Mavic Pro boring for me once I learned I can't fly out of LOS

[Bigbird48]

I have no problem with VLOS out to about 1000 feet over flat terrain. To have more fun try flying thru the trees at low altitude, guide the drone thru places you would not normally fly at speed. Its challenging and fun

 

[Lil' DronePilot]

“and even got a Crystalsky Ultra so I can see much better. Its amazing how clear it is and how easy it is to fly without LOS with the CS” “the CS is pretty much useless. .[/QUOTE]

So the only question I have is, since you are so bored with the MP and the Crystalsky is pretty much useless because of regs, HOW MUCH DO TOU WANT FOR IT? PM me

 

[lisadoc]

"Lisadoc. Doesn't the definition of a model aircraft being one flown within visual line of sight, come from the law (PUBLIC LAW 112–95—FEB. 14, 2012 )? As the definition is part of the law, doesn't that mean that there IS "law promulgated that prohibits them from flying beyond VLOS? I am confused by that portion of your post.

Understandably. The fact is that the FAA has not (technically) made it a law for recreational flyers (Section 336) to fly beyond VLOS. Nowhere do they say that recreational flyers cannot fly beyond VLOS. In fact, Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 (P.L. 112-95), specifically prohibits the FAA from promulgating “any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft”. So in essence, the FAA isn't allowed to legally prohibit you from flying in a certain way as a recreational flyer, as long as you satisfy their requirements of what they consider "recreational flying".

So, as an end-around, the FAA required you to fly within VLOS in order to be considered a recreational flyer, where, as a recreational flyer, you're free to fly however you want (or the community agrees is acceptable). Freedom, huh? If you don't fly this way, then the FAA has deemed that you can't be a recreational flyer, and therefore come under Part 107, where they can make all the laws they want to tell you how to fly however they deem fit. Ironic, but it has passed Congressional and public comment muster thus far. They initially also said that you had to register your aircraft to fly Sec. 336, and that got challenged in court and tossed because the courts saw it as "promulgating a rule". (Though Congress has seen fit to reinstitute it as law).

Take it to an extreme and you'll see the "ouroboros" part of it. Let's say the FAA decided to, without promulgating any rules dictating how you fly as a recreational flyer, make the definition requirements of recreational flyer the following:

"To be considered a recreational flyer under Section 336, you must fulfill the following requirements - fly within VLOS, fly during daylight hours, fly no more than 50 feet off the ground, be wearing flip-flops, a green turtleneck sweater, plaid pants, under the supervision of your mother, spouse, or blood relative within one generation, fly no more than 12 mph, be registered in our database, using only DJI 3rd generation quad-copters utilizing firmware updated to no later than February of the current year, during sunny days with winds no more than 22 mph, without eye or sunglasses, and while hopping on one foot.... And as such a recreational flyer, you're of course free to fly however you want. If you don't meet these criteria, we of course won't consider you as flying under Section 336, at which point you must fly exactly as we tell you."

The extreme nature of this example makes it silly of course and it would be immediately challenged and struck down in court. But start lopping off 2.. 3... 6... 9... of those "minimal requirements" and you have exactly what the FAA has done, in order to give you your "complete freedom" to fly as a recreational flyer and ensure that they aren't actually promulgating any laws or regulations dictating how model aircraft are utilized.

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

this dude is talking like flying at night is fun. yea its a bit fun but way way WAY less fun when you can only see what is being lit up on the ground and everyone else can see the strobe too, which means higher chances of being harassed by people who like to harass others, you know about those people, they are everywhere.

You do know people have been flying model aircraft for many years without cameras, right? Have you ever thought that some people just like to fly a quad like some people play with RC trucks or boats? Of course not, you only think of the way YOU use your quad.. so of course that HAS to apply to everyone.

RE: People harassing me. I've been night flying for over a year. I live in a pretty populated area and have NEVER had any issues. I fly at a couple lakes that are popular sunset sports. Most people don't even notice -- those that do usually assume it's a regular aircraft flying over. Have had curious people come over, but never any trouble. (There was ONE time I was flying a 3am from a hilltop and 3-4 police cruisers show up. They were curious and wanted a demo. Super cool guys! )

So many Negative Nellies on here recently.... you party poopers realize this is supposed to be fun right?

