noob questions about Part 107

[Bruce Burbank]

If my UA weighs less than .55 pounds (like a Mavic Mini 2), then I’m not required to register it with the FAA. Correct? Correct.

As long as I’m not making money using it, aka using it commercially, I don’t need to be Part 107 licensed. Correct? Correct.

But, if I’m just flying that drone recreationally, am I still beholden to all the FAA rules and regulations in Part 107? I mean, obviously I can’t just take it zooming around the airport. But not all drone pilots need to take and pass the part 107 test, right? So if I don’t take that test, what rules to I still need to know and follow?

Hypothetical-

Also, say if, using that same sub-.55 pound drone, I shoot videos and photos for myself of various parts of the city or the unincorporated parts on the outskirts or out in the middle of nowhere. Say I work at a big hospital. Say that somebody in the Marketing department at the hospital wants to use some of my footage, some weeks or months after I shot it, in some promo video that they’re making for the hospital.

Say that I give them my footage for this purpose. Give, not sell. No money changes hands for this specific project, for this specific footage. Still, they’re my employer and I’m their employee, and I get a paycheck from them every other week. Yet no sort of videography or photography is part of my job description, totally not what I normally do for the hospital.

Am I in violation of any Part 107 rules in this exchange, remembering that my drone isn’t registered and I’m not Part 107 certified?

 

[Tomk_]

I think you are mistaken in your understanding of weights. The threshold for the exemption to registration is .55 lbs. Not 5.5 lbs.

Making money or not is not the yardstick for part 107. You need the part 107 anytime you are flying for other than recreation. Basically, you need part 107 if you fly because someone else asked you to - regardless if any money is involved. On the other hand, if you happen to take a picture, for your own enjoyment, when you are flying recreationally... and later someone offers to buy the picture from you, you are completely legal to sell it to them - even if you don't have part 107.

In the example you gave, you can give or sell the footage even if you don't have part 107. If they had asked you to record the footage... you could not legally make the flight, let alone even give them the footage without part 107.

 

[Bruce Burbank]

I think you are mistaken in your understanding of weights. The threshold for the exemption to registration is .55 lbs. Not 5.5 lbs.

Ah yes, I screwed that up, .55. But Mini 2 is still less than .55, yes? Website specs say less than 249 grams, and google search says 249 grams = .5489 pounds. Point being that it isn't required to be registered, but I think you understood that. I'll edit my original post.

 

[Vic Moss]

@Tomk_ has the correct answer.

One thing you didn't mention was the TRUST. That is necessary for recreational flyers to fly in the U.S.

It's quick, free, and easy to take. You literally can't fail it. FAA TRUST Online Portal for Recreational Drone Operators - Pilot Institute is the best place to take it in my opinion. And they're a sponsor of these forums. Take it, and print out your competition certificate. Carry it with you in your wallet or drone case.

 

[Bruce Burbank]

Making money or not is not the yardstick for part 107. You need the part 107 anytime you are flying for other than recreation. Basically, you need part 107 if you fly because someone else asked you to - regardless if any money is involved. On the other hand, if you happen to take a picture, for your own enjoyment, when you are flying recreationally... and later someone offers to buy the picture from you, you are completely legal to sell it to them - even if you don't have part 107.

In the example you gave, you can give or sell the footage even if you don't have part 107. If they had asked you to record the footage... you could not legally make the flight, let alone even give them the footage without part 107.

Ah, ok, so it’s not that money changes hands or not, it’s that I’m flying at somebody else’s behest?

So say, for example, if I have a buddy who is doing some major remodel of his house, and he wants me to get some before and after drone shots. Even though he’s not paying me anything, the fact that he requested it is the thing that defines this as flying commercially.

Is that right?

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

Anything other than use for your own enjoyment for the flight would be Part 107. You can't fly for anyone else for your enjoyment.

 

[Bruce Burbank]

One thing you didn't mention was the TRUST. That is necessary for recreational flyers to fly in the U.S.

It's quick, free, and easy to take. You literally can't fail it. www.trust.pilotinsitute.com is the best place to take it in my opinion. And they're a sponsor of these forums. Take it, and print out your competition certificate. Carry it with you in your wallet or drone case.

Hmm, interesting. I hadn’t heard of this. Thanks for the info.

