ND filters? Which ones are actually useful?

[shadow3467]

I want to do long exposure and hyperlapses so I will likely need the 1000 ND

But what about other ones?

Is the polarized filter actually useful for photos?

Also does anyone know any promo codes for free well? $20 shipping for a $50 purchase kinda hurts

 

[edcMavicPilots]

Polarizers have some good and some bad to them. The good thing is that they can, under the right circumstances, make reflective surfaces not reflect and can give some extra apparent saturation.

The problem comes with polarizing a blue sky which leaves the sky luminosity uneven in a gradient kind of way. This is especially true with wide angle lenses as we have in drones.

I used to try to use them but ultimately decided not worth it for me.

 

[MS Coast]

Polarizers have some good and some bad to them. The good thing is that they can, under the right circumstances, make reflective surfaces not reflect and can give some extra apparent saturation.

The problem comes with polarizing a blue sky which leaves the sky luminosity uneven in a gradient kind of way. This is especially true with wide angle lenses as we have in drones.

I used to try to use them but ultimately decided not worth it for me.

The big problem with polarizers on drones is that you can't adjust them during flight. You have to compose the photo and position the drone to suit the polarizer rather than adjust the polarizer to suit the photo.

 

[edcMavicPilots]

The big problem with polarizers on drones is that you can't adjust them during flight. You have to compose the photo and position the drone to suit the polarizer rather than adjust the polarizer to suit the photo.

Yea you can kind of think through a set of shots with 90 degree sun angle but that's sketchy in the real world if you're picky about compositions the way I am.

 

[shadow3467]

If I get only 1 filter, which should I get? Something good for daytime shooting, as well as longer exposure

 

[FLDave]

Polarizing filters can be great for still photography with a land camera (not a drone camera). I've used them years ago and would adjust the filter rotation for each shot as needed to get the effect I wanted. If the camera was moved to a different location the filter needed to be adjusted. None of this is possible by remote control to a drone camera.

 

[akdrone]

If I get only 1 filter, which should I get? Something good for daytime shooting, as well as longer exposure

it doesn't really work that way but if I had to choose it would be a 125 I guess. But if -not- used for hyperlapse then you are looking to use it (video) to provide a shutter speed of 2x frame rate and there is no single ND filter that will do that. Of course even 3x is better than 20 times so I would probably suggest a 125 but you really want to buy them in a set. The 1000 is a good bet for Hyperlapse but you can often get away with even a 250 or 500 or such for hyperlapse because even then you don't always want the absolute slowest shutter speed since sometimes it's windy and you just can't use 1/5 or such so the bottom line is you really need a set or you will be limited in your use of them. Polarizers are not (IMHO) smart to combine with ND filters in most cases. Since they only work with ~90 deg to the sun they make the sky funky but they are super helpful when shooting water and do add to saturation for most foliage so they can be very useful.

 

[RogerDH]

... to provide a shutter speed of 2x frame rate ...

I know that virtually everyone in the universe expresses it that way, but I'm still on my futile crusade to correct the math: The objective is a shutter speed that's half the frame rate, not twice. If you express both in the same units, 30 frames per second is 1/30th second per frame, and you want an exposure of half that, 1/60th second per frame.

But I'm not just being pedantic; I believe that expressing it correctly makes it easier to understand what's happening. Consider that this is also called the "180 degree shutter rule" because it attempts to emulate the rotating shutter in a film movie camera, which is open for half the rotation. If the shutter is open half the time, that means the length of the motion blurs is half the distance moved from one frame to the next. If you want the shutter open half the time, doesn't expressing that as a shutter speed of half the frame rate make that objective easier to understand?

 

[FLDave]

I know that virtually everyone in the universe expresses it that way, but I'm still on my futile crusade to correct the math: The objective is a shutter speed that's half the frame rate, not twice. If you express both in the same units, 30 frames per second is 1/30th second per frame, and you want an exposure of half that, 1/60th second per frame.

But I'm not just being pedantic; I believe that expressing it correctly makes it easier to understand what's happening. Consider that this is also called the "180 degree shutter rule" because it attempts to emulate the rotating shutter in a film movie camera, which is open for half the rotation. If the shutter is open half the time, that means the length of the motion blurs is half the distance moved from one frame to the next. If you want the shutter open half the time, doesn't expressing that as a shutter speed of half the frame rate make that objective easier to understand?

Thanks for the information. I never could figure out why the shutter speed was expressed at the 180 degree rule. Now it makes since, and with a little technical history.

 

[Glenh]

Polarizers have some good and some bad to them. The good thing is that they can, under the right circumstances, make reflective surfaces not reflect and can give some extra apparent saturation.

