Mavic Air 2 Appears to Have Crashed Itself

[MikeAlexander811]

Hoping for some additional help or a better idea of why my logs are missing important data that DJI claims is not there and thus have denied me a warranty replacement. I was flying the MA2 about 50ft away from me over a shallow river. A group of people were approaching so I decided to move the aircraft up and away from the crowd. I did that and left it to hover so I could walk off a bridge and then land it. Well while taking on eye off the aircraft to watch where I was walking I heard something hit the water. I happened to look at the controller quick and saw a red RC LOST flash near the top of the screen. When I looked up the aircraft was gone and all I could see was a ripple in the water. I went and changed my clothes and retrieved the aircraft. It was in the salt water for about 25 minutes. I proceeded to get home, reach out to DJI and open a case. Well between emails and talking with support on Reddit and sending log data twice they have no record of the RC LOST entry and claim the logs show last input was the pilot holding the stick straight down into the water. (Not sure why I would ever do that BTW). So now I'm stuck, they offered a discount on replacement but I know what I saw and what I didn't do. Their support barely budges at all, I even asked for getting the controller replaced since I don't trust it and they refused. I'm left with a repair bill that almost matches the price of purchasing new. As you could imagine I am beyond upset and have been really turned off by DJI. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[skunky1]

Sorry for your loss and welcome to the forum

Pair your log files and some clever people here (not me) will assist

 

[MikeAlexander811]

Thanks for the heads up. Log files attached.

 

[old man mavic]

sorry for your loss ,without the logs any thoughts would be pure conjecture
two me there are two possible causes ,
(1) as it was only 50 odd ft away from where you where flying then as you turned to walk to a new position then it could have lost signal and triggered RTH which at the distance would have led it ti just land
(2) or you could have inadvertently given it full down stick as you were concentrating on your footing and the people around you

 

[MikeAlexander811]

It's just beyond upsetting that I saw that RC LOST message and have no way to prove it.

 

[slup]

Hoping for some additional help or a better idea of why my logs are missing important data that DJI claims is not there and thus have denied me a warranty replacement. I was flying the MA2 about 50ft away from me over a shallow river. A group of people were approaching so I decided to move the aircraft up and away from the crowd. I did that and left it to hover so I could walk off a bridge and then land it. Well while taking on eye off the aircraft to watch where I was walking I heard something hit the water. I happened to look at the controller quick and saw a red RC LOST flash near the top of the screen. When I looked up the aircraft was gone and all I could see was a ripple in the water. I went and changed my clothes and retrieved the aircraft. It was in the salt water for about 25 minutes. I proceeded to get home, reach out to DJI and open a case. Well between emails and talking with support on Reddit and sending log data twice they have no record of the RC LOST entry and claim the logs show last input was the pilot holding the stick straight down into the water. (Not sure why I would ever do that BTW). So now I'm stuck, they offered a discount on replacement but I know what I saw and what I didn't do. Their support barely budges at all, I even asked for getting the controller replaced since I don't trust it and they refused. I'm left with a repair bill that almost matches the price of purchasing new. As you could imagine I am beyond upset and have been really turned off by DJI. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Hi there & welcome to the forum ? ... even though it's under these circumstances.

So this is what's seen directly out from your log ...

First ... you used stick mode 3 not the default mode 2, meaning right & left stick functions have changed places compared to mode 2.



Here below the total flight path during the last flight, have red marked the final path section that drowned your MA2. It consisted first of a straight full forward flight towards the bridge & then a little later a full ascend was applied which eventually drowned it.



Checking out your stick inputs (blue & green) there in the end together with the height change (red), the change in heading speed (purple) & change in vertical speed (yellow, positive value=ascend) ... shows this.



It's clear that 2 stick inputs was made, one for max forward flight (green) & that was applied at 867sec ... then at 869sec also a max ascend input was made. Both the heading & vertical speed change confirms this.

At 872,8sec the flight log ends, most probably due to that the MA2 goes into the water & the connection to your RC is lost.

The log event stream confirms this and register below ... & here you see the RC lost message.



So ... yeah, can't see anything different than DJI unfortunately.

You can play the flight yourself here --> DJI Flight Log Viewer - PhantomHelp.com

 

[Meta4]

reach out to DJI and open a case. .. they have no record of the RC LOST entry

DJI have no record of that because there is no record of it.
Your drone submerged and all data to the controller stopped at that point.
RC Lost is just what showed on your phone or tablet when it had lost the signal.

and claim the logs show last input was the pilot holding the stick straight down into the water.

