No Courtesy or Respect

[Bigbird48]

The thing that sticks out for me is the OP rented the place with dock rights included. The guy flying the drone was trespassing and had no right to be there. Maybe the OP should have just asked the guy to leave the doc as he had no right to be there and all the other stuff would not need bringing up.

 

[DroningOn]

The thing that sticks out for me is the OP rented the place with dock rights included. The guy flying the drone was trespassing and had no right to be there. Maybe the OP should have just asked the guy to leave the doc as he had no right to be there and all the other stuff would not need bringing up.

Here here...
If someone was on my property and refused to leave... what’s that called?? Oh yeah, it’s called trespassing. Wish there was something I could do about that.
What’s that? Call the police? Why didn’t I think of that!

 

[brett8883]

The thing that sticks out for me is the OP rented the place with dock rights included. The guy flying the drone was trespassing and had no right to be there. Maybe the OP should have just asked the guy to leave the doc as he had no right to be there and all the other stuff would not need bringing up.

Yea I think I missed that the first time reading it. That’s does make a huge difference and is kinda a different issue too. I would have told then not to be there when I got back.

Good call that does change the whole scope of it.

 

[2nckayakers]

I guess I wouldn’t be too talkative if a stranger came up and asked me what I was doing and if I had a waiver. Remember your waiver doesn’t mean you are the only one allowed to fly there.

As far as needing a waiver you are correct that what he said the operation is for would require a 107 license but that’s not clear to most people even people that understand the rules. Frankly I’m not sure the FAA is even all that clear on it. According to the FAAs user identification tool User Identification Tool a reasonable person could come to the conclusion you wouldn’t need a 107 license for that operation as long as you answer yes to “are you flying for fun?” According to the FAAs own tool.

I know the FAA has said otherwise but it really is a bit of a grey area as far as the material they have available. (Note: I’m not saying he wouldn’t need a 107. I think he does. What I am saying is it easy to see why people are confused about it. )
I think it’s just about educating people and asking nicely. You might be frustrated after following all the rules but if you take that frustration out on people who don’t understand where you are coming from then you just seem like a donkey to them and of course you aren’t gonna get cooperation.

So first of all, I was very polite to this guy when I first approached him. it was more of a "hey, how are you guys doing this afternoon? Great day for sailing and flying. I'm out here to fly too, doing some BRoll for my team. What are you guys doing?" So maybe I should have started my story off with all that too. Look I am the most polite person you will ever encounter. I deal with the public, vendors and government every single day in my work and have been in customer service for 35 years so I know how to approach and deal with people. This guy just didn't care if he was not following rules, thought that because he lived there that he was exempt from anything. I have seen his same attitude before in other people outside of drone related things, and I have seen the same attitude from people in this forum. He thought the rules don't apply to him. He clearly knew he was in a restricted airspace, try to say he had talked to someone about it, when I told him the person he talked to is not the person that can give him authority, then he changed is defense and said that he didn't have or need a commercial license and was just flying for fun and it didn't apply to him. BUT, if that is what he thought to begin with, then why would he have even said he talked with someone at the Air Station and had permission. He knew the rules, just thought he could do what he wanted and it didn't apply to him.

So in response to the waiver, you are correct that multiple people can have a waiver from the FAA to fly in specific areas. However, the Restricted Special Use Area where I had the waiver, I was the only one with authorization and permission to fly at that specific time and location. This is a military restricted use area that is under the control of the MC Air Station ATC. They only allow 1 bird to fly at a time in that restricted space in a specific zone. So for instance if I tell them exactly where I am going to fly, and give them a time for the flights, they give me clearance and authorization to solely fly within a 2 mile radius of that location. No one else is allowed to fly whether for fun or commercially during that same time. Because remember, doesn't matter if it is commercial or for fun, you must have approval and authorization to fly in a special use restricted airspace that is under military control. You can't just call them up and say "hey, I am flying for fun, just wanted to let you know" and then off into the wild blue yonder you go. I flew this same location for two prior years and both were "for fun" and I still had to go through the same hoops to fly in that restricted airspace.

