Mavic 3 vs 3 Cine - ProRes? Flymore? Worth it?

[CanadaDrone]

I like to use CPL because I fly over water all the time. Ideally ND+CPL - so I need aftermarket filters anyway, so for me personally the stock ND filters may not be worth 179

The problem with polarizers is that your footage and exposure changes as soon as you change directions. That may not be an issue for your application, but if you want your video to look even, you need an extremely specific flight path with little to no direction change, otherwise you need to land and change the orientation of the CPL before changing directions.

Generally speaking, you wouldn't want to buy ND/PL combos without also having a set of just NDs.

 

[zeusfl]

Well. is not only the Pro Res license

ProRes is not for most people. Some professionals demand it and some agencies require it, but for the vast majority of users, especially casual ones or hobbyists, it will not be something that is needed. A big part of the M3 Cine's cost is simply the ProRes license, which DJI also sells as a standalone product for the Inspire2 line for $500 USD. Most people are going to be much better served by spending that money on a couple extra batteries or something instead, but it's nice the option is available.

Is not only the ProRes license. Is the 1TB built-in SSD. I assume is a nvme. This probably will allow the drone to write the video file more smoothly than an SD card. SD card has limitations in read-write. The SSD or NvME is much faster. Not sure if this will make difference between the smoothing of the video or skipping frames... Just theory.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Well. is not only the Pro Res license

Is not only the ProRes license. Is the 1TB built-in SSD. I assume is a nvme. This probably will allow the drone to write the video file more smoothly than an SD card. SD card has limitations in read-write. The SSD or NvME is much faster. Not sure if this will make difference between the smoothing of the video or skipping frames... Just theory.

Yes, I mentioned that above already, and is why I said "part" of the cost

Uncompressed ProRes 4:2:2 4K6P bitrates are roughly 1500Mbps so you need something with a sustained write speed of around 200MB/s to be safe. They could have also done it with CFExpress memory cards but they chose to go the SSD route. Looking at the weight difference between the Cine and non-Cine, they are almost certainly using a standard M.2 SSD unless they have developed some sort of proprietary solution.

 

[zeusfl]

Just o clarify I am not an expert on Video.

If I am not mistaken ProRess is 220MB/s vs 200MB/s the regular Mavic 3. That extra 20 gives you more bit rate. Not too much difference for a hobbyist but for a videographer probably will make difference.

Anyway, SSDs are capable of up to 700Mbs VS NvME PCI 4 up to 7000-8000 Mbs reading or 5000-6000 Writing.

SSD is just fine for the Mavic 3 Cine.

From Goolge.
SanDisk Extreme PRO microSDXC UHS-II

The world's fastest transfer speeds of up to 275MB/s

Clocking in at up to 275MB/s8, the SanDisk Extreme PRO microSDXC UHS-II Card delivers the fastest transfer speeds that you've ever

This leaves me concerned about the ability of the regular SanDisk to be able to write data on time without buffering or lost data eventually. I guess explains why DJI decide to use an SSD instead of the cine version to guarantee the video quality.

I don't think the Mavic 3 will be happy with value SDcards. Will need to be high-end ones.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Just o clarify I am not an expert on Video.

If I am not mistaken ProRess is 220MB/s vs 200MB/s the regular Mavic 3. That extra 20 gives you more bit rate. Not too much difference for a hobbyist but for a videographer probably will make difference.

Anyway, SSDs are capable of up to 700Mbs VS NvME PCI 4 up to 7000-8000 Mbs reading or 5000-6000 Writing.

SSD is just fine for the Mavic 3 Cine.

From Goolge.
SanDisk Extreme PRO microSDXC UHS-II

The world's fastest transfer speeds of up to 275MB/s

Clocking in at up to 275MB/s8, the SanDisk Extreme PRO microSDXC UHS-II Card delivers the fastest transfer speeds that you've ever

This leaves me concerned about the ability of the regular SanDisk to be able to write data on time without buffering or lost data eventually. I guess explains why DJI decide to use an SSD instead of the cine version to guarantee the video quality.

I don't think the Mavic 3 will be happy with value SDcards. Will need to be high-end ones.

You are confusing Mbps and MBps. Divide Mbps by 8 to get MBps.

For argument's sake, ProRes is about 1,500Mbps in uncompressed 4:2:2 at 4K60P, or ~187 MBps. The maximum bitrate on the M3 for non-ProRes is 200Mbps. (or about 25MBps).

