No FAA waiver but a demanding client

[dazapper]

People who work in government have no idea of how the real world works. Business moves fast, and a 90 day wait for a 107 waiver is just not acceptable.

A client brought up the idea of a night flight two weeks ago. This is a long-time client who has brought much work to me, and who is also demanding. It was because of his insistence that I got a drone, then learned that to use the drone for paying clients, a license is needed. I took a course, took the test, and got the license. Now that I have it, many clients don't understand the restrictions I am now obligated to fly with, and subsequently am losing jobs because others who have drones--but no license--are willing to fly anyway. This is quite the dilemma.

I applied for the 107 waiver 14 days ago and read that there have been instances where it has been approved in 10 days. I leave for the shoot in an hour, I've still got no waiver, yet have a client that will demand I fly in the dark. If I don't, he'll get the competitor to do it, someone who will do it illegally. If I fly, it will also be illegal. We discussed a similar case in the drone class, but here I am in the situation in real life.

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[BigAl07]

It's part of doing business my friend. Planning ahead and getting your waivers in line long before you need them is part of the game we have to play.

For the record, some waivers are being approved in just a few weeks it just depends on the current log jam in the office.

How long have you had your Part 107?

 

[Kilrah]

Planning ahead and getting your waivers in line long before you need them is part of the game we have to play.

Except that's not how it works, you can only start planning when the client requests a job, and no client comes to you far enough ahead to be compatible with the procedures you have to go through.
Most clients want something "in 3 days", if you're very lucky you have 2 weeks notice before an event, if it takes 6 weeks to get permissions it can't work.

 

[BigAl07]

Except that's not how it works, you can only start planning when the client requests a job, and no client comes to you far enough ahead to be compatible with the procedures you have to go through.
Most clients come to you between 1 day and if you're very lucky 2 weeks before an event.....

I'm calling BS! Do you know how many professional sUAS operators have every single waiver for the airspace around them for over 100 miles? Some even have 75% of the US in their folders. You could have your Daylight Waiver request written before you even go take the P107 test and submit it as soon as you have your passing test and FAA credentials. Waiting until you NEED these things is a recipe for disaster and giving your competition a leg up on you.

I had to wait 200 days for my section 333 to get approved in order to be able to do this legally. During that time I learned my business, worked on my networking and tweaked my processes so that when I could GO LEGAL I was ready.

Yes that is how it works when you're a professional and you're planning ahead. I'm not just speaking hypothetically I'm speaking from experience.

Sitting around claiming it's not fair is only stealing time and resources from your company when you could be doing something positive.

And for the record, the vast majority of my clients come to me weeks in advance of their need for work because they've learned how I do business and know that to get the best you have to plan ahead and get on the schedule. I'm building jobs right now in late May & June. YMMV

if it takes 6 weeks to get permission it can't work.

The problem the OP is talking about is his permission to fly at night (Daylight Waiver). Once you get it you have it approved for a couple (or three) years so it's a ONE and DONE for a good while and not needed to get for each "event".

 

[Kneebeard]

How to Fly Your Drone at Night-(Part 107 Night Waiver) -

This link won't help you in today's problem but getting a night waiver is good for 4 years which will help next time. Here's an excerpt from his article this afternoon:

"...non-recreational operators flying under Part 107 need night waivers.

How long does a night waiver last?
4 years.

What airspace can I fly in under a night waiver?
The waiver is good for all of Class G airspace. You can obtain authorizations to operate at night in Class B, C, D, or E @ the surface.
The night waivers say, “Operations under this Waiver are to be conducted in Class G airspace only unless specific airspace authorization or Waiver is received from the FAA in accordance with § 107.41[.]”
You can apply for the night waiver and an airspace authorization at the same time OR you can do a night waiver now and then later do an airspace authorizations when needed."

 

[Kilrah]

I'm calling BS! Do you know how many professional sUAS operators have every single waiver for the airspace around them for over 100 miles?

Aah, that's permanent waivers, ok, my bad then. In that case for sure get everything you can as soon as you can.

Here we have the issue that you need a separate, specific authorization for each event. so if someone wants you to film say an open air concert you have to request permission for that one event, and that can take 3 months to be processed. And of course the guys always only get the super idea of using a drone a week before the event.

 

[Kneebeard]

Aah, that's permanent waivers, ok, my bad then. In that case for sure get everything you can as soon as you can.

Here we have the issue that you need a separate, specific authorization for each event. so if someone wants you to film say an open air concert you have to request permission for that one event, and that can take 3 months to be processed. And of course the guys always only get the super idea of using a drone a week before the event.

I see your challenge. Unfortunately professionals will always have to deal with "hobbyists for hire" who will fly illegally and be cheaper.
Gently remind your client(s) that if there's an accident resulting in a lawsuit or a governmental fine, they may ultimately be found responsible and potentially liable...
Stick to the high road. Fly safe!

