ND filters for still pictures

[747P4]

Once more you seem to be missing the point regarding this thread, it is all about using an ND filter on a drone for still photography, not video. And with that in mind, you have been told numerous times, and I would assume you would know (there I go assuming again, right?) that there is absolutely no DOF concerns to be taken into account, when shooting aerial photos with a drone. The reason being, because the lens will not show any difference whether you are shooting at f2 or f11. So, there is no point on earth bringing the remarks about DOF into this conversation when discussing drone photography, with the current cameras we have available to us.

We are not talking about Meta4's "40 years of picture taking", and Meta4 is NOT talking about you shooting your DSLR with an ND filter, where you may need the added DOF that an ND filter might give you. He is speaking about drone photography. We do not care what you use with your DSLR because this thread is no even remotely concerned about you shooting with ND filters to gain any DOF advantages. Please understand that, the poor horse is being beaten to death by you. If you continue to talk about DOF, it seems on your end, that the gates are down and the lights are flashing here, but there just does not seem to be a train coming along! I am beginning to think that you have the whole six pack here, but you lack the little plastic thingy that holds them all together. No disrespect meant towards you by the way, have a pleasant evening.

Perhaps you don't understand about photography pertaining to drones!

Linky for you just for your edification, no less:

REVIEW: DJI's Zenmuse X7 is Hands Down the Best Camera for Aerial Cinematography Under $10K

DJI's Zenmuse X7:
Sharpness
All four lenses looked sharp edge-to-edge and the focus rolloff looked great. The Super 35mm sensor lends a more cinematic and shallow depth of field than is found in the majority of drone footage. Between the Super 35mm sensor and the 6K resolution, you can capture details in small, far-off and out of focus objects (like leaves, tree branches, bricks) that would look like dappled watercolors on a smaller sensor with higher compression.


Pictures? Have you some to share? Haven't seen any yet?

Your quote:
"NOT talking about you shooting your DSLR with an ND filter, where you may need the added DOF that an ND filter might give you."

I clearly stated that one picture was with a Digital canon EOS M50 camera and its use with an ND filter.
You need to go back and re-read what has been written, as I fear you need to keep up with the thread conversation! Clearly you are really not understanding the whole thread either.

Take a look at the lens availability for the Inspire 2 and perhaps as a professional cinematic photographer you would understand about DOF.
BTW, I would appreciate the personal jibes be put to rest and I really don't need to be lectured

The statement "I am beginning to think that you have the whole six pack here, but you lack the little plastic thingy that holds them all together" is out of order and I take Umbridge to that! Nuff said OK.

Now, as requested once again, show me some of your pictures...Put your money where your mouth is>>>no disrespect, like your statement before in regard to the 6 pack (don't go there again please).

 

[Cymruflyer]

Just to appease you, but I do not use the drone much for still shots, it is more for video. Here are a few from the drone. No ND filter used, nor needed here either, no filter of any kind used. Yes I could have used one but there would have been no advantage/change to the images.

 

[747P4]

Finally, redemption!
Nice pics though.

 

[Cymruflyer]

Perhaps you don't understand about photography pertaining to drones!

Linky for you just for your edification, no less:

REVIEW: DJI's Zenmuse X7 is Hands Down the Best Camera for Aerial Cinematography Under $10K

DJI's Zenmuse X7:
Sharpness
All four lenses looked sharp edge-to-edge and the focus rolloff looked great. The Super 35mm sensor lends a more cinematic and shallow depth of field than is found in the majority of drone footage. Between the Super 35mm sensor and the 6K resolution, you can capture details in small, far-off and out of focus objects (like leaves, tree branches, bricks) that would look like dappled watercolors on a smaller sensor with higher compression.


Pictures? Have you some to share? Haven't seen any yet?

Your quote:
"NOT talking about you shooting your DSLR with an ND filter, where you may need the added DOF that an ND filter might give you."

I clearly stated that one picture was with a Digital canon EOS M50 camera and its use with an ND filter.
You need to go back and re-read what has been written, as I fear you need to keep up with the thread conversation! Clearly you are really not understanding the whole thread either.

Take a look at the lens availability for the Inspire 2 and perhaps as a professional cinematic photographer you would understand about DOF.
BTW, I would appreciate the personal jibes be put to rest and I really don't need to be lectured

The statement "I am beginning to think that you have the whole six pack here, but you lack the little plastic thingy that holds them all together" is out of order and I take Umbridge to that! Nuff said OK.