Regarding transfer speeds you see written on memory cards, the advertised theoretical maximum transfer speeds don't actually mean much - what matters is the minimum sustained write speed, which is often a more difficult thing to find. There is some standardization there on slower cards (V10, V30, V60, etc. denoting guaranteed 10MB/s, 30MB/s, and 60MB/s minimum sustained write speeds respectively), but not so much with the faster storage mediums.

I did not suggest SD cards, I suggested CFExpress cards. CFE Type B cards for example can have sustained write speeds of around 1,500 MBps which is an order of magnitude faster than what the M3 would require even if shooting in ProRes. An actual SSD would accomplish exactly the same thing for this application, which is the route DJI has chosen to go.

 

[zeusfl]

Thank you very much for that clarification. I am not an expert on the subject but I know the microSD card is probably reaching the limit if not exceed on the M3

 

[CanadaDrone]

Thank you very much for that clarification. I am not an expert on the subject but I know the microSD card is probably reaching the limit if not exceed on the M3

Happy to help. And you are correct, there are no MicroSD cards that would be suitable for uncompressed ProRes in the formats the M3 is capable of. For the non-Cine model though, any card marked V30, V60, or V90 should be sufficient. I'd go at least V60 just to be safe.

 

[Kirill]

The problem with polarizers is that your footage and exposure changes as soon as you change directions. That may not be an issue for your application, but if you want your video to look even, you need an extremely specific flight path with little to no direction change, otherwise you need to land and change the orientation of the CPL before changing directions.

Generally speaking, you wouldn't want to buy ND/PL combos without also having a set of just NDs.

Good point. And Freewell's pack Amazon.com : Freewell All Day - 4K Series –8Pack ND, ND/PL, CPL Filters Compatible with Mavic 3 : Electronics seems to compliment DJI's rather replace it

 

[UAVquadman]

You hit the nail on the head. I have been looking hard at the options in Canada and getting ready to pull the trigger. The prices are the same at all outlets at the present time and I generally buy from Dr. Drone, who gives great service and has fast shipping.

DJI Drones For Sale in Canada and the USA | Dr Drone

Established in 2014 DrDrone is Canada's first drone retail and repair center | Shop DJI Drones from industry-leading experts.

www.drdrone.ca

In Canada the filters for the M3 are $199 and the *#$% bag is $329. As someone else noted, if I get an M3, it will be travelling in a good hard case, not a soft bag. I can get the stand alone M3 along with three batteries and the accessories I want for $181 Cdn (plus 15% tax) for less than the fly more kit.

Canadian prices:

1. M3 with 1 battery - $2669
2. M3 Fly More - $3639
3. M3 Cine - $6049

Price difference - M3 vs M3 Fly More - $970

The accessories I want:

- 2 batteries - $259/ea
- Props X 2 - $19
- Prop guards - $59
- Car Charger - $85
- Charging Hub - $89

Total $789

Savings: $181 - almost enough for battery #4

Unless you really have to have the soft bag and factory filters, I don't think that the Fly More is the way to go IMHO.

the charging hub is a RIP OFF! just get a real charger that does 3 at the same it. everybody knows this! LOL

 

[Kirill]

- 2 batteries - $259/ea
- Props X 2 - $19
- Prop guards - $59
- Car Charger - $85
- Charging Hub - $89

Total $789

Savings: $181 - almost enough for battery #4

Don't think you need to stock up on propellers until you need them. Base model comes with spares
Car charger - may be worth getting aftermarket that can do 85W or has two output slots - so you can charge battery in drone and in hub at the same time

 

[Lister]

ProRes HQ is a big plus for editing high resolution video, like the 5.7k video the drone can produce. That resolution in either H.264, or H.265 will demand a very modern high powered PC to play the video without stutters and compression artifacts.

It's a matter of a few minutes to transcode H.264 or H.265 to a more edit-friendly format. Resolve does this easily.

 

[zeusfl]

Well.
Back to the topic, I believe if you ask to a professional videographer it worth it. Basically you py an extra $500 for the ProRes. Have you any idea how much photographers or videographers pay for an extra sharpness in lens or technology on cameras? Thousands.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Well.
Back to the topic, I believe if you ask to a professional videographer it worth it. Basically you py an extra $500 for the ProRes. Have you any idea how much photographers or videographers pay for an extra sharpness in lens or technology on cameras? Thousands.

Just to add to this, I suspect most people buying the Cine bundle don't care about the cost because it is either a business write off, or the cost will be covered in just a few jobs. I can't imagine many casual hobbyists are even considering it, especially with how much moaning there is around here about the price. It's the same deal with other camera equipment - there are many professionals who don't even bat an eye when they purchase multiple $7,000 camera bodies and have $40,000+ of lenses to match. The cost of a M3 Cine to folks like that using the gear to make their living is a drop in the bucket, but it may seem absurd to a weekend warrior.

