Mini 3 Pro charging watt rates

[BroomRider]

Nearly every drone uses LiPo, including the M3P.

DJI disagrees:

 

[microlinux]

They are just not clear. LiPo is a type of Li-ion battery.

 

[BroomRider]

They are just not clear. LiPo is a type of Li-ion battery.

Agreed, but different enough that they have a different name & different construction & different chemistry & different uses & different specs & different power delivery curve & different power-to-weight ratio & different flight times per size & weight & different energy density.

I went by their official Specs page... I suppose, I can try to contact them directly for a clarification? I did some research on the differences between LiPo & Li-Ion & included a link to 1 of the resources I found. It made total sense that an FPV drone with its higher performance but relatively short flight time would use a different type of battery than a camera drone, which (seemed to me) would emphasize longer flight times, & with higher performance not a priority.

If I had a preference, not being an FPV drone flyer, I'd opt for the Li-Ion type.

But Hey, I'm new here & new to drones... who am I to say?

 

[microlinux]

They are absolutely LiPo - needed to support the necessary current draw:

 

[CanadaDrone]

No need to contact anyone for clarification, the M3P batteries are 2S LiPos.

Virtually all batteries for radio controlled cars/trucks, aircraft, boats, etc. are LiPos.

 

[BroomRider]

They are absolutely LiPo - needed to support the necessary current draw:

View attachment 152812

Thanks for the clarification. When 1 of my M3P batteries fails, I'll see if I can rebuild it using Li-Ion - not LiPo - cells, & see how well that performs.

I'd be curious about the current draw ratings on the M3P unit; when faced with not knowing, I resorted to my usual habit, & started digging & researching. No doubt as time goes by & the unit matures, other options will be available.

I'm just not a fan of the drawbacks of LiPos. A shame that DJI couldn't have been a bit more specific in their description. I find it curious that there were Li-Ion batteries used in one of the previous models of the Mini series; I've seen some videos where they were used from an older Mini, & put into a newer Mini which used LiPos.

 

[mavicn00b]

Mavic mini and mini 3 user LiIon batteries. Mini2 uses LiPo batteries. The key differentiator is the voltages per cell. LiIon use v4.2v whereas the LiHV LiPos DJI use in most other drones are 4.35-4.4v/cell.

 

[Claymans]

Mavic mini and mini 3 user LiIon batteries. Mini2 uses LiPo batteries.

I thought the mini 2 used Li-ion 18650 cells?, the mini 3 uses Lipos.
I opened the case, it uses pouch-lipos

Compare lipo batteries vs li-ion - where the differences

The biggest differentiator between lipo batteries vs li-ion that you can check while buying is their structure. Lithium-ion batteries are usually packaged in a cylindrical, button-shaped, or rectangular case made of either aluminum or stainless steel while LiPo batteries are packed in a pouch...

www.takomabattery.com

Lithium polymer batteries (popularly called LiPo batteries) are rechargeable batteries whose electrolyte is a lithium-ion polymer. They have several advantages that make them the preferred choice over other batteries including the lithium-ion batteries with liquid/ gel.

the thing is, I always thought that the Li-ion 18650s have a higher energy density than pouch- lipos. seems the other way around, but it also could be the cylindric form factor.


but basically there seems some confusion over what lipo and li ion actually is, as somebody told me here before, every lipo is a Li-ion, but not every Li-ion is a lipo,

both batteries use lithium ions, which are the positive charged lithium atoms, that basically create the voltage.

difference is as I quoted above, that lipos use a polymer electrolyte, and obviously Li ions use gel-electrolyte (basicly a fluid).

I thought that 18650s have higher energy density at the expense of lower discharge rates. this may still be valid, because of the form factor as I said, but idk for sure to be honest.

The key differentiator is the voltages per cell. LiIon use v4.2v whereas the LiHV LiPos DJI use in most other drones are 4.35-4.4v/cell.

the mini 3 does not use I-ion batteries, nor HV. those are 3.69V lipos. they charge up to 4.2V. Yes Li-ion charge to 4.2 too. same as standart lipos, the more important difference in my opinion is the lower end-voltage, which is I think 2.5V with Li-ion cylindric cells, and about 3.5 with Lipos. I gues it has something to do with the electrolite crystalizing sooner with polymers, and gel-type polymers may have an advantage with that.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Finally had time to get my M3P out for it's maiden flight yesterday. Here's the charging rates I saw based on the regular battery included with the drone coming out of hibernation mode:

Charged at 32.3W for most of the time (this is right in the drone, I don't have the hub yet).

Then drops 0.1W every 2-3 seconds or so down to 22W. After settling there for a while it continues to drop 0.1W every 2-3 seconds to it's minimum charge of 2.0W, at which point the charge finishes. Total time was 42m19s.