 

[2nckayakers]

Here here...
If someone was on my property and refused to leave... what’s that called?? Oh yeah, it’s called trespassing. Wish there was something I could do about that.
What’s that? Call the police? Why didn’t I think of that!

But see the thing is, I didn't mind the guy flying. I would have been happy to share the space with him had he not been a **** about it or gone into the whole I live here and the rules don't apply to me and I know the property owner crap. If he had just been courteous and respectful back to me I would have just told him I need the airspace for about 30 minutes to get some footage of my team here and some establishing shots and you can go right back to having all the illegal fun you want.

The whole point of this entire thread was being courteous and respectful. I wasn't trying to get this guy in trouble, if I was, all I needed to do was call back to ATC and tell them he was flying here and I can guarantee you within a few minutes guys in camo and guns would have descended on the area. They take flying in this space very seriously. But unless someone is extremely careless I wouldn't do that, even though this guy was pretty reckless in my opinion by flying over people and letting a stranger do the same with his bird. For the most part I live and let live. I just needed the space and he was of the mind set that I was here first, I don't want to share, and I live here (in town) who are you to tell me what I can and can't do.

However, as I said before and have many times in other posts, it is our responsibility as a community to police ourselves. If you don't, someone else will step in (more than they already are) and do it for us, and I really don't think we want that. I try to educate people when I can, and be courteous and respectful about it. We all were new at some point in time, we didn't always know the rules. Heck looking back there were times when I was reckless and didn't really see it at the time. BUT, through experience and education we learn. Anyone that doesn't agree with this or the position has the opinion that Macoman pointed out previous "I am just playing with my toy". When those people come to grips with the fact that it isn't a toy, then maybe things will change.

 

[Pontoon-pilot]

It seems like the OP had all the boxes checked from the legal point of view, and then you throw in the situational + human element.
maybe the "Local guy vs someone passing by".
The local guy likely did not know you were renting the house, nor did he know that you went through all the trouble did all the hard work to set it up so you can fly legally.
It just seems the situation was done in a confrontational matter.
Asking him "what are you going to to do with the video?" likely offended him and set the mood.

 

[Texbow]

Sounds like you are/where 100% correct regarding the law. I take a different view of these situations. If I was to feel as strongly as you (justifiably so) I would have not said a word to him and just reported the issue. I see laws being broken (minor) but only in case of risk of life do I have legal authority to approach and intervene. Not to sound like a jerk but basically your not minding your own business. Being right/legal does not give you authority. I get your frustration but I just don't think your going to have any positive affect on the situation by trying to correct him without authority to do so. I guess in a rare case a person might just not have a clue but way too much info out here for them to play dumb these days. My guess is that the laws are going to change soon making this much less likely to happen in the future.

 

[Bigbird48]

Sounds like you are/where 100% correct regarding the law. I take a different view of these situations. If I was to feel as strongly as you (justifiably so) I would have not said a word to him and just reported the issue. I see laws being broken (minor) but only in case of risk of life do I have legal authority to approach and intervene. Not to sound like a jerk but basically your not minding your own business. Being right/legal does not give you authority. I get your frustration but I just don't think your going to have any positive affect on the situation by trying to correct him without authority to do so. I guess in a rare case a person might just not have a clue but way too much info out here for them to play dumb these days. My guess is that the laws are going to change soon making this much less likely to happen in the future.

Have you read the thread or just the OP first statement try reading the whole thread then see if you feel the same way

 

[Thomas B]

Sounds like you are/where 100% correct regarding the law. I take a different view of these situations. If I was to feel as strongly as you (justifiably so) I would have not said a word to him and just reported the issue. I see laws being broken (minor) but only in case of risk of life do I have legal authority to approach and intervene. Not to sound like a jerk but basically your not minding your own business. Being right/legal does not give you authority. I get your frustration but I just don't think your going to have any positive affect on the situation by trying to correct him without authority to do so. I guess in a rare case a person might just not have a clue but way too much info out here for them to play dumb these days. My guess is that the laws are going to change soon making this much less likely to happen in the future.