 

[jamesbeack]

If you have a $1000 drone why would you want to risk it? I believe the above comment about Part 107 is correct. If people keep pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable, then that only pushes stricter laws into being. Abide by the law, and when in doubt fly safer than not.

 

[MAVA4]

It just seems like flying UAVs around used to be really fun. Watching old footage (circa 2014 and earlier) and people flying in developed areas doing cool stuff (in places you're not longer allowed to fly to drones). You can see the people in this footage (bystanders) seem amazed and positive reactions to a drone flying around.

Then it seemed Casey Neistat popularized them and everyone and their grandma went out, bought one, and immediately crashed them into everything because they don't know how to fly.

FAA and gov cracked down. Media joined in to stigmatize drone owners and now most of the population HATES drones. Every flight I'm on edge waiting for people to call the police or run over and assault/yell at me. Already get dirty looks.

Now there's all kinds of laws/regulations and almost nowhere to legally fly them.

Sorry for the rant. Guess I'm just depressed tonight. Thought I found a cool new hobby and had it all come crashing down when I really dug into all the red tape/laws/regulations. I wish I discovered the hobby before it got ruined.

I'm wondering: in what country do you fly?

 

[MAVA4]

Nahh.. It mainly for cruising the skies at night. The P4 gets MUCH better night video!

The link isn't working... (?)

 

[MAVA4]

Pretty new here and to droning. Got my MPP a few weeks ago and a few flights under my belt. I printed out the manual and read it many times.
Since there is a lot of discussion here about flying at night (which I haven’t tried yet), how does this affect the craft when you use RTH? The manual states many times about low ambient lighting and basically causing the foward and downward avoidance feature to be useless. Does anyone use RTH at night or do you use it and set the return path at 120 meters or above your highest obstacle ?
Thanks in advance.

Does not affect RTH at all.
Just make sure you set RTH altitude appropriately, and that the mpp acquires that home point at takeoff.

 

[hoggdoc]

It just seems like flying UAVs around used to be really fun.

I get man, I have been building and flying multi-rotors long before that stupid, butt ugly Casey Neistat ever showed up on YouTube. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would find him entertaining.

I can tell you from experience it has been DJI itself that has created the majority of the issues with UAVs world wide. Why would I say such a thing, well because their great technology allows anyone with zero experience and an IQ anything above that of an amoeba to fly their stuff. Sure that's great, but it does encourage people with more money than brains to buy these things and abuse them creating news stories that make anyone flying a UAV look like the bad guy to the uninformed public.

Basically it is now having a negative affect on the entire flying RC hobby in general these days. Many times it better to need a bit of knowledge and skill to participate in an activity, than making it so easy anyone can do it. When you have to take the time learn and practice something you develop a vested interest in what ever you are doing. But the youth of today's world has been taught that instant gratification is the only value to seek.

I wonder just how much time blurred55 has invested in the hobby, or did he just put down his Visa or MasterCard and buy the UAV! Just saying...

Another example of this is Amateur radio. It used to take some real knowledge and skill to obtain a license to operate in the HAM bands, but now because all the tests have been dumbed down to the point where anyone can become licensed it has ruined the hobby for many of us. I have long since sold all my HAM gear and haven't looked back.

It's too bad what the last few years have brought to the RC community and I'm at the point of chucking it as a hobby as well.

 

[hoggdoc]

I have read here before that night flying is not expressly prohibited under AMA hobbyist guidelines which means it may be reasonable and okay for the hobbyist/recreational flyer to do depending on all facts and circumstances.

Who cares what the AMA's guidelines are, they have sold the RC hobby down the river.

 

[AClineman]

I get man, I have been building and flying multi-rotors long before that stupid, butt ugly Casey Neistat ever showed up on YouTube. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would find him entertaining.

