Mavic Mini No Licence requirement question

CareyL · Feb 15, 2020

First I apologize to all non-Canadians for this very local tangent to the thread.

ajkm said:
I believe you are misinterpreting 900.01 in this instance; the decal, strobes, landing gear etc that some choose to use put the TOW (which is defined in CARs 101.01) over the 250g.

The 900.01 definition to which you refer, only relates to Part IX ("The following definitions apply in this Part.") and specifically to 901.43 which describes four types of payload that a 250g-25kg RPA pilot may not carry in the absence of an SFOC.

You use your signature to suggest you know better about the interpretation of CAR's especially Part 9. Yet you offer no facts based on the TC's published interpretation or court judgments to support these contentions. Instead you offer assertions unsupported by fact. The Mavic Mini, (this forum's topic), has a Manufacturer's declared weight of 249g. Payload is defined for for the purposes of CAR's; you do not get to select what and where it should apply.

Then you use 901.43, (which does not apply to a Mavic Mini), to support your contention. I think any reasonable person would consider this spurious when combined with your signature. Or are you now claiming to represent Transport Canada? Inquiring minds want to know.

Is it fact or is it opinion?

ajkm · Feb 15, 2020

I have nothing further to add that the references I have made to the CARs doesn’t already answer. Thanks for the discussion. 73.

GadgetGuy · Feb 16, 2020

skiptv said:
Mavic Mini does not have the capabilities to do professional work. Regardless of whether you need a license or registration.

Depends upon your definition of professional work. For many small commercial jobs, it can often be the right tool for the job, especially in Canada!

Thanev · Feb 16, 2020

GadgetGuy said:
Depends upon your definition of professional work. For many small commercial jobs, it can often be the right tool for the job, especially in Canada!

Love the misconception that the equipment makes the money.
Skill of working with the images you capture determines your success for the most part.I submit this example:

Meet the Pro Photographer Who Uses a Simple Point & Shoot

A short interview with Meagan V. Blazier, the professional photographer who uses an old Canon point & shoot to capture every one of her images.

iso.500px.com

Be less worried about the equipment and focus on what you hope to achieve.

GadgetGuy · Feb 16, 2020

Thanev said:
Love the misconception that the equipment makes the money.
Skill of working with the images you capture determines your success for the most part.I submit this example:

Meet the Pro Photographer Who Uses a Simple Point & Shoot

A short interview with Meagan V. Blazier, the professional photographer who uses an old Canon point & shoot to capture every one of her images.

iso.500px.com

Be less worried about the equipment and focus on what you hope to achieve.

Exactly! iPhone Wedding Photography is even a thing! Some people feel the need to impress the client with their equipment. Others realize the equipment is only a tool, and the client is paying for the results, not what tool you used to achieve them with, especially when cost is a factor! The MM is, indeed, the right tool for the job when it involves tight spaces, a high risk environment, and the MM parameter outputs still meet the client's needs!

Jquptg · Feb 17, 2020

fjc said:
Since the mini requires no registration or licence to operate, does that mean one can use it for commerical purposes as well? Since you need no licence I would assume the licencing rules do not apply as they would to drones weighing more than 250 grams. And since you need no licence, that would preclude you from having to know the rules in the first place. Thoughts?
Thanks
FJC

Most of the same rules apply regarding flying zones. Every time I have to click all the authorization zone disclaimers because I am close to but not inside a red zone with an airport. I would feel very comfortable inspecting a roof for someone as long as neighbours were indoors. The lateral restrictions don’t apply to people in a building. I would say just use common sense, respect the safety and privacy of others. If someone objects, leave. Not sure about using for profit. That may make you subject to a bunch of different rules. Real estate seems to be a huge use of these today. I would say you are NOT PRECLUDED from knowing the rules because your drone is lighter than 250 grams. Ignorance of laws usually doesn’t help in my experience. Especially with someone smart enough to post your question.

