Newbie Question On VLOS (UK)

[as400]

Hi all Newbie here from UK.

I am reading you must never loose sight of your drone when flying which sounds fair enough.

My eyesight isn't brilliant with my advancing age, I can see a drome maybe up to 100 ft away, but I am seeing drones being advertised with a 3KM range!...how on earth do you see it when its that far away?

With ones mobile phone would you be seeing what the drone sees sort of thing?...are they in contact?...not sure how it works TBH!

Thanks!

 

[AeroJ]

how on earth do you see it when its that far away?

You don't, and can't, even with 20-20 vision ! The 3km possible range should be a big comfort to you in that it is a huge safety margin in terms of signal loss, but in this country at least (UK), and most others, you can't legally use anything like that range, not even with a spotter, who also can't see much meaningfully beyond what you can, standing near to you as the law states they must be.

It's worse than that in that not only do we have to be able to see it, but also judge its orientation, which is orders of magnitude harder if you don't have nav lights or are operating a smaller drone that may or may not have them, or have them on whilst recording ! Also remember that often the landscape, or obstacles in it will usually dictate much smaller limits, and that is usually not much further than you could see anyway. There's no faster way to lose signal completely in one surprising hit than by dropping down behind a tree bank, and that can happen as close as 50 ft to you !

With a Mini 4 Pro, I have repeatedly established that I can tell both position and orientation up to 400 ft (my eyes are also failing with age, but close up rather than far away), which I find to be practically just about enough for most video missions I am undertaking. With my older, bigger Typhoon H it was more like double that. 100 ft wouldn't be enough though, so that may be an issue for you. In that case I would try and extend that range as much as possible by attaching some brightly coloured reflective tape. I've done that with mine, and it does a help a bit, especially beneath 'sky-background' level where the drone is against greenery and foliage. If you use multi colored tape on different sides you can help tell orientation further out too.

Most of the time you will not have a problem flying beyond that if you can see the screen and locate the craft that way (either via the map, the camera view or the radar screen), but I am afraid to say you can't do it legally. But it's also something that is not likely to be called out legally unless you crash and authorities get involved with your flight logs. Even then they are not likely to be as concerned by someone flying 400 ft out than they would be if they are 2km away, and clearly out of ANYONES sight.

So ultimately, your practical maximums involve some level of discretion, and depend on what you are comfortable with in any particular situation.

In the same way that it is widely acknowledged (but rarely emphasised or admitted to) that we all look down at our controllers, and for safety reasons OBVIOUSLY SHOULD DO SO quite a lot of the time, if we were strictly adhering to the VLOS rules, one interpretation of that is that we can't ever take our eyes off the craft, which is clearly madness, from which we could deduce that the rule isn't fit for purpose, and should treated with some degree of leeway (note I didn't say contempt !) for that reason, if not for discretionary ones like the difference between your safe view of the craft and a reasonable persons' and people flying recklessly way out of VLOS range.

 

[MA2 317]

Hello from the Crossroads of America as400.

Much like an automobile that is capable of exceeding the posted speed limits, it's up to the individual to obey the regulations.

I rarely fly BVLOS, but it's nice to know that I still have the extra transmission power and control of the aircraft to bring it back in range of VLOS.

A Visual Observer will help in noting the aircraft location when flying to assist the PIC during a flight.

I use strobe lights day or night and they help with me or my VO to locate the aircraft quickly when flying.

Welcome to the Forum.

.

 

[mavic3usa]

With ones mobile phone would you be seeing what the drone sees sort of thing?...are they in contact?...not sure how it works TBH!

Unfortunately you can only see what's out front of your drone with the mobile phone. If you cannot see on the side and out the back of your drone, you cannot see enough around you in order to operate the drone safely. At least, that's the thinking. Just wait a few more years, that will change.

 

[AeroJ]

Unfortunately you can only see what's out front of your drone with the mobile phone. If you cannot see on the side and out the back of your drone, you cannot see enough around you in order to operate the drone safely. At least, that's the thinking. Just wait a few more years, that will change.

Well on things like the M4P it has already changed, and we can switch to OBS AVOID cams to see exactly that at any time (we have video signal). How many times people practically do that, beyond establishing that it works once is another matter entirely, as is whether doing that would be the slightest bit of help in avoiding fast moving aircraft, which will invariably be a greyscale dot on the horizon, barely distinguishable from noise in those views, until it is waaay too late to do anything about ! So perhaps we shouldn't petition for the revision of that law just yet, at least on those grounds...

