Night Flying

[paulatkin73]

And this would be a correct opinion.

This is the document that comes up after a search for recreational flying laws. i do not understand where you people get your assumptions from.
It says - ADHERE to ALL under the 'Exception', then under the 14 CFR part 107. 107 supersedes the Exception. what is not clear there? recreational exception has its limits, what is not covered in there is taken from the 14 CFR p.107.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-10169.pdf

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Federal Aviation Administration [Docket No. FAA-2019-0364] Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft

...

Operators of small unmanned aircraft (also referred to as drones) for recreational purposes must follow the rules in 14 CFR part 107 for FAA certification and operating authority unless they follow the conditions of the Exception for Limited Recreational This document is scheduled to be published in the Federal Register on 05/17/2019 and available online at Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft, and on govinfo.gov 2 Operations of Unmanned Aircraft, discussed in this notice. The FAA refers to individuals operating under that statutory exception as “recreational flyers.”

...

Recreational flyers must adhere to all of the statutory conditions to operate under the Exception for Limited Recreational Operation of Unmanned Aircraft. Otherwise, the recreational operations must be conducted under 14 CFR part 107.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Ahh, I see your confusion:

Operators of small unmanned aircraft (also referred to as drones) for recreational purposes must follow the rules in 14 CFR part 107 for FAA certification and operating authority unless they follow the conditions of the Exception for Limited Recreational

You're missing the important word "Unless"....this means that you have to follow the 107 ruleset, UNLESS you are flying under the recreational exception set (349).....That's what the Recreational operators are doing....flying under the 349 ruleset and is what I referenced in my post #51. If you don't want to follow this ruleset, then you operate under Part 107. As a Recreational operator, it's your choice: Operate under 107 or 349. Most choose 349 because it's far less restrictive. Those of us who fly for compensation do not have this choice, we have to fly under 107. (Unless flying for fun)

You stated:

"It says - ADHERE to ALL under the 'Exception', then under the 14 CFR part 107. 107 supersedes the Exception."

Where does it say this? That you have to adhere to 349, then 107, and that 107 supersedes 349? Why even have 349 then?

 

[B52-D]

Anyone here like to fly at night? Thought about giving it a try.

Have to apply for wavier, I’ll stay with daytime.

 

[Bigbird48]

who says you need a wavier ? I fly at night quite often hobbyist no wavier needed d

 

[B52-D]

who says you need a wavier ? I fly at night quite often hobbyist no wavier needed d

An enormous amount of confusion on this subject. Currently hobbyist can fly at night, while operating in accordance with their cbo/ama etc. Part 107 operators need a waiver.

 

[Bigbird48]

There shouldn't be any confusion Hobbyist can fly at night with out a waiver, Pt 107 can fly at night under pt 107 with a wavier or they can fly recreational y with out a wavier . theres no confusion

 

[Shivers]

LOL...listen, this still goes on and on.. it’s a good topic with many confused! Airmaps state no flying at night for rec. in the rules it states this. Online has many yes and no... This forum is suppose to help folks, not respond like your the FAA gold star winner for know it all.

Listen, not everyone will be right... or wrong. Kindness goes a long way. And assuming anything is bad man! This is why I ask, and don’t assume. still, with AirMap... look below.. No rec flying at night. Not assuming... I’m reading. Yup, not the FAA, but still ties into, so I thought. Thus doing LAANC you would almost assume, but this is WHY I ask. Again, a question should be met with a kind answer

Seems some are confused... and heck... while we have this forum just for that, I figured I would ask. With all the misinformation, it’s better to ask! Analogies with cars and red lights don’t really apply... And if you want them to..we can struggle to make it compare. the police can run red lights, they have a pass... so do others.they had to take a course to get it. And that legality is still questioned. (No I’m not questioning it, I’m just saying use drone examples, an not compare a dump truck to a pickup truck, so to speak) unless you work directly for the FAA, try to act accordingly.

Folks, it’s about kindness, and being considerate. Just remember that not every is as awesome as you, or knows as much as you do.
So, be helpful... Not a donkey.

Thanks...

 

[dtp]

Not had many opportunities recently however managed on Saturday evening to get an hour or so in.

 

[Fred Garvin]

@Shivers if you consider AirMap to be the authority, then by all means follow their directions.

Most of us consider the FAA to be the authority over the airspace in the US. The FAA is very clear on the subject of flying at night where professional compensation is involved....and that is you need a Daylight Wavier 107.29 to do it.