After that it drew 0.2W, not sure if it trickle charges indefinitely or not, but I pulled it off the charger right away as that is not good for the battery. I don't think that was the balance charge because the drone reported that charge was complete and the cell voltage was balanced when I checked it in the drone.

The DJI RC charged at 17.4W.

Not really that exciting haha - but I am usually interested to see stuff like that.

 

[Droning on and on...]

There are a variety of electrical differences between lipos and li-ion cells like 18650s, but one of the main reasons for using li-ion cells over lipos is structural toughness and safety. This why you don't see lipos in ebikes and scooters.

 

[BroomRider]

There are a variety of electrical differences between lipos and li-ion cells like 18650s, but one of the main reasons for using li-ion cells over lipos is structural toughness and safety. This why you don't see lipos in ebikes and scooters.

From what I've read, LiPos are more damage-resistant during, for instance, a crash; if the foil pouch is punctured, the electrolyte won't (is less likely) to leak out, & they'll handle high peak loads better & they can also be formed in a variety of shapes, but electrically, they're more fragile, they need more care when being charged & discharged, won't tolerate being discharged as deeply, don't handle remaining charged at 100% over a period of time, tend not to last as long through the number of charge-discharge-charge cycles, & they're less energy-dense, meaning, for the same approximate size & voltage, they store roughly 1/2 as much energy as a Li-Ions. But, they're also a good bit lighter, not needing the solid metal casing that Li-Ions use, & Li-Ions will leak their liquid electrolyte out if damaged, which can cause damage to anything it reaches.

I guess there's good reason that the drone itself uses LiPos & the RC controller uses Li-Ions. 1 is flying & the other is not.

Copter type (vertical axis prop) drones need much more energy to fly than airplane (horizontal-axis prop) drones, as the former totally relies on the power storage, delivery & motor systems to remain in flight; airplane type drones merely use their prop(s) to move the craft forward, relying on its fixed wing(s) to remain in flight, thus all else being equal, the latter uses less power & there's also little or no need for peak energy bursts drawn from the battery(s). The weight of the battery(s) is of less importance to the fixed-wing drone also

As I've seen in a number of YT videos comparing the 2 types of batteries used in the same drone, the conclusion seemed to be that the Li-Ions had longer flight time over LiPos, although the Li-Ion battery was heavier, but the test drone wasn't nearly as able to perform any aggressive or acrobatic type maneuvers.

For a rough comparison, the Intelligent Plus M3P drone battery has a capacity of 3850mAh, 28.41watt-hours, with a nominal voltage of 7.38Vdc & powers the M3P for~45 minutes & takes between 78 & 101 minutes to charge, with a 30W max power charger.

Whereas the RC controller (there's a pair of Li-Ion batteries in it) has a capacity of 5,200 mAh, 9.36Wh x2 = 18.72Wh total with a nominal voltage of 3.6V x2 = 7.2V & powers the RC controller for ~ 4 hours & takes 1.5hrs to charge using a 5V - 3A (15W) charger.

Working in the marine technical service field for 30 years, & owning a business doing that for a good portion of that time, I have a fair amount of electrical engineering experience & I'm looking FWD to the opportunity to see if I can take a worn-out M3P battery apart & replace the LiPo with Li-Ion cells. It should be an interesting experiment.

 

[Claymans]

battery apart & replace the LiPo with Li-Ion cells. It should be an interesting experiment.

had the same idea.. thought of 21700 li ion cells. but those wont fit.. only option is 18650s, molicel , and these are available at max 3500 mah, and then only have max discharge 10A. everything above 10amps has max 3000 mah or less. which would not be as worthy to mod the standart pack. but 10A should be enough in theory. because if you look at the log files DJI makes in the app, well ok I think it only shows "above 10A". but I doubt it uses more than about 10A. I planned on doing it, but bailed out... but would be interesting to see your results, I think soldering to the BMS pads is not recommended, where the nickel strips are soldered on... and if you don't like reprogramming the BMS, you should probably solder on some power source to it, so it does not shut down as a safety feature while you remove the old cells...

I finally lost my motivation, because the li ions probably only give you the full capacity when you let the drone discharge them down to 2.5v or so. and it would probably not fly that reliable below 6v anyway. plus those warnings and stuff below 3.5v.. but it is def. worth an experiment.
sadly it wont take 21700s which go up to 4000 mah or 4200

 

[X Ray]

Bumping the thread for a little "down the rabbit hole" charging info...

Bought all the aftermarket Mini 3 battery chargers from Amazon last week... yes, ALL of them... although some will charge multiple batteries at the same time, none of them will charge the DJI batteries at more than 30w (not even the singles which claim 32w). The dual and triple charger(s) will charge at about 30 watts a piece, but only if charging two batteries, and you'll need a good USB power supply rated at over a total of 60 watts, like the UGREEN 100W GaN X. Tested these out with a few different UGREEN and Anker USB power supplies. I couldn't find a single Anker USB power supply that was fully compatible with DJI batteries/chargers. They won't charge the batteries at the highest speeds. Any UGREEN rated at 45w or higher will. The UGREEN's will do the not so common 12v 3amp charging mode when paired with the DJI hub for the super fast 36w charge.