They claim that because it's what the recorded flight data shows
It shows that after leaving the drone hovering, at 14:27.3 you (or something) pushed your left stick full forward and held it there, making the drone fly forwards.
And at 14:29.9 you also pulled the right stick full back and held it, which brought the drone down from +17.4 ft to -16 ft.
You can see the joystick inputs displayed in the lower right of the map window here:

DJI Flight Log Viewer | Phantom Help

Upload and view flight logs from your DJI drones

www.phantomhelp.com

Go down toward the end of the data and click on any line of data to see the corresponding joystick positions.

(Not sure why I would ever do that BTW).

Still, it does look like that's what happened.

Their support barely budges at all. ... As you could imagine I am beyond upset and have been really turned off by DJI.

They can only go by what the recorded flight data shows, not what you wish it showed.

I even asked for getting the controller replaced since I don't trust it and they refused.

If you don't trust the controller, you could try the joystick calibration process.
That will show you how well your input is registered by the controller.
It's more than unlikely that the controller malfunctioned to sink your drone.
It's not just one joystick input involved, but two.
It's probable that while you were walking and not looking at the drone or controller, something pushed on or caught the joysticks and caused the incident.

 

[DanMan32]

You can also play back the log in Fly app, enable stick view.

 

[boblui]

There is a recent case in which the OP believed that the drone flew away by itself but after reading the log he came up with a more reasonable explanation : Mavic Pro 1 takeoff (flyaway) crash

However, two sticks were moved in your case so it's kind of hard to explain ....

 

[Capt KO]

The reason for Care Refresh. I’ve never used it but glad I have it. Maybe next time. Good luck

 

[PhantomFandom]

Hoping for some additional help or a better idea of why my logs are missing important data that DJI claims is not there

Sorry but it does look like all of the flight data is actually there up until your drone hit the water. There cannot be any data after that point, since even if the drone was still transmitting for a few seconds under water those signals could not reach your controller.

Well while taking on eye off the aircraft to watch where I was walking I heard something hit the water. I happened to look at the controller quick and saw a red RC LOST flash near the top of the screen. When I looked up the aircraft was gone and all I could see was a ripple in the water.

Of course it is important that you were concerned most for the safety of bystanders and for yourself. However since your eyes were not on the drone during the descent, you cannot say with any certainty what happened. The logs however do tell us exactly what happened.

I proceeded to get home, reach out to DJI and open a case. Well between emails and talking with support on Reddit and sending log data twice they have no record of the RC LOST entry and claim the logs show last input was the pilot holding the stick straight down into the water. (Not sure why I would ever do that BTW).

That is indeed what the logs show. They are not making it up. It is quite possible that while you were paying attention to safely walking off the bridge, you inadvertently applied full stick down for the descent into water. The data is not manufactured or false. It can only log what actually occurred. Had there been any calibration issue, it would have most likely been apparent during the flight before and not just a perfect correlation with the drone action.

So now I'm stuck, they offered a discount on replacement but I know what I saw and what I didn't do.

Actually by your description and the flight logs, it seems that you did not see the actual event and that you don't know exactly what stick input you were giving.

Their support barely budges at all, I even asked for getting the controller replaced since I don't trust it and they refused. I

It does not seem that there are any issues with the controller.

As you could imagine I am beyond upset and have been really turned off by DJI. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Wish it was better news but none of the data supports your contention of hardware issues. The logs, drone action, and your recounting of events align perfectly to a controlled descent into the water (i.e. under your control, although inadvertent).

Sure DJI support can be really difficult to deal with even when there are hardware/firmware issues but this is not one of those cases. I know it is difficult to reconcile that you caused the crash, but it does seem that is the case here.

 

[JmannIndy]

Hi there & welcome to the forum ? ... even though it's under these circumstances.

So this is what's seen directly out from your log ...

First ... you used stick mode 3 not the default mode 2, meaning right & left stick functions have changed places compared to mode 2.

View attachment 118500

Here below the total flight path during the last flight, have red marked the final path section that drowned your MA2. It consisted first of a straight full forward flight towards the bridge & then a little later a full ascend was applied which eventually drowned it.

View attachment 118501

Checking out your stick inputs (blue & green) there in the end together with the height change (red), the change in heading speed (purple) & change in vertical speed (yellow, positive value=ascend) ... shows this.