The FAA is somewhat nebulous where it comes to Recreational Night Flight. There is nothing that specifically prohibits the activity, and they put it off to the rather vague “Follow the rules of a Community Based Organization”. They then go on to specify some qualifications as to what a CBO is, and that really, only the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) is the only one recognized at this time.....so, we have to go there. According to the AMA’s current guidelines, there is no prohibition for flying at night. This, however could change at any time, without any notice, and on a whim of the AMA and a simple update to the guidelines.

AMA Safety Code as of 01-2018

I have no idea why, or where, AirMap gets its source for the night flight statement. Maybe someone could ask them? Barring AirMap being able to cite an authoritative source for this, I will say that they are misinformed. But it doesn’t really matter as I don’t consider AirMap to be the definitive authority for use of the NAS, only the FAA and those they designate or refer you to, like the AMA.

 

[Bigbird48]

yea hey if you think that airmap is the boss then hey do what hey say, me I'm flying at night as long *** the FAA doesn't say I can't

 

[Shivers]

Listen, I’m not saying you can’t. I want to! I just want to make sure I’m doing it legal. I look to this forum for accurate advise, given kindly. If I miss understood... I also look to this forum to guidance. And yes, I figured seeing they do LAANC they would be accurate. My apologies.

 

[Fred Garvin]

No need to apologize.....it’s more important to understand. This should not be a confusing issue....but thanks to AirMap and other dubious sources.....mis-interpretation of the rules and embellishing things that aren’t there....it is confusing.

 

[DanMan32]

I suspect FAA doesn't want you to fly at night, that's why even the guidelines shown when you register say not to.
But there's a loophole about it so FAA can't officially say no. It's much like before the big changes when airports couldn't give you permission or prohibit you from flying, only advise you when it was a bad idea.

So FAA is saying it's a bad idea but can't really stop you, and Airmap follows suit.

 

[Fred Garvin]

I suspect FAA doesn't want you to fly at night, that's why even the guidelines shown when you register say not to.

Can you provide a link to this source?

I‘m not seeing any mention of night flight at:

FAA Drone Zone Recreational Flyers

or

FAA Drone Zone Registration

 

[Shivers]

Can you provide a link to this source?

I‘m not seeing any mention of night flight at:

FAA Drone Zone Recreational Flyers

or

FAA Drone Zone Registration

I personally don’t know about drone zone. Was trying to figure the name to test it out.
As mentioned, air maps (tho again, may work with FAA but might be inaccurate or suggesting no fly at night) right in the rec section it states this.
Now that we seem to be on a better note with this, and we all see the possible confusion, getting into this a bit more would be nice.

has anyone tried to reach out directly to FAA about this!? Would anyone be willing to try?
Thanks! I think we all see following the rules is important, and with confusion can be annoying. I thank you all!

again, I want to fly at night...

 

[DanMan32]

This thread has gotten up to 75 posts so I am not going to scan through them, but I think someone posted in this topic that they did contact FAA and they confirmed it isn't flat out illegal for hobbyists. If not this topic, then elsewhere.

It looks like FAA may have removed the language about flying at night from their basic guidelines on their site, relying on the CBO guidelines to address it instead.
They even made it clearer about registering as hobbyist vs 107. It used to be harder to navigate their site and not end up in 107 territory for registration when you intended to register as a hobbyist.

I even looked at my printed registration certificate from 2016, nothing about night flying there either.

Still, I suspect FAA would rather we not fly at night, they just can't flat out and say it, much like ATCs couldn't flat out prohibit flights back when we were only to notify about our flights, they could only advise.

 

[DanMan32]

I need to reprint my certificate. It says it expired 1/12/2019, but web says 12/12/2020. I think the extension has to do with the registration requirement being suspended for a while due to a lawsuit.

 

[cavenger]

And THIS is the kind of thing that leaves people confused...

 

[Fred Garvin]

Excellent......we now have 2 sources of this......Airmap’s and the silly “Buzzy” from the FAA......

AirMap probably sources their recommendation from the FAA source.....and this FAA source could very well be the genesis of the confusion. There’s no “official” prohibition in any of the FAA’s drone regulations (for recreational flyers) or in the AMA Safety Codes (FAA’s referenced CBO)......yet “Buzzy” tells us not to.....trouble Is, “Buzzy” is not supported by any regulations......

 

[DanMan32]

As I said before, FAA doesn't want us to fly at night, but can't prohibit us from doing so, much like before the new rules, airports couldn't prohibit us from flying in certain areas, but only advise us not to.