I would be happy with it if it acknowledged and clarified that the rule doesn't preclude looking down at the controller for extended periods of time. We should look up at the craft often, but not be required to keep our eyes glued to it and it should not be possible to interpret it as such.

 

[as400]

Thank you all for your replies, I'm a bit more clear now though doubtless need to investigate this all much more.

Great website!

 

[LoudThunder]

My eyesight isn't brilliant with my advancing age, I can see a drome maybe up to 100 ft away

Welcome from the Hampton Roads area of Virginia, USA. We have a Member's Map in the Upper Right of the Title Bar. Click on "Members" and then Click on "Member's Map…" Check it out and you might find some new flying friends.

Member Map

mavicpilots.com

Since you live in the UK, there are specific laws and rules for you to follow, please check to ensure these are current.

Overview : Flying drones and model aircraft | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out what you need to know and do when you fly drones or model aircraft in the UK

register-drones.caa.co.uk

First off, you cannot legally fly your drone beyond your visual line of sight and that "Line of Sight" is pilot dependent, and it must be done with the unaided eye, you can wear your prescription glasses, but that precluded using binoculars, or other methods to enhance your vision.

If your eyesight was 20/20, you could fly your drone much further out, but as you say, your eyesight isn't brilliant with your advancing age. If you can only see your drone out to 100-feet, then that is the limit of your legal flights (PERIOD).

Think about the transmission/control range on your drone like the speed capability of your vehicle. The top legal speed limit in the UK is what, 110 KPH, but I bet your vehicle can go much faster. You can drive faster, but it is not legal, Right?

If you have a high-end stereo, I bet you can turn up the volume so loud that you are violating the local ordinances in your neighborhood, so you can listen to it so loud that it would cause permanent hearing damage, but it is not legal, Right?

So, just because you can use the video feed from your drone to fly your drone out further than you can see it, do not do it… as has been started over and over again, you cannot see what else is around you and the video feed on your phone is not good enough to see wires, low flying aircraft, etc…

Here is a couple of suggestions to help you, install some navigations lights on your drone.

Amazon.com

Maybe install some reflective tape of a bright color "skin"

Amazon.com

With all that being said, here is some Good Old Fashion Advice…

You paid a lot of money for that Drone, put your phone number on it. If your drone gets lost or stuck in a tree and it finally comes down when you are not around, give the finders an opportunity to contact you so it can be returned.

Now, for the Fun Part, But do not let the excitement of the moment get the best of you. When you are going out to fly, do it slowly and deliberately. Get used to a set procedure and even practice it.

There are so many things I could write but these are the highlights that I feel need mentioning.

Plug in your phone/tablet into your controller; turn on the Controller and DJI Fly App (if it does not start on its own…). On the Drone, open the front legs, then open the back legs, and then remove the Gimbal Cover.

The Gimbal is the most delicate item on the Drone and banging or bumping can damage it. I also fastened a short "Remove Before Flight" ribbon to the cover so it's more noticeable and I do not forget to remove it…

Turn on the drone and watch it come to "life." Watching the Gimbal go through its self-check is almost like watching a puppy or kitten opening its eyes for the first time…

Place the drone down (preferably on a Landing Pad) while it finishes its self-test (collecting satellites, etc…).

Check your battery status (Phone, Drone, and Controller), check the Signal Strength, by now the Controller should have reported it updated the Home Point.

Lift off, 6 feet (2-meters) or so, hover a bit, check the controls (move the drone a bit forward, back, left, right, yaw left and right). By now, your Controller will probably report again, "Home point Updated."

If you go out in a rush and race thru your start up and take off before the drone has finished it prep, it may update its Home Point over that pond or that old tree you are flying over and in your excitement, you'll fly the drone long past it Low Battery point and when it engages Return to Home and lands in the pond or in a tree; it will be all on you…

Now go have fun, learn to fly the drone by sight before you try to fly it out a distance depending on the video feed, FPV.

I would also advise you to use YouTube and watch a lot of the Videos on flying and setting up the Drone. When it is too dark, too cold, or too wet, you can "fly it vicariously" through YouTube. Also watch some of the Blooper Drone Videos and learn how not to fly your "New Baby."

