Nuremberg is a major town... sigh.
So they actually use aeroscope?
All the time or just when they have suspicion?
Mini 3 Pro in the EU
- Thread starter Brojon
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So they actually use aeroscope?
All the time or just when they have suspicion?
Chunter
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Wouldn't worry too much, as long as not too many people around i think you'll be ok, depending where. i foresee early early mornings for you though 
Maybe try contacting these guys Drohne fliegen lernen in Nürnberg ❇︎ Drohnenschule Nürnberg german drone training company, they'll know the rules down to a t.
As for when and where they use aeroscope no idea, i've flown in military camps here and had no issue even though they're still in nfz's ( but empty now) , all i did was the contact dji for the permission thing on my phone and was good to go.
Back to what i said earlier, i'd just apply my own anti d1ck rules and send the drone, making sure i'm in vlos and nowhere near nature reserves of airports. BUT i have the luxury of speaking da lingo so if anything were to go wrong i'd cope.
You could also try the "sorry i don't speak the language" thing if you get caught where you're unsure.
Honestly i wouldn't worry too much, it sounds a lot but in day to day usage without causing aggro you'll get plenty of great footage.
Up in the mountains of Bavaria will be terrific, i've been there before drones and it was sooooo beautiful, you'll love it.
I believe chitty chitty bang bang castle is out of bounds for drones in the town ( because they got sick of d1cks), but if you get the last cable car before the town up, you can fly down from above without annoying anyone and get some terrific shots.
You'll be fine.
Maybe try contacting these guys Drohne fliegen lernen in Nürnberg ❇︎ Drohnenschule Nürnberg german drone training company, they'll know the rules down to a t.
As for when and where they use aeroscope no idea, i've flown in military camps here and had no issue even though they're still in nfz's ( but empty now) , all i did was the contact dji for the permission thing on my phone and was good to go.
Back to what i said earlier, i'd just apply my own anti d1ck rules and send the drone, making sure i'm in vlos and nowhere near nature reserves of airports. BUT i have the luxury of speaking da lingo so if anything were to go wrong i'd cope.
You could also try the "sorry i don't speak the language" thing if you get caught where you're unsure.
Honestly i wouldn't worry too much, it sounds a lot but in day to day usage without causing aggro you'll get plenty of great footage.
Up in the mountains of Bavaria will be terrific, i've been there before drones and it was sooooo beautiful, you'll love it.
I believe chitty chitty bang bang castle is out of bounds for drones in the town ( because they got sick of d1cks), but if you get the last cable car before the town up, you can fly down from above without annoying anyone and get some terrific shots.
You'll be fine.
Thanks for the referral - seems like they would indeed be a good resource - hopefully.Wouldn't worry too much, as long as not too many people around i think you'll be ok, depending where. i foresee early early mornings for you though
Maybe try contacting these guys Drohne fliegen lernen in Nürnberg ❇︎ Drohnenschule Nürnberg german drone training company, they'll know the rules down to a t.
You'll be fine.
The droniq App is more useful in identifying critical infrastructure where the 1:1 does not apply than Map 2 fly in my experience (1:1 applies only for federal transport routes, i.e. roads, rail, rivers etc as far as I am aware).
But Map 2 fly you can also toggle the overlay to remove the restrictions that may not apply to an individual flight such as residential areas.
German police definitely use drone detection tech in major cities, I doubt it's actually aeroscope but a German-supplied version.
The main thing is to avoid flying over critical infrastructure related to official organisations or government bodies, e.g. police stations, prisons, government buildings, energy, stadia, within airport control zones etc. You can have police at your location within 5 minutes.
In some nature areas I believe there is an exception granted for flights above 100metre when there is a commercial purpose for the flight (which might include youtube).
I have been emailing the FlyNex people and they're basically telling me that Germany still has the old rules EASA be damned. Occasionally the rule make a nod to 250g but ONLY if it doesn't have a camera.
I mentioned that EASA was supposed to unify all these laws and they said the German laws are still on the book.
Here's the link they referred me to. Basically this stuff is why I thought having a drone in Europe is a waste of time.
Can't pull over on the road and take off on teh easement because that's "special use" and requires permission. Move over a little further and then your on private land which - you guessed it, requires permission. Can't fly over property without permission unless you fly at the max 300m altitude. It's absurd - it's literally written to exclude any sort of hobby use for drones unless you're determined enough to get a gazillion permission slips. It also precludes any happenstance photos of opportunity.
Yet I see videos from all around Germany including some towns and cities. It would seem that as you say in real life nobody cares - but that doesn't negate the fact that if you get one of "those" people life could be become complicated.
I think I mentioned teh jerk in Schwartzwald that said I had to destroy my video because it could have his farm in it when I had permission from teh Gasthaus we stayed at to fly. I know that he couldn't prevent me just because his farm was in it but he was standing outside so he could "observe". Of course under the uber restrictive privacy laws then I in fact cannot because this dweeb could be in a picture and had not consented - even if he couldn't be recognized!
§ 21h LuftVO - Einzelnorm
www.gesetze-im-internet.de
Germany has both EASA and national regs. Max flight height is 120m, not 300.
