Mavic Pro becomes a scrap after the end of 2023 ?

[brett8883]

It practically has the hardware, but it doesn't have the remote ID function other than djis proprietary aeroscope. Maybe if you just enter the serial number the faa is happy.

Aeroscope may be proprietary but it’s not encrypted so any device that can receive and understand the protocol can get the Aeroscope messages which include all the requirements of RID including drone serial number.

The RID requirements just say the RID broadcast has to be unencrypted not that they have to be in any particular protocol as far as I know.

 

[Jcamp123]

It will still fly, just stay off the internet.

 

[lookout]

Aeroscope may be proprietary but it’s not encrypted so any device that can receive and understand the protocol can get the Aeroscope messages which include all the requirements of RID including drone serial number.

The RID requirements just say the RID broadcast has to be unencrypted not that they have to be in any particular protocol as far as I know.

But faas version is accessible via wifi and or Bluetooth not packet sniffing the dji's aeroscope protocol passive interception direct on frequency.

Even if they have the same elements in a structure,

{ double lat, lon; } is a different structure than { double lon, lat; }

Json is supposed to make it indifferent to actual order by being able to tag the elements with their values.

To save time and space the structures are usually the first one, the binary output. Json is an optional format that may or may not work for every situation. I'm sure you are already familiar with all of that.

But when and if the firmware update comes, I'm sure you'll still be able to preserve root with your superpatcher the only difference in the new firmware will be an added tarball package dated this year with some arbitrary name RID or something.

 

[brett8883]

But faas version is accessible via wifi and or Bluetooth not packet sniffing the dji's aeroscope protocol passive interception direct on frequency.

Even if they have the same elements in a structure,

{ double lat, lon; } is a different structure than { double lon, lat; }

Json is supposed to make it indifferent to actual order by being able to tag the elements with their values.

To save time and space the structures are usually the first one, the binary output. Json is an optional format that may or may not work for every situation. I'm sure you are already familiar with all of that.

But when and if the firmware update comes, I'm sure you'll still be able to preserve root with your superpatcher the only difference in the new firmware will be an added tarball package dated this year with some arbitrary name RID or something.

I know you have done a lot of work on the Aeroscope side of things and I have not so I defer to you, however, it is a fact that the MPP is FAA certified for RID today, right at this moment, without a firmware update. In fact it was certified back in January.

I am thinking that maybe DJI gave the secret sauce of Aeroscope over to the FAA and that satisfied the requirement. I think it is telling that DJI discontinued the Aeroscope receivers shortly there after.

 

[lookout]

I know you have done a lot of work on the Aeroscope side of things and I have not so I defer to you, however, it is a fact that the MPP is FAA certified for RID today, right at this moment, without a firmware update. In fact it was certified back in January.

I am thinking that maybe DJI gave the secret sauce of Aeroscope over to the FAA and that satisfied the requirement. I think it is telling that DJI discontinued the Aeroscope receivers shortly there after.

But I thought it was supposed to be accessible to anyone using a smartphone, so either that proprietary aeroscope now becomes part of the Remote ID standard and becomes a public domain item or the remote ID receiver app becomes closed source and only available in controlled distribution breaking the whole system. Dji drones with the RID update are just using a serial block in front of the serial number of the flight controller.

But yeah that's weird.

Only thing I could see on the mpp approval is it just pointed to the fcc records already shown for this model.

 

[brett8883]

But I thought it was supposed to be accessible to anyone using a smartphone, so either that proprietary aeroscope now becomes part of the Remote ID standard and becomes a public domain item or the remote ID receiver app becomes closed source and only available in controlled distribution breaking the whole system. Dji drones with the RID update are just using a serial block in front of the serial number of the flight controller.

But yeah that's weird.

Only thing I could see on the mpp approval is it just pointed to the fcc records already shown for this model.

If you read the final rule on remote ID, the means of compliance is pretty broad it just says:

“(1) The unmanned aircraft must be capable of broadcasting the message elements in § 89.305 using a non-proprietary broadcast specification and using radio frequency spectrum compatible with personal wireless devices in accordance with 47 CFR part 15, where operations may occur without an FCC individual license.”

It doesn’t say you need to make the information to decode the message public just that you aren’t preventing someone from doing that is how I read it.

 

[lookout]

If you read the final rule on remote ID, the means of compliance is pretty broad it just says:

“(1) The unmanned aircraft must be capable of broadcasting the message elements in § 89.305 using a non-proprietary broadcast specification and using radio frequency spectrum compatible with personal wireless devices in accordance with 47 CFR part 15, where operations may occur without an FCC individual license.”

It doesn’t say you need to make the information to decode the message public just that you aren’t preventing someone from doing that is how I read it.

§ 89.305 Minimum message elements broadcast by standard remote identification unmanned aircraft.
A standard remote identification unmanned aircraft must be capable of broadcasting the following remote identification message elements:

(a) The identity of the unmanned aircraft, consisting of:

(1) A serial number assigned to the unmanned aircraft by the person responsible for the production of the standard remote identification unmanned aircraft; or

(2) A session ID.