Now, as requested once again, show me some of your pictures...Put your money where your mouth is>>>no disrespect, like your statement before in regard to the 6 pack (don't go there again please).

Sadly missing the theme in this thread... it was about the OP and his drone, not about professional cameras on high end drones most of us could not afford, or would need if we could afford them. You keep throwing up smoke to try and shy away from what your originally posted here.

The fact remains that even the high end drones you keep pointing us to, have a limited use of DOF for aerial filming because the subject is so far away that there is no need to be concerned with DOF and the use of ND filters for still photography. And these high end camera/drone setups you keep pointing to are almost never used for still shots which is what this whole thread is about, no matter how much you try and cloud the issue.

My photography has nothing to do with anything here, nor is anyone else's photography. The fact remains that there is no real use for an ND filter for the average photographer using his drone as a still camera. You need to understand and accept that fact, it will not change, no matter how much you try and blow smoke around.

 

[Cymruflyer]

And these are not with my drone nor are any of them with an ND filter or any other filter. But you kept on asking for my photography, so now you have it. I understand lighting and DOF and with a DSLR you need to be concerned with that, but not, I say NOT with a drone shooting aerial still photos.

 

[Cymruflyer]

Finally, redemption!
Nice pics though.

Thank you.

 

[Meta4]

Nice pictures
Did you take them?.

That's like saying ... your wife's pretty. Did you rent her?
You can go jump

ps ... you have no idea what you are doing with your filters

 

[monchan]

I know what ND filters can do for video recording but are they used for still photography also?

ND filters can be used for drone photography, to create effects or atmosphere. If that is the shot desired. Mostly blur on moving
objects, clouds, water, cars, good for light trails. However as the drone is at the mercy of wind. It might be difficult to achieve.
But can be very useful so you want to shoot a waterfall while bluring the water but from a birds eye view not accessible with a DSLR, then a drone might be an option, but only if conditions are good for said shot, or a persons skill level too I guess. ND filters will reduce the amount of light reaching the sensor, needing slower shutter speeds. This is what creates the blur. While most people will shoot without ND filters to get as sharp a shot as possible, as the shutter speed is much faster no blur occurs resulting crisp images.

Checkout the youtube vid. posted by polarpro the makers of ND filters. At around the 7 minute mark there is a good example
of what can be done. You could say that shot could be taken with a DSLR and tripod. But say you are hiking and dont have a tripod or long enough lens, then again the drone is an option. ND filters are not useless for photography, and certainly have a place in some peoples kit bag, not everyones though, but its the same with shoot with a DSLR some people love long exposure shots, some macro. Depends on what kind of thing you are into or what kind of shots you are interested in.

 

[747P4]

Sadly missing the theme in this thread... it was about the OP and his drone, not about professional cameras on high end drones most of us could not afford, or would need if we could afford them. You keep throwing up smoke to try and shy away from what your originally posted here.

The fact remains that even the high end drones you keep pointing us to, have a limited use of DOF for aerial filming because the subject is so far away that there is no need to be concerned with DOF and the use of ND filters for still photography. And these high end camera/drone setups you keep pointing to are almost never used for still shots which is what this whole thread is about, no matter how much you try and cloud the issue.

My photography has nothing to do with anything here, nor is anyone else's photography. The fact remains that there is no real use for an ND filter for the average photographer using his drone as a still camera. You need to understand and accept that fact, it will not change, no matter how much you try and blow smoke around.

I believe it was you that decided to ask me why would I use ND filters in cloudy conditions and so the thread went from a positive vidbe to a 4 page drama queen thread. Why blame me on "missing the theme of the thread", hummmmm!!!

"Sadly missing the theme in this thread... it was about the OP and his drone, not about professional cameras on high end drones most of us could not afford, or would need if we could afford them. You keep throwing up smoke to try and shy away from what your originally posted here.


"My photography has nothing to do with anything here, nor is anyone else's photography. The fact remains that there is no real use for an ND filter for the average photographer using his drone as a still camera. You need to understand and accept that fact, it will not change, no matter how much you try and blow smoke around."

There you again, making assumptions; That's your opinion about the use of ND filters, which you cannot say categorically is what other members believe! I do not try and blow smoke around as a general rule!