The consideration that is separate to EASA rules is privacy, however the rules seem to say that overflights of residential property is forbidden, not adjacent flights. Similar to general photography, there is freedom of panorama / panoramafreiheit (which extends to drones), meaning you can take photos of buildings etc from the street or a general vantage point. It is allowed to take photos of people in public places when they are incidental to the main subject, e.g. small people in a landscape.
Knowing the rules is important so when you meet someone like this you can tell them in a short and simple way that they are wrong.
yes, my mistake - I was thinking in feet
120m is the height limit.
The thing that surprises and disconcerts me is I was under the impression that EASA consolidated the rules for all of teh EU. In fact the EASA test made no mention of local rules - merely saying for regulation (like registration as an operator) you should refer to the country's regulatory agency.
I'm not sure what the point was if it allows wholesale replacement to the EASA rules.
I understand you're not responsible - just the situation irritates me no end because I know there's no way some of these drone videos I see are made with those guidelines.
There is a similar law in the US on public photography except that people have no right to privacy in public spaces unless they are in a spot that should reasonably expected to be private. In Europe according to the rules, even if the people cannot be recognized, you are supposed to inform them and obtain permission. Sorry, that's ridiculous.
Henri Cartier- Bresson would have been locked up for sure.
Henri Cartier-Bresson - Wikipedia
Just a little heads up about "Nuremberg showing all red". In the close vicinity to the airport flying is an absolute no go, but this far bigger circle (in a slightly different shade of red) is a "Erweiterte Kontrollzone - enhanced control zone" for which you need clearance from airport security.
Seems like a bummer, but - and many people don't know this - the DFS (German flight security) which is responsible for the security of all international airports has given a general clearance to fly in that zone with some limitations, of which the important one is to not fly higher than 50m. Interestingly the Droniq app is published by DFS also, don't know why they don't put that in there.
Of course the 50m then are giving problems if you wanna use the "fly over private properties at least 100m high" ...
Seems like a bummer, but - and many people don't know this - the DFS (German flight security) which is responsible for the security of all international airports has given a general clearance to fly in that zone with some limitations, of which the important one is to not fly higher than 50m. Interestingly the Droniq app is published by DFS also, don't know why they don't put that in there.
Of course the 50m then are giving problems if you wanna use the "fly over private properties at least 100m high" ...
Actually I don't want to fly over pretty much anything in town. Even then 50m is pretty high.
I'd like to be able to get some altitude - just a couple of meters usually to get a better photograph.
Nuremberg has some killer sculptures that are a royal pain to photograph because of the low angle.
Then the external of the cathedrals/churches are also difficult to photograph from the plazas.
I'm not sure if ANY is possible given we'll be there the week before Thanksgiving and staying until a little after teh Christmas Market starts up. Weekends are out of teh question - far too many people to be safe.
Weekdays however it has been my experience the foot traffic is fairly light - this is the "old town" after all. The people that actually live there usually have a business there and it's generally pretty light until you get nearer to the Bahnhof.
Exception being near St. Sebaldus which has the Ratthaus nearby. But I'd love to get altitude shots of the castle and I can't find if it's "protected" in another sense besides being in the controlled airspace. Seriously - up then down would make me *very* happy.
The Mini 3 Pro has some pretty nice photo capability.Actual flying with video I reserve for out of town limits usually.
I know it is silly, but the EU rules are valid in all of the EU only as a minimum set of safety guidelines. All countries are allowed to add their own rules and they do!
All countries all have their own version of an interactive app (often including applicable Notams!) where drones can be flown and it is wise to adhere to that. In Germany it is Droniq, in The Netherlands GoDrone, France: GeoPortail, UK: Drone Assist (UK has rules that are almost the same as the EU rules, here and there a bit more realistic).
The DJI map is rudimentary compared to what these apps offer.
In general: be realistic and reasonable, respect others privacy and stay friendly. Police hardly know the drone laws and normally only come when complaints are received.
A test like Trust is not needed for drones lighter than 250 grams, but if the drone has a camera, the drone operator must be registered. A registration in one country is valid EU wide and remember the UK is not in the EU anymore. As a starter try this site.
One special thing in Germany: you must have a fireproof label with your registration number attached to your drone!
All countries all have their own version of an interactive app (often including applicable Notams!) where drones can be flown and it is wise to adhere to that. In Germany it is Droniq, in The Netherlands GoDrone, France: GeoPortail, UK: Drone Assist (UK has rules that are almost the same as the EU rules, here and there a bit more realistic).
The DJI map is rudimentary compared to what these apps offer.
In general: be realistic and reasonable, respect others privacy and stay friendly. Police hardly know the drone laws and normally only come when complaints are received.
A test like Trust is not needed for drones lighter than 250 grams, but if the drone has a camera, the drone operator must be registered. A registration in one country is valid EU wide and remember the UK is not in the EU anymore. As a starter try this site.
One special thing in Germany: you must have a fireproof label with your registration number attached to your drone!
Thanks. I have the EASA certification which you need before you can register in any EU country to fly using a drone with a camera. I'm registered in Germany so no worries there.