The Mini 3 Pro itself can only charge a battery at a max of 29w. DJI's charging hub is King for a smokin' fast 36w charge. The obvious downside being that the hub only charges one battery at a time. Buying multiples, one for each battery, is the fastest charge possible.

The UGREEN 100W GaN X (3x USB-C 1x USB-A) power supply is awesome, as is their small dual USB-C 45 power supply. Most of the Anker's are ok, but the GaNPrime 65w 735 is complete garbage. This is the USB charger equivalent of a Delorean. Looked good, seemed good on paper, sucked harder than anything in real life.

Oh, one more thing.... DJI's dual USB-C 100w power supply for the Mavic 3, spec wise (didn't buy one, it was on backorder) appears to be just about as gangster as it gets. It will do the standard 5, 9, "and 12", 15, and 20 volt charging modes, but does them all at up to 5 amps. I don't remember seeing any other chargers with specs this good, and I researched a lot of them.

 

[BroomRider]

That UGREEN 100W model is the 1 I decided on buying, with their matching power-rated cables.

I also like that the AC prongs can fold back, reducing it to a small flat cube, very suitable for packing into a bag or case.

I only have the M3P with its 3-battery charging hub, so I can't comment on any of the other DJI products.

I do like that I can charge 1 battery in the hub, 1 battery in the drone, the RC controller, + something else (like a small portable charging bank) at the same time.

Correct me if I'm in error, but AFAIK, any power source exceeding 30W is wasted, as the battery charging rate is limited to 30W max by the battery protection circuitry.

But, the total power rating of the charger exceeding that can be used to charge other things too, as mentioned above.

 

[X Ray]

Correct me if I'm in error, but AFAIK, any power source exceeding 30W is wasted, as the battery charging rate is limited to 30W max by the battery protection circuitry.

The batteries can actually be charged at 36 watts in the charging hub. This requires that the USB power supply used can configure itself to the 12v/3a charging mode. Your UGREEN 100W GaN 4 port power supply can, and will charge your batteries at 36 watts in the charging hub if using the top or second USB-C port.

Here's the thing though; you can only use one, the top or the second USB-C port. If you use both, the first and second USB-C port, it drops it down to 2.5amps (30 watts). But as long as you only use one to charge the batteries at 36 watts, you can charge other devices with the 3rd USB-C port and the USB-A port.

So for example, you can charge a battery in the hub at 36 watts with the top USB-C port, and also charge your remote with the bottom USB-C port, and your cell phone with the USB-A port, all at the same time. Just don't use the second USB-C port.

 

[X Ray]

I do like that I can charge 1 battery in the hub, 1 battery in the drone, the RC controller, + something else (like a small portable charging bank) at the same time.

Agreed.

 

[X Ray]

That UGREEN 100W model is the 1 I decided on buying, with their matching power-rated cables.

I purchased a bunch of them and this is the one I decided to keep. Being able to charge the Mini 3 Pro Plus batteries at the fastest speed was my main requirement. This one checks all the boxes. Can charge my laptop at 100 watts, or at lower wattage as well, and as you mentioned, can power the charging hub, a battery in the Mini 3, the remote, and another device, all at the same time.

 

[BroomRider]

The batteries can actually be charged at 36 watts in the charging hub. This requires that the USB power supply used can configure itself to the 12v/3a charging mode. Your UGREEN 100W GaN 4 port power supply can, and will charge your batteries at 36 watts in the charging hub if using the top or second USB-C port.

Here's the thing though; you can only use one, the top or the second USB-C port. If you use both, the first and second USB-C port, it drops it down to 2.5amps (30 watts). But as long as you only use one to charge the batteries at 36 watts, you can charge other devices with the 3rd USB-C port and the USB-A port.

So for example, you can charge a battery in the hub at 36 watts with the top USB-C port, and also charge your remote with the bottom USB-C port, and your cell phone with the USB-A port, all at the same time. Just don't use the second USB-C port.

36W. I stand corrected; I was going by memory. Thank you.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Oh, one more thing.... DJI's dual USB-C 100w power supply for the Mavic 3, spec wise (didn't buy one, it was on backorder) appears to be just about as gangster as it gets. It will do the standard 5, 9, "and 12", 15, and 20 volt charging modes, but does them all at up to 5 amps. I don't remember seeing any other chargers with specs this good, and I researched a lot of them.

WOTOBEUS.

 

[Robert Youens]

Thank you so much

have you tested the watts amps and volts delivered. I have the same Amazon power supply and it's Maxing out at 23 watts in my aftermarket hub and 27 watts in my Mini 3.