 

[thispilothere]

If you don't get the Cine version, what's in the slot where the SSD goes?

 

[CanadaDrone]

If you don't get the Cine version, what's in the slot where the SSD goes?

The SSD is somewhere inside the drone (I haven't see any teardowns yet to know exactly). M.2 SSDs weigh only a few grams and are extremely compact, so quite possibly nothing is in the slot inside the drone for the non-Cine models. DJI probably just installs the SSD in the Cine models, and doesn't for the non-Cine models. The rest is just firmware because ProRes is just a license - the non-Cine hardware is technically capable of shooting ProRes as well, it's just disabled, probably with firmware or similar.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Just to add to this, I suspect most people buying the Cine bundle don't care about the cost because it is either a business write off, or the cost will be covered in just a few jobs. I can't imagine many casual hobbyists are even considering it, especially with how much moaning there is around here about the price. It's the same deal with other camera equipment - there are many professionals who don't even bat an eye when they purchase multiple $7,000 camera bodies and have $40,000+ of lenses to match. The cost of a M3 Cine to folks like that using the gear to make their living is a drop in the bucket, but it may seem absurd to a weekend warrior.

The vast majority of the professional camera equipment is actually purchased by wealthy hobbyists, who have unlimited budgets for all their hobbies, and insist upon owning the best that money can buy, and don't need to justify the expense on the basis of income generation. Nor do they need authorization from anyone else to make the purchase, including their spouses, who married them for their money!

 

[GadgetGuy]

Am I correct in understanding that the Cine version has no microSD card slot for recording in H.265 or H.264 when not recording in ProRes?

 

[CanadaDrone]

The vast majority of the professional camera equipment is actually purchased by wealthy hobbyists, who have unlimited budgets for all their hobbies, and insist upon owning the best that money can buy, and don't need to justify the expense on the basis of income generation. Nor do they need authorization from anyone else to make the purchase, including their spouses, who married them for their money!

That is not my understanding, at least based on my conversations with some of the major camera stores and reps from Nikon, Canon, & Sony.

Can you share your source for that please? I would be very interested in seeing the data behind that. Certainly wealthy hobbyists account for a portion of the sales but the professional sports/agency/news, etc. markets for the high-end gear is quite large.

 

[GtoJon]

Both combos have an Elephant in the room ... the Fffg bag! That bag is what is bad about everything in the combos ... & then the filters .... it's like they are charging full price for these things! They should just eliminated the bag all together & offered the combo at $2,499! M3, Charger, 3 batts & that's it! Nobody has ever used the DJI bag! Get real! JMHO

Cheers, Jon

 

[GadgetGuy]

That is not my understanding, at least based on my conversations with some of the major camera stores and reps from Nikon, Canon, & Sony.

Can you share your source for that please? I would be very interested in seeing the data behind that. Certainly wealthy hobbyists account for a portion of the sales but the professional sports/agency/news, etc. markets for the high-end gear is quite large.

Conversations with the major reps from Nikon, Canon, and Sony, as well as their sponsored shooters, and the major camera stores. Basically, the same sources. There is a limit to the number of telephoto lenses needed by professional shooters, but there is an unlimited number of wealthy amateur hobbyists that they can also be marketed to, who are birders and wildlife shooters. Suffice it to say that the equipment would be far more expensive if it could only be sold to professionals. The true proportions sold to each group are likely somewhere between what I have been told and what you have been told.

Golf equipment is sold the same way. Everyone wants to use the same equipment Tiger Woods plays with, assuming they will be able to play like him! Some people pay $500 for an exclusive name brand putter because it is supposedly the best. They still can't putt, but the status of playing with "the best," like Tiger Woods uses, is apparently worth paying for.

By way of analogy, here is a completely different example, told to me by my uncle some 30 years ago. There is a category of race cars in Europe that requires that at least 500 of them be sold to the general public. Porsche wanted to create a car for this race to win, but the production costs were so high, that they assumed they could never find 500 public buyers for the cars. The marketing department cleverly polled all their Porsche dealers in California, who polled their customers, and found out that if Porsche made the car, they would be able to sell all 500 cars in California. The race car was manufactured, sold to 500 wealthy Californians, and Porsche went on to win the race with the car. I am also told that some half of all Porsches worldwide are sold in California. No definitive data to back that up, but it wouldn't surprise me. California has both the demand and the weather to support year round driving of a sports car that can only be driven 6 months out of the year in Germany! The fact that it can only be driven at 10 mph in gridlock traffic is lost on them! By contrast, there is no speed limit on the German Autobahn!