(b) An indication of the latitude and longitude of the control station.

(c) An indication of the geometric altitude of the control station.

(d) An indication of the latitude and longitude of the unmanned aircraft.

(e) An indication of the geometric altitude of the unmanned aircraft.

(f) An indication of the velocity of the unmanned aircraft.

(g) A time mark identifying the Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time of applicability of a position source output.

(h) An indication of the emergency status of the unmanned aircraft.

The session id was more tied to the network remote id but you had to have a connection to the utms to derive it. So a broadcast module is only broadcasting a serial number?

The Mavic pro can have the wifi module turned on in ap mode at the same time the rc mode is running. But getting the elements in (2) broadcasted will be a trick. If it's only necessary for the serial number in (1) that could be done relatively easily.

If all it broadcasts is serial number on a broadcast module, that's basically useless information. Doesn't give any information about the flight itself, and does nothing useful.

But the session id is broadcast on the network module instead of the serial number, so that's all they get directly. But on the utms connection all of the flight information is broadcast all over the internet.

That 'or' at the end of (1) makes it serial number or session ID. The paragraph starts with (a) and continues with (b) under (2). That's kind of strange. Like it still has to broadcast all of the flight information regardless of whether it is serial number or session id.

 

[brett8883]

§ 89.305 Minimum message elements broadcast by standard remote identification unmanned aircraft.
A standard remote identification unmanned aircraft must be capable of broadcasting the following remote identification message elements:

(a) The identity of the unmanned aircraft, consisting of:

(1) A serial number assigned to the unmanned aircraft by the person responsible for the production of the standard remote identification unmanned aircraft; or

(2) A session ID.

(b) An indication of the latitude and longitude of the control station.

(c) An indication of the geometric altitude of the control station.

(d) An indication of the latitude and longitude of the unmanned aircraft.

(e) An indication of the geometric altitude of the unmanned aircraft.

(f) An indication of the velocity of the unmanned aircraft.

(g) A time mark identifying the Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time of applicability of a position source output.

(h) An indication of the emergency status of the unmanned aircraft.

The session id was more tied to the network remote id but you had to have a connection to the utms to derive it. So a broadcast module is only broadcasting a serial number?

The session ID is in place of the aircraft serial number and it is optional. It is meant as a proxy for the serial number to provide an additional layer of privacy. If someone figures out my serial number then every time I fly that person knows it is me and where I am. The session ID would change each flight so someone receiving the data couldn’t link that session ID to any particular person except the FAA or law enforcement which would have the session ID key which would point to the correct s/n and aircraft registration info linking the session ID to the pilot. Yes that would require some network connection to so that is why you can use S/N instead

The Mavic pro can have the wifi module turned on in ap mode at the same time the rc mode is running. But getting the elements in (2) broadcasted will be a trick. If it's only necessary for the serial number in (1) that could be done relatively easily.

The Wi-Fi module is just for using your phone to control the drone via the app without the RC. We already know that the drone sends out Aeroscope signals during normal flight with the regular RC that can be received without a handshake. In all likelihood this is using a 2.4-2.5 GHz signal that can be picked up by any wi-fi antenna.

If all it broadcasts is serial number on a broadcast module, that's basically useless information. Doesn't give any information about the flight itself, and does nothing useful.

Broadcast module gives the location speed and all that too. The only difference in the wording, if I remember correctly is the broadcast module gives the location of the take off point instead of the location of the remote controller.

But the session id is broadcast on the network module instead of the serial number, so that's all they get directly. But on the utms connection all of the flight information is broadcast all over the internet.

No, nothing has to be broadcast over the internet now. They changed that part of the rule. just has to be broadcast via radio to the local area. Maybe that’s the source of confusion?

That 'or' at the end of (1) makes it serial number or session ID. The paragraph starts with (a) and continues with (b) under (2). That's kind of strange. Like it still has to broadcast all of the flight information regardless of whether it is serial number or session id.

Right. The purpose of broadcasting either the session ID or s/n is to enable the FAA or law enforcement to get the identity of the pilot and that’s why they are interchangeable. When you register your drone you have have to give the serial number of the aircraft now so either way if law enforcement want to find the identity of a pilot based solely on RID they’d need to go to the FAA to get that info so they can cross reference the s/n or session IF to the registration info

 

[Jcamp123]

Too much BS on this subject. First don't upgrade but if you do it can be hacked. Second stay off internet and fly till you are sick of flying. Most of us just fly for the hell of it and we are not engineers. We just fly for fun. No matter what you will be able to fly without spending money on some stupid RID module.

 

[ylmavicpro]

I will first and foremost say that I am American and as such my knowledge of US laws only helps to understand the EU rules but does not make me an expert.

Reading the rules it seems aircraft purchased before 12-31-23 and under 25KG can still fly under subcategory A3, no? Again, not an expert in the EU rules but unless I am reading this all wrong it seems to be the case.
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Thank your for information. I did not find this information on swiss websites. But Swiss drone laws took over EU drone law.