You keep reminding me that ND filters are not needed in still photographs using drones, but because I disagree with your comments you can't seem to accept my opinion. I merely pointed out in my response that they do have benefits. I don't PP, much hence my use for them, as I don't have time to do that!

The use of ND filters, as asked by the OP, are frequently used by many drone pilots, new or seasoned, and you will find that they are indeed used far more by members on this forum, even if they don't want to respond to these threads!

What you use your drone for and what I use it for are worlds apart, and I really don't care that much.
If you take the trouble to look back at what you wrote in response to my thread, then you would probably say something different in regard to how ND filters could and would benefit users of drones You cannot say to new drone users that they should or shouldn't use ND filters, or any other type of filters for stills, that is up to the individual.!

Because I use ND filters in low light/difficult lighting conditions, and stated so, I didn't quite agree with your views/lack of knowledge or whatever. I am an semi pro/amateur and I am always trying to get better results as it stands, even if I don't PP much!

It's your choice as to what drone or camera you use, or what the OP uses. As I mentioned, the I2 was used as an example with regard to DOF ,with the different lens's available for this drone, which you were adamant in stating "wasn't a problem" with drones. Generally, DOF in M2 drones isn't a problem, but can be with other applications. Again, your blanket statement that DOF didn't apply is wrong, considering that it is in some shape, fashion or form regarding drones of one type or another. ND filters allow for different apertures/shutter speeds leading to DOF relevant to lens application, but clearly it is you that doesn't grasp the rudiments of photography and the use of ND filters and the other poster involved with this discussion.

My choice of uploading images from the drone and DSLR cameras using ND filters was to highlight the use of said filters. ND filters have more uses than video which is sad as they are a real boon in high/low light conditions. Time lapse photography using ND filters at night is almost a given depending on ambient conditions.

I will leave you with two items tonight:
The first I live with everyday I fly or teach new jet pilots:

1) A quote from my true friend who died racing in the IOM TT:
"When the racing starts, the bull **** stops"!

2) A final picture taken with my Mavic Pro with ND filters
Nothing more to say from me, other than the fact that as a fellow Welshman, I didn't see your true colours!


Nos da!

 

[747P4]

You can go jump

ps ... you have no idea what you are doing with your filters

I asked if you took the pictures, what is wrong with that! Chill out there pal!

 

[747P4]

That's like saying ... your wife's pretty. Did you rent her?
You can go jump

ps ... you have no idea what you are doing with your filters

That is totally uncalled for!
I understand that you cannot accept that the use of ND filters is not generally needed, but at the same time accept people do use them, What's wrong with that!.

 

[747P4]

Thank you.

And an appraisal, bad or good, about my pictures would have been a nice gesture!
Therein lies the difference betwixt you and I.
I always acknowledge and applaud work, as I see fit, but then on the "other foot" people are not so gracious these days.

Peace out

 

[monchan]

I Think this is a great example of the use of a ND filter on a drone (compliments to the chef) And I think this stands as proof enough they have a place
in drone still photography. I can understand people`s views that drones are not the ideal tool for long exposure shots and they probably are not. But this shot
shows they can be used to great effect, not just to blur water. I`d also like to say that what DJI have done with their gimbles is nothing short of miraculous. I would not have thought a shot like this would have been posible with a drone, but with the quality of drones/ gimbles improving rapidly, ways change. If zoomed this image might not be as sharp as something taken on a tripod. ( I have not looked) but how are you going to get up there? These days more and more become possible..

View attachment 63443
San Antonio, TX

If you use long exposure during day time, eventually, you can make the traffic disappear with a filter, and enough of an exposure. King of cool, but not always what you may want.

The 4 sec exposure worked in the case of this sunrise.
It created long streaks of lights along the freeway.
ND 4 filter was sufficient, since the ambiant light was low to begin with. (Other than the freeway being well lit obviously)
All bets are off when it is windy, and in fact, I wouldn't even bother do long exposure then.

I would use a ND 16 during daytime when it is bright. ND 8 between low light and the brightest part.

I don't do videos, so I can't help you there....

 

[Cymruflyer]

Instead of changing the aperture to reduce the amount of light in the image, we simply add on a ND filter, then adjust the exposure to the amount we want. It is easy and very effective, plus we can still set the aperture to a low value for sharper images, or wide open for a shallow DOF.