He reminds me of Jeff Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemount high

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

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[FlyGuy8675309]

I have read here before that night flying is not expressly prohibited under AMA hobbyist guidelines which means it may be reasonable and okay for the hobbyist/recreational flyer to do depending on all facts and circumstances.

Right from AMA:
"Night flying requires a lighting system that provides the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination systems by themselves are inadequate for night flying operations and must be supplemented with other lighting systems."
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/100.pdf

 

[blurred55]

I get man, I have been building and flying multi-rotors long before that stupid, butt ugly Casey Neistat ever showed up on YouTube. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would find him entertaining.

I can tell you from experience it has been DJI itself that has created the majority of the issues with UAVs world wide. Why would I say such a thing, well because their great technology allows anyone with zero experience and an IQ anything above that of an amoeba to fly their stuff. Sure that's great, but it does encourage people with more money than brains to buy these things and abuse them creating news stories that make anyone flying a UAV look like the bad guy to the uninformed public.

Basically it is now having a negative affect on the entire flying RC hobby in general these days. Many times it better to need a bit of knowledge and skill to participate in an activity, than making it so easy anyone can do it. When you have to take the time learn and practice something you develop a vested interest in what ever you are doing. But the youth of today's world has been taught that instant gratification is the only value to seek.

I wonder just how much time blurred55 has invested in the hobby, or did he just put down his Visa or MasterCard and buy the UAV! Just saying...

Another example of this is Amateur radio. It used to take some real knowledge and skill to obtain a license to operate in the HAM bands, but now because all the tests have been dumbed down to the point where anyone can become licensed it has ruined the hobby for many of us. I have long since sold all my HAM gear and haven't looked back.

It's too bad what the last few years have brought to the RC community and I'm at the point of chucking it as a hobby as well.

Well said. Its so cringy to watch all of these videos on YouTube of people getting brand new Mavic's and not even looking at the instructions and then doing stupid stuff and crashing them immediately.

I am new to these types of UAVs but I am not a novice pilot. I used to fly the miniature, cheap RC helicopters a lot indoors. I mastered them and was able to land on people's palms, hover, and fly them through obstacles with no issue. Whereas most people would crash them immediately. I also have excellent spatial sense when flying which helps a lot.

I've flown lots of PC helicopter simulators too including gaming simulators like ARMA (helicopter pilot).

Not a "true pilot" but I'm not some inexperienced dumbass causing trouble. I was able to fly the Mavic Pro easily out of the box in comparison to those other things. I am very careful, I do pre-flight inspections, aware of where I'm flying, aware of not disturbing other people with noise, etc.

 

[Skiergd011013]

I was having so much fun, flying responsibly (away from houses, people, roads, etc) and even got a Crystalsky Ultra so I can see much better. Its amazing how clear it is and how easy it is to fly without LOS with the CS. I'd mainly just fly out over trees and empty areas around 150-200 ft altitude and explore. Most I'd go is around 2,000 feet away. At that distance the Mavic is too small to see in the sky, but I have zero issue navigating or with orientation. Nothing crazy, the furthest I got was 3,000 feet away for a few minutes then turned around but still so fun to fly something by just navigating with the CS screen and tools.

After digging more I realized I was "ABSOLUTELY" not supposed to fly out of LOS. Since then I've only flown where I can see the drone (a few hundred feet away) and its just incredibly boring for me. I can only fly to what I can see and the CS is pretty much useless.

Anyone have any ideas for dealing with this or fun things to do while in LOS? I went out today and basically flew circles over a lake and then got bored in 10 minutes and went home.

yes, there is the faa laws/suggestions, but then there is reality. Most people with a drone as capable as the pro are not staying in vlos at all times. In my opinion, plain old common sense goes a long way here. As others have said, if you want to really use the pros capabilities (going far away) do so over fields, farm land, forest etc where its safer. I agree with you, doing circles 200 feet from you is boring. I like exploring. If i were you i would go out and find some new spots and enjoy the thing.

 

[RustyStainless]

Depends on country. In lots of places beyond VLOS is illegal.
The UK police guidance notes are if someone is wearing googles and is alone they are committing a criminal offence for example.