Jquptg · Feb 17, 2020

sebodrone said:
It will not take away any business after the first few idiots will lose the drone in the stronger wind it will be back to usual. I don't think we should have an approach: "It is small so if it hits someone it is ok" we should be avoiding accidents by flying in good conditions. Not by flying anytime and saying: if I hit that lady with the kid it's ok the drone is light and most likely will not do any harm.

There are not many days in a month in Canada when you can really fly MM safely to do the job.
I have MM since day one and flew bigger drones and have a quite good comparison. I think when the client wants to do the shoot on Wednesday, you go and do it on Wednesday, how many times you will ask to reschedule due to windy weather. You might have more flexibility with real estate, but how are you gonna go about weddings etc, I'm not even mentioning any type of surveys, you gonna say: If the weather will be nice you will have your drone shoot?
Come on, that's just not professional Mavic mini is a toy, it does what it does in certain conditions, but it is a toy, anyone trying to use for building serious business is delusional. As an odd addition for one-offs sure. But I already heard here it could be used as a rescue drone, so nothing will surprise me There will be more people with "I lost my drone on the first take off"

I agree. I just got MM and it doesn’t take much to get a wind warning, especially at 100’. I have a mavic pro that I don’t use because I haven’t done the testing. I have read the testing is not reasonable and is designed to allow only police and movie sets etc.. to use quality drones. The MM is an amazing toy. With the prop guards it is totally safe even bouncing off a person.

Jquptg · Feb 17, 2020

CareyL said:
Even for Canada this is much opinion and misinformation.
"decal" decal for what?
"Prop guards" etc. relating to increasing the weight. I suspect you are referring to a RPA with a "maximum take-off weight of 250 g. What you are missing is :

Part IX — Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems
Division I — General Provisions
Interpretation
900.01 The following definitions apply in this Part.
...
payload means a system, an object or a collection of objects that is on board or is otherwise connected to a remotely piloted aircraft but that is not required for flight. (charge utile)

Whether prop guards, lights, extended landing gear or even the camera are required for flight has not been tested in the courts. "a commercial operator might consider to be operationally required." Consider and opinion are not relevant to law.

You should stop giving misinformation and maybe remove the "·TC Advanced Ops RPAS Pilot
& Flight Reviewer" from your signature. This is not the first time you have given bad information.

That’s the definition of idiotic to punish someone for prop guards on a MM and have it be classed as dangerous as a 25kg drone when you have actually made it safer. I do put the prop guards on sometimes and I would challenge that one in court. Someone should. The intent is to make things safer not punish someone for i!

slup · Feb 17, 2020

Jquptg said:
...prop guards on a MM and have it be classed as dangerous as a 25kg drone when you have actually made it safer...

Would say that statement are 2-sided ... prop guards on outside may very well make the MM more dangerous by making it more receptive to winds ... leading to harder to control & putting much more strain to the MM. Risks much higher for a blow away with a later uncontrolled descent on property or people.

Indoors ... yeah, of course.

ruggb · Feb 19, 2020

fjc said:
Hi, thanks, I guess I should have indicated that I'm in Ontario Canada, and rules might be a little different. But still it makes little since to have to follow licensing rules if you need no license in the first place to operate it. Thanks.

The confusion might be "license" vs "registration". People get awful sloppy with English, don't they?
The Mini requires no registration since it is below he 250g limit. Just don't put those fancy skins on it.

ThorDar · Feb 19, 2020

ruggb said:
The confusion might be "license" vs "registration". People get awful sloppy with English, don't they?
The Mini requires no registration since it is below he 250g limit. Just don't put those fancy skins on it.

Agreed. Licensing is referring to the pilot taking and passing an exam to get a drone pilots certificate. In Canada and many other countries, not required if you keep the Mini at 249 grams. It's akin to a driver's license.

However, adding anything and I mean ANYTHING to the Mini, including labels, landing gear, strobes, etc etc. bumps the weight up to over 250 grams and then legally, you will need a pilot's certificate to fly it.