Fly On and Fly Safe…

 

[mavic3usa]

Well on things like the M4P it has already changed, and we can switch to OBS AVOID cams to see exactly that at any time (we have video signal). How many times people practically do that, beyond establishing that it works once is another matter entirely, as is whether doing that would be the slightest bit of help in avoiding fast moving aircraft, which will invariably be a greyscale dot on the horizon, barely distinguishable from noise in those views, until it is waaay too late to do anything about ! So perhaps we shouldn't petition for the revision of that law just yet, at least on those grounds...

I would be happy with it if it acknowledged and clarified that the rule doesn't preclude looking down at the controller for extended periods of time. We should look up at the craft often, but not be required to keep our eyes glued to it and it should not be possible to interpret it as such.

True, if the rule was based on actually being able to see and avoid other nearby aircraft. But since the rule is largely based on making sure to keep control over how far away drones can be flown and nobody wants a drone to be somewhere and the operator is nowhere to be seen...."let's come up with a rule and maybe use the same rule from rc aircrafts where it made sense and call it about safety that loosely claims you need to be able to see approaching aircraft in the distance" as if that has ever happened.

You can have all the sensitive 360 degree special obstacle avoidance cameras all you want, the only way to change the rule is to overcome the "stealth drone" mentality. Or, we can wait for Amazon, UPS, and Google to defacto do it for us. Either way it doesn't matter, most recreational drones flyer don't obey it because it's not practical, it isn't enforced, and as you said, it makes no sense when you need to look elsewhere (your controller) from time to time.

 

[msinger]

Welcome to the forum @as400!

 

[Felix le Chat]

Hi all Newbie here from UK.

I am reading you must never loose sight of your drone when flying which sounds fair enough.

My eyesight isn't brilliant with my advancing age, I can see a drome maybe up to 100 ft away, but I am seeing drones being advertised with a 3KM range!...how on earth do you see it when its that far away?

With ones mobile phone would you be seeing what the drone sees sort of thing?...are they in contact?...not sure how it works TBH!

Thanks!

The best way to look at the "3km range" advertised by DJI is to see it as a measure of transmitter signal strength, not possible flight distance.

If a signal can be strong enough to establish a radio control connection at that distance: it should be overpoweringly strong up to 400 feet away... which is a really good thing because that's precisely what you want - a strong, reliable control connection between the drone and the transmitter.

As AeroJ mentions, this won't help if there's a whopping great obstacle blocking line of sight between the drone and the transmitter, so you'll learn to avoid doing this more than once pretty quickly.

When this does happen... and it will (all of us will bear witness to this) the trick is 'corporal Jones'... DONT PANIC! Just take your thumbs off the sticks. Three seconds after the drone loses contact: RTH (Return To Home) automatically kicks in and your pride & joy flies straight back to you on autopilot.

 

[Talldiver]

Welcome to the forum from Northwest New Jersey.

 

[Kendallfordguy]

Welcome from Wisconsin!

 

[PakNheat380]

Welcome to the forum from NW Montana

 

[Fizzbang]

If you cannot see the drone, then you might not see what you are about to fly into or what is about to fly into your drone. This is somthing I have now suffered from which I can only put down to a bird strike.

Thirty metres up over open fields near a river and suddenly the flight goes crazy and I try to avoid the river but the drone lands in flood water. The drone is a gonner.

It appears that the front blade cut through the LED and Aerial leg with catastrophic effect. How did that happen?
Its still a mistery never to be solved.

If you fly BVLOS you have to accept the consequences of your actions including any damage to inocent parties.

 

[GFields]

Greetings from Birmingham Alabama USA, welcome to the forum! We look forward to hearing from you!

 

[Prop Wash]

From California, US - @as400 - Thanks for joining us @ MP!
LOTS if good info above - the strobe attached it probably the best to maintain VLOS, you can also try colored tape on the arms and/or body to make it more visible. Some have said using that iridescent tape is good too since it reflects light back.

 

[sarahb]

Welcome!

 

[wjkrysak]

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to your participation and your view of the world.

 

[SpitFire]

Greetings from Chicago the Windy City, welcome to the forum.
FLY SAFE & FLY SMART

 

[SparePartz]

Welcome from H town Texas