VLOS rules exist for a reason - you're sharing airspace with other vehicles. If you cant see it you cant adequately maintain all round lookout required for visual flight rules.

No, that is the reason that is being touted, but arguably they are plenty of full size craft in the air that have limited pilot vision. The VLOS comes from older times when the typical club flyer didnt have gps, fpv, autopilot, etc. Once those suckers get beyond VLOS it is bye bye, you have absolutely no idea what is happening. But modern rc craft have fpv, and just around the corner will be consumer grade FLARM systems, which will mean that many drones will be safer than the old Cessnas getting around in the skies. Here in Australia it is quite clear that CASA have kept their head in the sand regarding the growing levels of technology crammed into these craft, and the growing levels of drone ownership. Instead of creating a different class of drone that is equipped with FPV, everything comes under one category. By creating a new class of "Safety equipped drones" it would drive innovation. You talked about the all around vision issue, my plane has a 3 channel vision switcher from HobbyKing - I can see pretty much any direction i want to with that set up.
Its time each country had a drone owners lobby group to tackle the issues of drone laws, and not just leave it to the plane owners that run the aviation bodies.

 

[blurred55]

No, that is the reason that is being touted, but arguably they are plenty of full size craft in the air that have limited pilot vision. The VLOS comes from older times when the typical club flyer didnt have gps, fpv, autopilot, etc. Once those suckers get beyond VLOS it is bye bye, you have absolutely no idea what is happening. But modern rc craft have fpv, and just around the corner will be consumer grade FLARM systems, which will mean that many drones will be safer than the old Cessnas getting around in the skies. Here in Australia it is quite clear that CASA have kept their head in the sand regarding the growing levels of technology crammed into these craft, and the growing levels of drone ownership. Instead of creating a different class of drone that is equipped with FPV, everything comes under one category. By creating a new class of "Safety equipped drones" it would drive innovation. You talked about the all around vision issue, my plane has a 3 channel vision switcher from HobbyKing - I can see pretty much any direction i want to with that set up.
Its time each country had a drone owners lobby group to tackle the issues of drone laws, and not just leave it to the plane owners that run the aviation bodies.

Government is always archaic, slow, and behind the times. Its the reason why most .gov websites these days still look like they're from the 1990s. Lazy bureaucrats.

I agree in that I'd love to see a drone owners lobby group

 

[DiggerNZ]

I think the rules about flying within VLOS is out-dated, when hobbyist were flying model aircrafts with no camera. So they need to see where they are flying or they are pretty much flying blind.
Wonder how long before rules are updated.
Also, in Australia, you are not allowed to fly at night.

Same here in NZ.

 

[JSKCKNIT]

I was having so much fun, flying responsibly (away from houses, people, roads, etc) and even got a Crystalsky Ultra so I can see much better. Its amazing how clear it is and how easy it is to fly without LOS with the CS. I'd mainly just fly out over trees and empty areas around 150-200 ft altitude and explore. Most I'd go is around 2,000 feet away. At that distance the Mavic is too small to see in the sky, but I have zero issue navigating or with orientation. Nothing crazy, the furthest I got was 3,000 feet away for a few minutes then turned around but still so fun to fly something by just navigating with the CS screen and tools.

After digging more I realized I was "ABSOLUTELY" not supposed to fly out of LOS. Since then I've only flown where I can see the drone (a few hundred feet away) and its just incredibly boring for me. I can only fly to what I can see and the CS is pretty much useless.

Anyone have any ideas for dealing with this or fun things to do while in LOS? I went out today and basically flew circles over a lake and then got bored in 10 minutes and went home.

Someone probably already recommended this, I'm not going through all 7 pages of comments! If you have a friend or spouse that doesn't mind being your Aerial Observer, you can extend your range that way.

I feel your pain though. Try flying in Northern Virginia with all of the restrictions. Most open fields and bodies of water around me are restricted. 90% of my flights are practicing around a soccer field for the 10% of the time I can film something worthwhile!

 

[Ps8110]

I just got bored with my MA after 5 flights. Haven't flown it since March. I think I'll stick with airplanes.

I'll buy it from yoi