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New York City May Allow Drones to Fly Within the City…

LoudThunder

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New York City May Allow Drones to Fly Within the City…

Below is an article from the New York Daily News, published today, 11 June 2023. It give some hope that some folks who jump through a lot (did I say, a Lot…) of hoops to fly drones within the City Limits…

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Proposal Would Allow Flights, But Strict Regulations Draw Criticism…

New York Daily News -- 11 Jun 2023 -- BY EMMA SEIWELL AND THOMAS TRACY

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The NYPD is test flying a permitting system that will allow drones to buzz about New York City — but commercial drone operators believe the strict rules will effectively put them in a no-fly zone.

After years of banning drones from flying in the five boroughs — except for five public parks in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island — the NYPD on June 2 proposed a new procedure where both hobbyists and commercial drone flyers could get a permit to fly drones and take aerial photos and video of the city.

But operators of the remote-controlled flyers will have to jump through hoops to get the $150 permits.

Applicants would have to request a permit a month prior to the flights, must be insured, and must already have a certificate of authorization from the Federal Aviation Administration.

In addition, drone operators will need to indicate in the application exactly what they hope to record, according to the new rules. They also must alert neighborhood community boards and City Council members where they plan to fly the drones and post public notices in the areas they intend to record.

The NYPD can deny any permit request it believes would “cause an unreasonable danger to the health or safety of the applicant, operator, or others, including members of the public.”

Drone operators may appeal permit denials — but the $150 application fee will be non-refundable, the Police Department said.

Those caught operating a drone without a permit would face fines ranging from $250 for a first offense to $1,000 for subsequent offenses, the department said.

Commercial drone companies are already balking at the strict rules — and how easily the NYPD can deny the permits.

“Clearly they don’t want drones in New York City,” said Edward Kostakis, co-founder of drone assisted aerial photography company Xizmo Media.

“What they’re trying to do is trying to make it difficult for everyone and anyone who’s going to try to apply for a permit to be able to fly. That way they dissuade them from wanting to do it at all.”

Kostakis said the upcoming hearing will be “quite an aggressive situation, because any commercial drone operator who knows what they’re doing is going to show up and tell them that this is absolutely unworkable.”

“This is not a solution. This is not even a first step,” Kostakis said of the NYPD proposal.

Drone operator Eddie Nunez also shot down the city’s plans, saying on Twitter that the permit system “only protect the large media companies, and limit individuals the right to document and create content.”

Police say the proposed permitting system accounts for “the important gains that may result from this new technology” as well as the city’s unusual airspace.

“New York City is a unique location that is serviced by three different airports, contains miles of towering skyscrapers, and hosts the densest population in the United States,” the NYPD said in a statement. “The city must balance the safety and privacy concerns of its citizens with the increased interest in the use of drones.”

When drones first flew onto the scene, the NYPD immediately banned them from the city, citing its dense population, skyscrapers and long list of potential terror targets.

Cops enforced the ban with a law placed into the city charter in the 1940s making it “unlawful for any person avigating an aircraft to take off or land, except in an emergency, at any place within the limits of the city other than places of landing designated by (the city.)”

“Avigating” is the word used in New York City law to describe navigating or flying an aircraft.

The 1940s law “was passed when military members were coming back after World War II,” Kostakis said. “(The veterans) would take off in their planes from Long Island or from New Jersey and they’d land in undeveloped parts of Queens and Brooklyn or Manhattan, go into a bar, go see their friends, then take off and go fly wherever they wanted to go.”

The only designated “places of landing” in the city today are, generally, heliports and airports. The law didn’t anticipate the development of small, unmanned, remote-control drones, Kostakis said.

“When you fast forward 80 years later, and you try to interpret that law to make drones fit into that law, there’s a problem,” Kostakis said.

None of the five city parks where drone flying is allowed are in Manhattan or remotely close to famous city sights. The parks include LaTourette Park Model Airfield in Staten Island, Calvert Vaux Park and Marine Park in Brooklyn, and Flushing Meadows Park and Corona Park in Queens,.

Even without New York City’s drone ban, it is tricky to legally launch drones in the five boroughs, thanks to LaGuardia and Kennedy airports.

Drone operators need air traffic control clearance within five miles of the airports, which means high-flying drones are effectively banned in a good chunk of northern Queens and Manhattan, as well as southern Queens and southern Brooklyn.

The NYPD and the FDNY can fly drones at major events and to conduct rescue operations. Drones were used to search for

survivors in the April 18 collapse of a lower Manhattan parking garage that killed one and injured five others.

Those caught flying — and sometimes crashing — drones in New York City have been found in violation of the city’s avigation law and are usually summonsed or charged with reckless endangerment.

fly drone.jpg

The NYPD’s new permit system came about because Xizmo Media took the city to court, challenging the constitutionality of the law. With the exception of New York City and Washington D.C., every other city in the nation allows commercial drone use for photography purposes, surveys, and property inspections, Kostakis said.

“There are plenty of other cities in the United States that are sensitive and have monuments, such as LA, Miami, Chicago, Boston. All these places allow for drones. Why is New York City so different?” Kostakis asked.

“This city has prevented businesses, people, schools, teachers, students, entrepreneurs from being able to engage in a business that by 2025 is supposed to be about a $65 billion industry. Up until now, New York City has taken absolutely zero part of that.”

Kostakis expects public pushback against the proposed permitting system — but he added that the new rules are “better than no proposal at all.”

“We are in the process of making a nice perfect tire and what we’ve got right now is a square made out of stone,” he said. “But at least we’ve gotten something.”

The hearing on the permit proposal will be at NYPD headquarters in lower Manhattan on July 7, officials said. The public can also review and comment on the proposal online.
 