Just my 2 cents.

I can see clearly the difference in both images but maybe that’s applicable to individual taste, who knows.

Whatever floats ya boat just do it, but not the Nike way.
Peace out old bean!

Why would you even need to add the ND filter here, unless you want to get the movement of the clouds and the water? There is no other reason. This is either early morning or later in the evening, so you have low light levels anyway. If you add an ND filter you further reduce your light levels and therefore have to have a tripod if land based and if shot with a drone, you further risk movement in the image because you have create a situation with your ND filter that warrants and even slower shutter speed than would have been necessary without the ND filter.

Therefore, by adding an ND filter you have just cuased yourself more problems with a drone, which is not something anyone in theor right mind would want to do, if they wanted to get a half way decent image. If this was shot on the ground, then again there is absolutely no need for the ND filter because you have nothing in the ND filtered shot that has you showing us selective focus due to DOF requirements. And you could have simply slowed your shutter speed and added your increased aperture without using an ND filter.

Showing us this example just goes to further solidify the comment that you do not seem to understand when to use the ND filter and when not to. You have not helped yourself here, but then again, this is not about you, it is all about the OP who asked the question, should he use an ND filter when taking still shots with his drone. And once again, as has been stated to the OP and to you numerous times, the answer is... NO, you do not need to use an ND filter when taking still shots with a drone, unless you have a very valid reason. None of your examples have shown a valid reason for the ND filter use, in fact doing what you suggest creates a greater risk of getting a poor image from a drone, due to movement caused by the use of an ND filter which means the camera will need to use an even slower shutter speed.

 

[Cymruflyer]

I actually prefer the image on the left. End of the day I guess it’s personal preference. We dont all like the same type of music,and we would never agree on what music is best. I guess art/photo interpretation is the same

I fully agree with what you say about personal preference, however, this post was not about what someone's personal preference is in one photo over another photo. This posting was about the OP asking if he should be using an ND filter when taking still shots with his drone. The correct answer to that is no! It is never advisable to use an ND filter with a drone when taking still shots, because a drone is not the best platform to achieve sharp images when using longer exposures, which is what an ND filter will force the camera to do.

We are all trying to make 747 understand that his suggestion of using an ND filter is simply wrong advice, to what may well be a newbie to drones and or photography, using a drone. I quite like the use of an ND filter from time to time, when it is used to slow the shutter and create streaks of clouds and milky looking oceans but these are to be used with a tripod when making long exposure, not while trying to use your drone.

 

[Cymruflyer]

There is motion blur on the right image...looks nice, but for me that would be a special case.

This is true, but the slower shutter shot on the right has also been altered regarding the added warmth or saturation of the colours in the house and ground around it. An ND filter alone would not create that added warmth, therefore, some other postediting has been done to that image, nothing wrong with that of course, most of us do that, but the use of the ND filter alone has done nothing to enhance the image other than make things blurred from movement. And that is something you do not want to risk when taking a drone shot because it is not stuck hard and fast to the ground like a tripod would be.

The photo this guy put forward to show us, is irrelevant anyway, because it looks like it was taken from the ground using a tripod and a DSLR, which has nothing to do with the question the OP asked at the start of all this.

 

[747P4]

I fully agree with what you say about personal preference, however, this post was not about what someone's personal preference is in one photo over another photo. This posting was about the OP asking if he should be using an ND filter when taking still shots with his drone. The correct answer to that is no! It is never advisable to use an ND filter with a drone when taking still shots, because a drone is not the best platform to achieve sharp images when using longer exposures, which is what an ND filter will force the camera to do.

We are all trying to make 747 understand that his suggestion of using an ND filter is simply wrong advice, to what may well be a newbie to drones and or photography, using a drone. I quite like the use of an ND filter from time to time, when it is used to slow the shutter and create streaks of clouds and milky looking oceans but these are to be used with a tripod when making long exposure, not while trying to use your drone.

"We are all trying to make 747 understand that his suggestion of using an ND filter is simply wrong advice, to what may well be a newbie to drones and or photography, using a drone."

That is your opinion and you are incorrect making assumptions that that using ND filters is "wrong" in drone still photography.
If you cannot take constructive criticism, then it seems that both you and Sar can't accept other peoples opinions when you both could be "incorrect". What people shoot with and how they do it is up to that individual and I am not attempting to say otherwise and have never stated so, thus far.