The problem comes with polarizing a blue sky which leaves the sky luminosity uneven in a gradient kind of way. This is especially true with wide angle lenses as we have in drones.

I used to try to use them but ultimately decided not worth it for me.

Too many options, Camera settings, filters, post production. A simple workflow?

 

[MS Coast]

Too many options, Camera settings, filters, post production. A simple workflow?

Set everything to auto. The results will be wonderful.

Then start learning about options and opportunities while you're enjoying the drone and camera, as needed.

 

[akdrone]

I know that virtually everyone in the universe expresses it that way, but I'm still on my futile crusade to correct the math: The objective is a shutter speed that's half the frame rate, not twice. If you express both in the same units, 30 frames per second is 1/30th second per frame, and you want an exposure of half that, 1/60th second per frame.

But I'm not just being pedantic; I believe that expressing it correctly makes it easier to understand what's happening. Consider that this is also called the "180 degree shutter rule" because it attempts to emulate the rotating shutter in a film movie camera, which is open for half the rotation. If the shutter is open half the time, that means the length of the motion blurs is half the distance moved from one frame to the next. If you want the shutter open half the time, doesn't expressing that as a shutter speed of half the frame rate make that objective easier to understand?

You are from most peoples perspective being pedantic. That is to say being unnecessarily precise. When people refer to 2X they are simply referring to the denominator. People speak colloquially and in doing so are able to express a thought in a manner that other people understand whether it is precisely correct or not. As you have implied virtually everybody refers to it with that 2X factor and in doing so it makes sense to everyone in spite of the fact that it is technically incorrect. I’ve been doing photography since 1969 and I’m very aware of the incorrectness of that expression but it is nonetheless how nearly everybody refers to that shutter speed and frame rate relationship. I and others could choose to express it as 1/2 which would in fact for most people be more confusing so I choose to be informative. Choosing to be precise with language at the cost of other people being confused which your commentary seems to admit would happen is pretty much the definition of pedantic.

 

[RogerDH]

You are from most peoples perspective being pedantic. That is to say being unnecessarily precise. When people refer to 2X they are simply referring to the denominator. People speak colloquially and in doing so are able to express a thought in a manner that other people understand whether it is precisely correct or not. As you have implied virtually everybody refers to it with that 2X factor and in doing so it makes sense to everyone in spite of the fact that it is technically incorrect. I’ve been doing photography since 1969 and I’m very aware of the incorrectness of that expression but it is nonetheless how nearly everybody refers to that shutter speed and frame rate relationship. I and others could choose to express it as 1/2 which would in fact for most people be more confusing so I choose to be informative. Choosing to be precise with language at the cost of other people being confused which your commentary seems to admit would happen is pretty much the definition of pedantic.

I don't think either way of expressing it makes much sense until you give an example, and it's the same example! My point is, expressing it correctly actually makes more sense, especially if you explain that the objective it to have the shutter open half the time (which is rarely explained). YMMV

 

[CanadaDrone]

The problem with fixed aperture drones is that you need a wide range of ND filters if you want to take your video shooting seriously. For example, on a drone with a variable aperture, you could set your exposure for F4 with a ND16 and avoid having to land and swap to a ND8 or ND32 simply by adjusting the aperture to F2.8 or F5.6 respectively. On a fixed aperture drone, if the lighting changes mid-flight, your options are:

1) Land and swap ND filters
2) Adjust a much more compromising parameter of the exposure triangle (ISO or shutter speed)
3) Deal with it later in post

Polarizers are a nightmare to use on drones (if you care about good, even footage anyway) because the level of polarization changes relative to your orientation to the sun. At 90 degrees the polarization is strongest and at 180 degrees there is no polarization. So, if you want even footage, you need to fly a carefully planned route with no deviation to your angle to the sun. That's often not practical and honestly just annoying. With a traditional camera you don't have this issue, because you can simply reach to the front of the camera and rotate the polarizer to adjust the polarization level. For still photos on a drone, polarizers are slightly less annoying, but you still need to set the orientation of the polarizer on the ground with prior knowledge of the direction you will be facing to take the picture once in the sky. After you take your photo(s) you need to land the drone and put a regular ND filter back on, again assuming you want nice even footage. One last complication is that polarizers on wide angle lenses are not uniform, so you will often times end up with parts of the sky that are darker than others.