Thanks for sharing
 
Correct me if I am wrong but does a city council have the authority to grant or refuse permission to fly within a city?
I thought they can, as land-owners, grant or refuse permission to take-off from, and land on, their property but doesn't the FAA and its rules govern airspace?
 
Correct me if I am wrong but does a city council have the authority to grant or refuse permission to fly within a city?
I thought they can, as land-owners, grant or refuse permission to take-off from, and land on, their property but doesn't the FAA and its rules govern airspace?
That is certainly the mantra often repeated, that no one but the FAA has any legal authority to regulate airspace. Yes, you are right that the city council is usually responsible for enacting local laws and the police only enforce the laws. It’s basic separation of powers. But apparently in New York City it’s the police who do both insofar as drones they just call it “permitting.”
 
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That is certainly the mantra often repeated, that no one but the FAA has any legal authority to regulate airspace. Yes, you are right that the city council is usually responsible for enacting local laws and the police only enforce the laws. It’s basic separation of powers. But apparently in New York City it’s the police who do both insofar as drones they just call it “permitting.”
But are the prosecutions for flying the drone over the city or for taking-off/landing from City owned property?
I think there is a distinct difference and if someone were to take off from and land on private property, with the property owner's permission, then, if the flight is flown with the correct FAA permissions and in accordance with FAA rules, how can the police, or any one, successfully prosecute......unless the City has the authority to impose a blanket ban on taking-off/landing from both public and private property.

I am not being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, it's just that as I understand US law a city can not prevent overflights that are in accordance with the FAA rules.

That said I think anyone that wants to fly in a city, over crowded streets, is 'barmy' lol, which emphasises the 'oddity'of my 'defending' any FAA given right to fly over such. I have absolutely no quibble if the FAA says "you can not fly over a city" but if the FAA says it is legal to fly over a city providing the flight is in accordance ....... blah blah blah
 
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But are the prosecutions for flying the drone over the city or for taking-off/landing from City owned property?
I think there is a distinct difference and if someone were to take off from and land on private property, with the property owner's permission, the,n if the flight is flown with the correct FAA permissions and in accordance with FAA rules, how can the police, or any one, successfully prosecute......unless the City has the authority to impose a blanket ban on taking-off/landing from both public and private property.

I am not being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, it's just that as I understand US law a city can not prevent overflights that are in accordance with the rules.

That said I think anyone that wants to fly in a city over crowded streets is 'barmy' lol, which emphasis the 'oddity'of my 'defending' any FAA given right to fly. I have absolutely no quibble if the FAA says "you can not fly over a city" but if the FAA says it is legal to fly over a city providing the flight is in accordance ....... blah blah blah
You are making excellent points. I do not get it either. I cannot see how the police could enact and enforce their own drone no fly ordinance or "rule" without violating the separation of powers doctrine.
 
The public can also review and comment on the proposal
The county where I live in Virginia prohibits flying drone from any county property without permission.

Here is a direct quote from their web site… They do not want you to do it and you have no recourse on how to apply…

york.jpg

I think New York City is doing several things, first and foremost, they are making a "Money Grab" If your application is disapproved, the application fee $150 is not refunded…

They are responding to being sued and the public outcry for prohibiting the flying of drones, but they have responded with requirements that is all but impossible to meet. BTW, New York has a lottery and your chances of winning the Lottery are probably better than getting a permit to fly your drone…

First and foremost, you need to be a Pat 107 Licensed Pilot…

Next, you need an FAA authorization to fly in the one of the airports Class B Airspaces, or one of the many city or river exclusion zones. And an exclusion zone waiver might take up to 90-days for approval…

You will need to provide proof of insurance…

Your application must state exactly what they hope to record, according to the rules and you have to submit it 30-days prior to your planned flight, so no afternoon outings…

You must alert neighborhood community boards and City Council members where you plan to fly the drone…

And then post public notices in the areas you intend to record.

The NYPD will probably then deny your permit request because they believe it would “cause an unreasonable danger to the health or safety of the applicant, operator, or others, including members of the public.”

Oh, you may appeal permit denials — but your initial $150 application fee is gone (non-refundable…).

Then you can re-submit your denied permit request with an additional $150 fee for the final Denial of your permit…

I hope we hear if anyone every gets a permit and the entire rigmarole they went through to get it…
 
Thanks for sharing!
 
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If you want to be on the other side of the street you have to be born there.

This all just sounds like a wet dream, for the anti drone mafia.
 
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From Manhattan here. According to b4ufly a big part of downtown is unrestricted. Does this mean there gonna restrict that too?
I have to ask you, do you fly in those areas?
 
Yes indeed.
That photo is so cool. Back in the late '80s, my wife and I were flying from my Air Force Assignment to our original home in the Albany area and it was late at night and we were taking a commuter flight from LaGuardia and the pilot received permission to fly the Hudson for some distance… The view was spectacular and I swear that the plane was not higher than some of the buildings…

I was really under the impression that drones were not allowed in any of the boroughs, I even thought that was what the article I posted implied…

I hope to see more of your spectacular photos of the city.
 
Thanks for sharing. Unfortuntely it is being touted as an opportunity to fly in NYC but it's a way to look like they are accommodating us while adding restrictions requirements and permit fees. 30 days written notice, posters and more while they can refuse the permit at the last minute and require you to re apply for another $150. Sad, and if NYC passes this others will follow.
 
Thanks for sharing. Unfortuntely it is being touted as an opportunity to fly in NYC but it's a way to look like they are accommodating us while adding restrictions requirements and permit fees. 30 days written notice, posters and more while they can refuse the permit at the last minute and require you to re apply for another $150. Sad, and if NYC passes this others will follow.
It's bad enough 90 days waiting for a FAA waiver.

But isn't there something in the Constitution about making laws that are just absolutely tenacious?
 
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