 

[BigAl07]

Aah, that's permanent waivers, ok, my bad then. In that case for sure get everything you can as soon as you can.

Here we have the issue that you need a separate, specific authorization for each event. so if someone wants you to film say an open air concert you have to request permission for that one event, and that can take 3 months to be processed. And of course the guys always only get the super idea of using a drone a week before the event.

Ahhh yes. That's a whole other ball of wax and can be difficult to deal with.

 

[BigAl07]

I see your challenge. Unfortunately professionals will always have to deal with "hobbyists for hire" who will fly illegally and be cheaper.
Gently remind your client(s) that if there's an accident resulting in a lawsuit or a governmental fine, they may ultimately be found responsible and potentially liable...
Stick to the high road. Fly safe!

You can also "gently" remind them that if something happens the operator of the sUAS and the person hiring them can be fined heavily. No need to mention this has never happened because it "could" happen. I think the fine was up to $2,500 for the operator and up to $11,000 for the company/person hiring them.

I think that's pretty much what @Kneebeard was saying above.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

All responses notwithstanding...

The OPs frustration in the government creating roadblocks, and then:

A. Not enforcing those roadblocks across the board...

B. Allowing those who dont have to jump through those hoops to operate illegally in a commercial activity.

... are completely valid frustrations, and should infuriate all of us, who play by the rules.

 

[crlmjohnson]

People who work in government have no idea of how the real world works. Business moves fast, and a 90 day wait for a 107 waiver is just not acceptable.

A client brought up the idea of a night flight two weeks ago. This is a long-time client who has brought much work to me, and who is also demanding. It was because of his insistence that I got a drone, then learned that to use the drone for paying clients, a license is needed. I took a course, took the test, and got the license. Now that I have it, many clients don't understand the restrictions I am now obligated to fly with, and subsequently am losing jobs because others who have drones--but no license--are willing to fly anyway. This is quite the dilemma.

I applied for the 107 waiver 14 days ago and read that there have been instances where it has been approved in 10 days. I leave for the shoot in an hour, I've still got no waiver, yet have a client that will demand I fly in the dark. If I don't, he'll get the competitor to do it, someone who will do it illegally. If I fly, it will also be illegal. We discussed a similar case in the drone class, but here I am in the situation in real life.

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

just do the right thing.

 

[dazapper]

I'm a bit confused. By requesting the waiver, it was my understanding that the nighttime waiver was for one-time use. By going to the FAA Dronezone, completing the application and successfully getting the waiver mean it is for blanket nighttime coverage?

 

[crlmjohnson]

that's correct, depending on what you are planning on doing.

 

[Madmax229]

unfortunately, you are doing the right thing! [Moderator Removed]

 

[dmcgrew]

Could you fly within the 30 min window before sunrise and after sunset? Would it be dark enough then? I personally cannot wait for the FAA to just allow night flying without a waiver. It's stupid that a hobby flyer can fly at night but someone with a 107 can't.

 

[AMann]

Remember that question on the 107 about what type of unsafe behavior the pushy boss had for wanting you to fly a job against FAA regs anyways?

 

[dazapper]

Remember that question on the 107 about what type of unsafe behavior the pushy boss had for wanting you to fly a job against FAA regs anyways?

Absolutely, and "invincibility" immediately comes to mind.

 

[dazapper]

We did the shoot last night and thankfully the use of the drone never came up, we were far too busy doing the ground shooting. I would have passed on flying for a number of reasons, the first was the lack of the waiver, but more importantly, the minimum LOS weather requirements were not met because of a low ceiling. But this likely wouldn't have phased the director, his non-licensed buddy likely would have flown if requested. Dodged a bullet on this one.

 

[AKflyer]

I think it's safe to say we all like money, but having integrity and ethics means doing the right thing at the right time because you know it's right, not because it's convenient or you need the money. If your client continues pushing you to fly after knowing it's illegal, he's demonstrating his lack of ethics and integrity. As uncomfortable of a choice as it is, it's up to you to pick what level of integrity and ethics you will respond with. How far are they going to keep pushing you, and where will you draw the line? Those are important questions to ask yourself.

I feel for you, because I used to run into situations like this all the time flying airplanes in the bush. For a long time, I avoided making large financial commitments such as buying a house, or a new car, because I was personally committed to being safe and doing the right thing. It was important to me to maintain the ability to walk away from an assignment that I didn't feel was right without feeling financially pressured. Eventually, I found an employer who paid a premium exactly because they valued safety and integrity in their employees. This employer is still thriving. Most of the other clients no longer exist.

I'm just going through the process of interviewing for an airline job. One of the typical kinds of questions they are expected to ask is "Tell us about a time you were asked to do something unsafe or illegal, and what did you do?" I wonder if I told them that I took the job because I wanted the money, would they hire me?

Start by doing the right thing and all else will eventually follow.

 

[Cymruflyer]

Good luck with the interview. Hope you get the job.