Regarding ND filters, because the M3P has a fixed aperture of F1.7, which is quite fast (slightly more than 1 and 1/3 stop faster than F2.8), you need stronger ND filters than you do on most other drones all else equal. I would buy ND8 up to ND64 at least, probably also ND128 if you ever shoot above light colored sand or snow in sunlight. Compared to a Mini 2, for example, which has a fixed aperture of F2.8, you need a ND filter a full stop stronger to get a similar exposure, all else equal, so if you were using a ND8 on your Mini 2, you would need a ND16 on the M3P in the same conditions and exposure settings.

 

[Cymru]

Polarizing filters can be great for still photography with a land camera (not a drone camera). I've used them years ago and would adjust the filter rotation for each shot as needed to get the effect I wanted. If the camera was moved to a different location the filter needed to be adjusted. None of this is possible by remote control to a drone camera.

Remotely no but its perfectly possible to set the polarisation needed for a specific shot pre-flight then take off to get the image.
I use a CPL a lot on drones doing just that.

 

[mobilehomer]

If your camera has the bezel with no glass, like most DJI, I suggest a UV filter. If for no other reason than lens protection in case of crash.

 

[CanadaDrone]

If you're picky about color, you need to be careful with UV filters. UV filters are designed for film cameras and all modern image sensors already have UV coatings on the sensor itself. Using a UV filter where it's not needed can occasionally put an unpleasant color cast on the image which may be difficult (or just annoying) to remove in post. Depending on the quality of the filter they can also lower light transmission noticeably.

This is the reason why Neutral Color or "Protector" filters exist in the traditional camera world, as they have no effect whatsoever on the image, but I've never looked into them for drones.

I'm not sure about the M3P specifically but usually the front-most element on DJI lenses is plastic anyway.

 

[tog_rafer]

I had issue with their ridiculous postage costs, but knew that I wanted the polarised set (Bright day) but didn't want to double up on the nd, so also added the long exposure pack. Both came to $100 so postage was free. Now I'll have a seamless option from ND4 - ND2000.

 

[edcMavicPilots]

The problem with fixed aperture drones is that you need a wide range of ND filters if you want to take your video shooting seriously. For example, on a drone with a variable aperture, you could set your exposure for F4 with a ND16 and avoid having to land and swap to a ND8 or ND32 simply by adjusting the aperture to F2.8 or F5.6 respectively. On a fixed aperture drone, if the lighting changes mid-flight, your options are:

1) Land and swap ND filters
2) Adjust a much more compromising parameter of the exposure triangle (ISO or shutter speed)
3) Deal with it later in post

Polarizers are a nightmare to use on drones (if you care about good, even footage anyway) because the level of polarization changes relative to your orientation to the sun. At 90 degrees the polarization is strongest and at 180 degrees there is no polarization. So, if you want even footage, you need to fly a carefully planned route with no deviation to your angle to the sun. That's often not practical and honestly just annoying. With a traditional camera you don't have this issue, because you can simply reach to the front of the camera and rotate the polarizer to adjust the polarization level. For still photos on a drone, polarizers are slightly less annoying, but you still need to set the orientation of the polarizer on the ground with prior knowledge of the direction you will be facing to take the picture once in the sky. After you take your photo(s) you need to land the drone and put a regular ND filter back on, again assuming you want nice even footage. One last complication is that polarizers on wide angle lenses are not uniform, so you will often times end up with parts of the sky that are darker than others.

Regarding ND filters, because the M3P has a fixed aperture of F1.7, which is quite fast (slightly more than 1 and 1/3 stop faster than F2.8), you need stronger ND filters than you do on most other drones all else equal. I would buy ND8 up to ND64 at least, probably also ND128 if you ever shoot above light colored sand or snow in sunlight. Compared to a Mini 2, for example, which has a fixed aperture of F2.8, you need a ND filter a full stop stronger to get a similar exposure, all else equal, so if you were using a ND8 on your Mini 2, you would need a ND16 on the M3P in the same conditions and exposure settings.

Polarizer is strongest at 90 degrees, not 180.

There are some variable ND filters that make it a bit more tolerable because you can look at your controller and turn the filter to be darker or lighter watching your histogram but overall, yea you need several and they are a pain.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Polarizer is strongest at 90 degrees, not 180.

There are some variable ND filters that make it a bit more tolerable because you can look at your controller and turn the filter to be darker or lighter watching your histogram but overall, yea you need several and they are a pain.

That's literally what I said: "At 90 degrees the polarization is strongest and at 180 degrees there is no polarization. " - not sure what you mean?

Variable ND's still require you to land the drone to change the strength, so all it does is prevent you from having to remove the filter to change the ND level, but variable ND's have other disadvantages so it depends what is more important to you - saving a few seconds or the highest quality footage.