CareyL · Feb 19, 2020

Can you support your statement with the exact quote from the Transport Canada regulations?

ThorDar said:
...
However, adding anything and I mean ANYTHING to the Mini, including labels, landing gear, strobes, etc etc. bumps the weight up to over 250 grams and then legally, you will need a pilot's certificate to fly it.

ThorDar · Feb 19, 2020

CareyL said:
Can you support your statement with the exact quote from the Transport Canada regulations?

Flying your drone safely and legally - Transport Canada

How to fly a drone legally and safely in Canada

www.tc.gc.ca

Specifically note this definition, the term "take-off weight" when referring to when registration and pilot certification apply.

small remotely piloted aircraft means a remotely piloted aircraft that has a maximum take-off weight of at least 250 g (0.55 pounds) but not more than 25 kg (55 pounds); (petit aéronef télépiloté)

Thanev · Feb 19, 2020

CareyL said:
Can you support your statement with the exact quote from the Transport Canada regulations?

From the following Transport Canada link:

Help for drone retailers - Transport Canada

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/help-drone-retailers.html

Inform your customers
All drone pilots flying drones between 250g and 25kg must register their drone. Drone pilots also need to get a drone pilot certificate. Drones under 250g do not need to be registered and do not require a pilot certificate but pilots are still responsible for flying safely. Drones over 25 kg also do not need to be registered, but require a special flight operations certificate instead.

There are two main categories of drone operations: basic and advanced. When a customer is buying a drone, it's important they consider whether they will be conducting basic or advanced operations, and select a droneaccordingly.

Canada.ca/drone-safety has all of the services and information they’ll need to get flying.

This info is VERY easy to find on the internet.You may want to check out the rules before becoming a statistic.Ignorance of laws are NOT a defence.Hope this helps.

Deleted member 109934 · Feb 19, 2020

Thanev said:
Love the misconception that the equipment makes the money.
Skill of working with the images you capture determines your success for the most part.I submit this example:

Meet the Pro Photographer Who Uses a Simple Point & Shoot

A short interview with Meagan V. Blazier, the professional photographer who uses an old Canon point & shoot to capture every one of her images.

iso.500px.com

Be less worried about the equipment and focus on what you hope to achieve.

She is not a good photographer, she is a good photoshop editor, two different things.

CareyL · Feb 20, 2020

ThorDar said:
Flying your drone safely and legally - Transport Canada

How to fly a drone legally and safely in Canada

www.tc.gc.ca

Specifically note this definition, the term "take-off weight" when referring to when registration and pilot certification apply.

small remotely piloted aircraft means a remotely piloted aircraft that has a maximum take-off weight of at least 250 g (0.55 pounds) but not more than 25 kg (55 pounds); (petit aéronef télépiloté)

And what is the legal, (as in the Regulations), definition of "take off weight?

CareyL · Feb 20, 2020

You did not quote a single Regulation, (ie: 901.42(a). Just generics & inferences. Maybe you should lookup the TC definition of "take off weight"

Again: "However, adding anything and I mean ANYTHING to the Mini, including labels, landing gear, strobes, etc etc. bumps the weight up to over 250 grams and then legally, you will need a pilot's certificate to fly it "

Thanev said:
From the following Transport Canada link:

Help for drone retailers - Transport Canada

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/help-drone-retailers.html
Inform your customers
All drone pilots flying drones between 250g and 25kg must register their drone. Drone pilots also need to get a drone pilot certificate. Drones under 250g do not need to be registered and do not require a pilot certificate but pilots are still responsible for flying safely. Drones over 25 kg also do not need to be registered, but require a special flight operations certificate instead.

There are two main categories of drone operations: basic and advanced. When a customer is buying a drone, it's important they consider whether they will be conducting basic or advanced operations, and select a droneaccordingly.

Canada.ca/drone-safety has all of the services and information they’ll need to get flying.

This info is VERY easy to find on the internet.You may want to check out the rules before becoming a statistic.Ignorance of laws are NOT a defence.Hope this helps.