare say that some of the most advanced UAS Commercial Operators in this arena still don't know much about Aerodynamics, Physics, Telecommunications, Electronics etc etc. Those are NOT required fields for your average UAS Operator today. To keep insisting otherwise is nothing short of a comedy act.

 

[DARKSeifer]

That's true, I can agree with that.

 

[Don Testme]

Done in Ontario, CA by ONT airport? There? In the dark too. At 1000ft AGL. East L.A. 4.5 miles any direction from Ontario is serious airspace. What did the controller say?
Jeez @Don Testme this thread is about to get a BIG list of admonitions here. I count at least 5.

Yes I have the M3 also. Awesome craft! Yes it can go very high and very far.
My wife has a Mercedes G-class that can run 140mph. But we never have.

That's not where it was flown. Just because a location is in a member's profile, doesn't mean that the drone is flown in that location.

 

[GFields]

This thread had run its course, went sideways and back.

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