View attachment 118503

It's clear that 2 stick inputs was made, one for max forward flight (green) & that was applied at 867sec ... then at 869sec also a max ascend input was made. Both the heading & vertical speed change confirms this.

At 872,8sec the flight log ends, most probably due to that the MA2 goes into the water & the connection to your RC is lost.

The log event stream confirms this and register below ... & here you see the RC lost message.

View attachment 118505

So ... yeah, can't see anything different than DJI unfortunately.

You can play the flight yourself here --> DJI Flight Log Viewer - PhantomHelp.com

 

[JmannIndy]

I'm brand new and found this discussion interesting. Sorry about the crash. I had one also (my fault, rookie stupidity), and DJI Care fixed 'er back up.

I'm intrigued by the available data and how it can be viewed on maps. I'm looking forward to reviewing some of my flights, and this leads to my questions.
1) What happens with uploaded flight data (as seen in settings) where does it go?
2) Is this kind of visual representation, should I become falsely accused of breaking rules, FAA's inquiry, or a concerned citizens suspicions, good for defending myself?

When I looked at the Google earth version I realized that I had also flown there this fall. We were vacationing along the coast of Maine. The Wiggly Bridge is a pedestrian Suspension Bridge. Fun for kids to walk on as it shakes. I got some fun footage.

Jim

 

[MM2]

It's just beyond upsetting that I saw that RC LOST message and have no way to prove it.

Well this is awkward, isn't it. The flight logs clearly show you either directly, or indirectly caused the crash of your drone through your stick inputs. Am interested to hear your reasoning now.

 

[slup]

...
1) What happens with uploaded flight data (as seen in settings) where does it go?
2) Is this kind of visual representation, should I become falsely accused of breaking rules, FAA's inquiry, or a concerned citizens suspicions, good for defending myself?
...

If you chose to set the app to auto sync or if you do it manually from within the flight app the logs are uploaded to DJI servers. Syncing to DJI isn't mandatory ... you decide. As the logs is stored in the mobile device you flew with you can equally well move them over to your computer for long term storage if you think they can be handy to have for future use instead of hogging down the mobile device storage. But if you off load them you can't see them anymore in the app ... instead you can use free programs like CsvView or free web services like Airdata.com or Phantomhelp.com/logviewer to look at the flights ... or move logs of interest back to the mobile device so the app can see them again. Read more about flight logs here --> Mavic Flight Log Retrieval and Analysis Guide

Don't have a clue what evidential value FAA ascribe to the flight logs ... but they will for sure not damage your case if you have obeyed all laws & regulations & give support to your version of the flight.

 

[JmannIndy]

THANK YOU Very Much

 

[MikeAlexander811]

Well first of all, I want to thank everyone so much for their detailed input concerning my issue. I never thought I would get this amount of feedback. Instead of addressing all comments individually and replying directly I'll keep my response to this current post.

I know it is very clear what the flight data shows. I will continue to stand by what I know took place. Member slup's illustration above is very accurate of me flying up until his red highlighted path. That action took place while I was walking away from the bridge while holding the controller with my left hand out and in front of me. Not near my backpack or any other obstacle that could have held BOTH sticks in their full position. It is just not possible. I am 100% convinced someone or something interfered with my flight. Of course I have no way to prove that and I'm again venting to people that understand my frustration and appreciate the technology and responsibility that comes with flying a drone. And even with the data those sticks would have had to been held in their position until the aircraft hit the water. Even if my backpack got caught on those sticks, while it was on my back, it's not possible as that controller was held no where near it.

I know nothing will be changing DJI's decision. And you guys have been amazing with my data. This is just a very tough pill to swallow. As a person who is very matriculate and takes great care of everything he purchases with upmost detail to the point it annoys his wife, I know in my heart of hearts that I did not crash the aircraft myself. But I'll suck it up, save my money, and when I can buy another MA2 I will, this time with Care Refresh. It's an awesome piece of technology.

 

[Meta4]

I am 100% convinced someone or something interfered with my flight. Of course I have no way to prove that

Radio interference doesn't fly your drone away and it doesn't move your joysticks.
The only way someone or something could have interfered with the flight would be to have manipulated your joysticks the way it's shown in the data.

FYI .. here are the joystick movements shown the recorded flight data.
Green = stick in the centre = no input
All 4 green = drone hovering
Yellow = stick pulled down, 364 = full stick
Red = stick pushed up, 1684 = full stick