I have the tags - I get them from drohnen.de. great company!
I'm not going to the UK, not sure how that came up.
PHZ
Well-Known Member
DroneIQ is a very helpful app for Germany. It won’t help you in Austria, though. Not sure if there is an Austrian equivalent?
A fireproof sticker is not necessary anymore, can be just a paper one with the eId on it.
Please note that Germans are quick to call the authorities. Flying in the middle of Nuremberg will be challenging - good luck!
Please note that Germans are quick to call the authorities. Flying in the middle of Nuremberg will be challenging - good luck!
Well there's 20€ I could have saved
I actually like Drohnen Shops tags. Excellently made.Yes they are. The Frankish have always been somewhat hidebound and love the letter of the law.
I remember once I was headed to teh Bahnhof and the crossing light was red. It was 6:30 in the morning and not one automobile or train.
I started to walk across and this 30-ish guy grabbed my arm, pointed to the crosswalk signal and said "NEIN!"
lol. Of course I jaywalked anyway but he was pretty steamed about the scofflaw in his midst.
If I did this in Frankfurt nobody would notice much less comment.
I've given this some thought and did a little poking around.
Are you saying it's an understanding you can fly in the enhanced control zone without special permission?
If you need special permission is it possible to request and get clearance from within the Droniq app.
I'm curious how similar it is to LAANC in that many apps can request and get authorization almost instantly (when it works
)Yes, that's basically what I'm saying. There is a - drum roll -I've given this some thought and did a little poking around.
Are you saying it's an understanding you can fly in the enhanced control zone without special permission?
If you need special permission is it possible to request and get clearance from within the Droniq app.
I'm curious how similar it is to LAANC in that many apps can request and get authorization almost instantly (when it works
Allgemeinverfügung zur Erteilung von Flugverkehrskontrollfreigaben zur
Durchführung von Flügen mit Flugmodellen und unbemannten
Luftfahrtsystemen in Kontrollzonen von Flugplätzen nach § 27d Abs. 1
LuftVG an den internationalen Verkehrsflughäfen mit DFS-Flugplatzkontrolle
So that's a general permission for flying drones, not even a request is necessary. Valid for all airports that are controlled by DFS - which is every international one, including Nuremberg.
I attach the PDF, it's all German of course.
generally speaking you are not allowed to fly over the areas in front of commercial establishments during open hours, even in A1 class, as may constituted an assembly of people.Actually I don't want to fly over pretty much anything in town. Even then 50m is pretty high.
I'd like to be able to get some altitude - just a couple of meters usually to get a better photograph.
Nuremberg has some killer sculptures that are a royal pain to photograph because of the low angle.
Then the external of the cathedrals/churches are also difficult to photograph from the plazas.
I'm not sure if ANY is possible given we'll be there the week before Thanksgiving and staying until a little after teh Christmas Market starts up. Weekends are out of teh question - far too many people to be safe.
Weekdays however it has been my experience the foot traffic is fairly light - this is the "old town" after all. The people that actually live there usually have a business there and it's generally pretty light until you get nearer to the Bahnhof.
Exception being near St. Sebaldus which has the Ratthaus nearby. But I'd love to get altitude shots of the castle and I can't find if it's "protected" in another sense besides being in the controlled airspace. Seriously - up then down would make me *very* happy.
Actual flying with video I reserve for out of town limits usually.
What is an ‘assembly of people’? | EASA
An assembly of people is a crowd of people. It is not defined by a specific number of people, but is related to the possibility for an individual to move around in order to avoid the consequences of a drone which is out of control. If a group of people are so densely packed that their...
www.easa.europa.eu
If you want to fly in an area like this you would need to find a take off area like a courtyard, small park etc, or else go there early morning before shops open.
That's exactly what I plan to do.generally speaking you are not allowed to fly over the areas in front of commercial establishments during open hours, even in A1 class, as may constituted an assembly of people.
What is an ‘assembly of people’? | EASA
An assembly of people is a crowd of people. It is not defined by a specific number of people, but is related to the possibility for an individual to move around in order to avoid the consequences of a drone which is out of control. If a group of people are so densely packed that their...
If you want to fly in an area like this you would need to find a take off area like a courtyard, small park etc, or else go there early morning before shops open.
I have common sense - if it's more than 4 or 5 people I'm not stupid enough to fly. Even so 30 meters distance is what is required. Everything I want to take images of is near big plazas or wide open spaces.
Thanks for teh PDF - I translated it and will read later.
So if I turn off that general control space I can see what is really restricted?
How is it you know when permission must be obtained?
Thanks - you folks are being very helpful!
There is another map tool supplied by one of the German goverment ministries (though note they don't guarantee it's accurate), but which it is easier to see the critical infrastructure sites:
dipul
maptool-dpul-prod.dfs.de
This is what it looks like when filtered for Nurnberg, I turned off the general residential and industrial filters.
Apart from the airport control zone (effective to 50m) there is also a restricted zone around a helicopter landing pad. (Note that it is normally easy to get permission from the DFS to fly above 50 metres if you book the shoot 10 days ahead on their website.)
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