Agree with @Bigbird48. OP handled the situation well. All fault to the trespasser.

 

[Luke147]

Seems to me that if you waited on hour until all of his batteries were dead he would have had to.leave and you still would have had the place to yourself. Maybe some patience on your part would have saved you a lot of unneeded heartburn.

 

[Thomas B]

Seems to me that if you waited on hour until all of his batteries were dead he would have had to.leave and you still would have had the place to yourself. Maybe some patience on your part would have saved you a lot of unneeded heartburn.

So if someone is flying from your back yard will you wait until they are done to use it?

 

[DeeRose]

It seems like the OP had all the boxes checked from the legal point of view, and then you throw in the situational + human element.
maybe the "Local guy vs someone passing by".
The local guy likely did not know you were renting the house, nor did he know that you went through all the trouble did all the hard work to set it up so you can fly legally.
It just seems the situation was done in a confrontational matter.
Asking him "what are you going to to do with the video?" likely offended him and set the mood.

Totally agree. There's a right way and a wrong way to handle issues with people. I think this one was a bit confrontational as well. The guy doesn't owe anyone but leo or property owner an explanation of what he's doing with the video. In this day and age, kind of surprised this didn't end with someone getting hurt.

 

[Thomas B]

Totally agree. There's a right way and a wrong way to handle issues with people. I think this one was a bit confrontational as well. The guy doesn't owe anyone but leo or property owner an explanation of what he's doing with the video. In this day and age, kind of surprised this didn't end with someone getting hurt.

So trespassing is to be condoned?

 

[DroningOn]

So trespassing is to be condoned?

The op already said he didn’t care if the guy was on his deck

 

[madkaw]

So trespassing is to be condoned?

What, the point is...you don’t take the law in your owns hands; you call the authorities; It’s that simple!

 

[Thomas B]

What, the point is...you don’t take the law in your owns hands; you call the authorities; It’s that simple!

Of course... but the Op was trying to be cordial to the trespasser. Read the entire thread, Op had constraints, special needs and expenses.

 

[Texbow]

Have you read the thread or just the OP first statement try reading the whole thread then see if you feel the same way
View attachment 71187

Yes I read the entire thread. The OP's short story was not an issue with someone being on the rental property. The OP is ticked because he followed the rules and the other guy didn't. ***** and raise hell all you want with someone like that but you don't have the authority to do anything about it. Want results? Report it.

 

[deleted member 877]

@2nckayakers asked a pertinent question, "If we don't police ourselves then who will?" That question would be easier to answer if we had our own organisation (like the AMA) with membership compulsory for all drone operators. I understand that drone pilots can join the AMA but that not much has been done in regards to setting up a comprehensive drone-specific Regulation framework - not at all sure about this and don't want to veer off into a discussion about the AMA.

It could be like how the HGFA (Hang Gliding Federation of Australia) operates where most of the Advanced level and highly experienced pilots are also designated Safety officers. These guys are legally entitled to ask to see any hang glider pilot's License and/or Rating documentation before allowing that pilot to fly. They are fully backed by the law and can, in extreme cases, involve the police if need be.

 

[JanB]

I think this again is a funny discussion. We heard/read one side with severe accusations. But I am missing the other side.
My experience showed me that someone who is telling a short story as long as to publish it in a small booklet is telling too much. He is trying to convince by the mass of words not by the content. Shorter is better.
When telling something it is normal to place yourself as the good guy. I doubt a little bit the IMO embellished story as it was told and I think we all should behave as adults: You have to listen to both sides otherwise there is no basis for a legal system. But here in the forum most rely on the encounters of only one person.

 

[JSKCKNIT]

There's too much craziness in the world. I agree we must police ourselves, but there are some people out there who have no problems ending your life over an argument. Not worth it. Let LE handle it. There was a story about a year or so ago about a man getting shot over a drone confrontation.