Once again, per my previous responses I merely stated that the use of ND filters has it's place in drone and other aspects of still photography.

You take the biscuit, as they say!

 

[monchan]

Come on people enough is enough. This thread is four page long and there is almost no helpful posts what so ever.
This should be locked.
[QUOTE="Cymruflyer, post: 676821, member: 25757" This posting was about the OP asking if he should be using an ND filter when taking still shots with his drone. The correct answer to that is no! It is never advisable to use an ND filter with a drone when taking still shots, because a drone is not the best platform to achieve sharp images when using longer exposures, which is what an ND filter will force the camera to do.

I respectfully have to disagree with you. Jeplane`s post 7 and 8 are great examples of how to use ND filters on a drone. No way you are getting a tripod up there

" I quite like the use of an ND filter from time to time, when it is used to slow the shutter and create streaks of clouds and milky looking oceans but these are to be used with a tripod when making long exposure, not while trying to use your drone."[/QUOTE]

Always?? The video featured in my post # 68 also has very good results with ND filters. While I agree that tripods are a safer way to take long exposures, with the current gimbles on these drones good result are achievable. Drones have the advantage of being able to get where people and tripods can not.

When you say "The correct answer to that is no! It is never advisable to use an ND filter with a drone when taking still shots"
I think jeplanes posts and the above video show that current tech can get results that many people would be happy with.

I think this thread has too much heat, and everyone should step away from it.
OP Youtube has some videos if you search, sad really that on a forum like this, this get this heated.

 

[747P4]

The difference is that you have a very muddled understanding of what you are doing, you cast aspersions on others ability with no reason to, you demand they show work and then when I show you some excellent examples of my work all you can say is .. Did I take them !!!
You're an arrogant, know-little **** .
If ever you need help with your flight data, you can sort it out for yourself.

You have a very high opinion of yourself (Captain *******)
Look back and read your responses!
Once challenged and knowing that you cannot accept "other peoples views or opinions" you come across as a "bully" and a cantankerous little man
What was your reason for writing a response with regard to "go jump".
Perhaps you were relating to "people" who commit suicide, as this is what I initially thought. Indeed, if that is what you were thinking then you are not a man at all and clearly demonstrate your lack of compassion for those families left without loved ones.

Lastly, I am quite "au fait" in reading flight data logs, so thanks for your kind words I don't need your help

 

[Cymruflyer]

And an appraisal, bad or good, about my pictures would have been a nice gesture!
Therein lies the difference betwixt you and I.
I always acknowledge and applaud work, as I see fit, but then on the "other foot" people are not so gracious these days.

Peace out

Bore da 747P4

There was no need for you to comment on my images, and there was no need for me or anyone else to comment on your images, because this thread has not been about either of us, nor our photos, it has been about the question of using an ND filter when taking still shots with a drone. You chose to post photos, not us, you then kept asking and asking and asking and asking us to post some of our images, so we did, for no other reason than to appease you. As far as I was concerned, you were posting your images to try and aide your suggestion that an ND filter was a good thing to use when taking drone still shots. We did not expect that you wanted us all to say wow, what a great photographer you are.

I rarely post any photos here, because I am not here to boast or show off, I am here mostly to learn, but accassionaly to speak up if I feel that someone has given less than correct advise to another, and sometimes to help someone out who has a question about a subject I may have greater knowledge about than they do.

As to your photos, there is nothing wrong with any of them, they are fine, however, none of them benefitted from the use of an ND. You could have achieve the exact same results without the use of an ND filter on either your Nikon, your Canon, or your drone photos, with one exception. You may not have been able to slow the shutter sufficiently, to get the blurred clouds and water in one of your images, be that sun rise or sunset, I really don't care which.

With that said, not being there and seeing the ambient light values, I can not say for certain if that would have been possible or not. It may have been that with such low light and no use of the ND filter, you could have slowed your shutter down sufficiently to create the movement, by using as low an ISO as possible and using as high an f-stop as possible, to achieve the same thing without using an ND filter. Therefore, if that would have been possible, again, there was no earthly reason to go to the bother of fitting an ND filter when you were having to adjust the shutter, ISO and aperture anyway. By adding the un-needed ND filter, you simply created more work for yourself than necessary.