Now that I check that link, though, that site won’t load for people like me who have ad blocker(s). Anywhere else I can access it?

 

[Bruce Burbank]

Found some links to TRUST-

The Recreational UAS Safety Test (TRUST)

www.faa.gov

 

[Vic Moss]

Hmm, interesting. I hadn’t heard of this. Thanks for the info.

Now that I check that link, though, it won’t load for people like me who have ad blocker(s). Anywhere else I can access it?

That's because I apparently can't type this morning.

Try this one: FAA TRUST Online Portal for Recreational Drone Operators - Pilot Institute

Sorry 'bout that...

I'll fix the other link.

 

[vindibona1]

Hypothetical-

Also, say if, using that same sub-.55 pound drone, I shoot videos and photos for myself of various parts of the city or the unincorporated parts on the outskirts or out in the middle of nowhere. Say I work at a big hospital. Say that somebody in the Marketing department at the hospital wants to use some of my footage, some weeks or months after I shot it, in some promo video that they’re making for the hospital.

Say that I give them my footage for this purpose. Give, not sell. No money changes hands for this specific project, for this specific footage. Still, they’re my employer and I’m their employee, and I get a paycheck from them every other week. Yet no sort of videography or photography is part of my job description, totally not what I normally do for the hospital.

Am I in violation of any Part 107 rules in this exchange, remembering that my drone isn’t registered and I’m not Part 107 certified?

Thanks for your questions. FAA drone rules are very nuanced and often confusing. I hope to clarify some things for you.

Generally and roughly speaking, as a rule, photos/video that is shot "recreationally" cannot (legally) be used commercially in the future. INTENT AT THE TIME OF FILMING is the deciding factor. Based on your hypothetical statement you are saying that yeah, you'll shoot recreationally now, but down the road offer it for their commercial use. Your statement of future intent invalidates the recreational category, so you would be in violation of Part 107. There are some nuances to that too, that I'm not sure of.

Part 107 pilots can elect to be shooting recreationally or commercially. I have a Part 107 cert but as I practice flying with camera on I consider that to be recreational as I have no intent of using those images for anything other than self evaluation. Here's where the confusing part comes in. Hypothetically, as a part 107 pilot I produce a project that was intended for my personal use. A client sees the project and wants me to customize it and sell it to them. There is a shade of gray there because there really isn't a formal declaration of intent. While it may be technically that I would not be allowed to sell the project, with a Part 107 cert I doubt that the FAA would be banging down my door as they would have no way of knowing what my original intent would have been at the time of filming other than my word.

My advice: 1) Even if you have a sub 250 gram drone register it anyway. The moment you add a strobe or landing gear or lens hood you'll be over the 250g limit. 2) Start studying for and take the Part 107 exam. The knowledge itself will help you in many ways and the certificate will reward you with privileges that are not available to non 107 recreational pilots.

 

[GSteve]

A few years back I worked with a friend who shot some drone footage for a video I produced. A few months later I actually received a phone call from the FAA asking if I paid the drone pilot for the aerial footage. I told them "No" and that seemed to be the end of the matter.

At that time, the implied takeaway was that there were no laws violated as long as there was no payment was made for the aerial footage, i.e., it was not "commercial."

 

[vindibona1]

A few years back I worked with a friend who shot some drone footage for a video I produced. A few months later I actually received a phone call from the FAA asking if I paid the drone pilot for the aerial footage. I told them "No" and that seemed to be the end of the matter.

At that time, the implied takeaway was that there were no laws violated as long as there was no payment was made for the aerial footage, i.e., it was not "commercial."

If your friend was not a Part 107 pilot or working under the direction of one, he was in fact in violation. The fact that the FAA didn't choose to pursue it after you denied making a payment more so indicates their unwillingness to dedicate any more manpower to investigate the situation and was lenient on the application of the rule. But know that if lacking the Part 107 it was in clear violation.

In fact, there was (is) a video from an FAA official who described the difference between recreational and commerical categorizations, and to my surprised, he indicated that his interpretation of a violation (in some cases) would even be as innocuous as posting a video on Facebook if it had any kind of promotional, even personal promotional intent. He went on to say something about turning the camera on inadvertently vs intentionally. IMO his interpretation went a little too far, but we have to remember when dealing with government officials, their positions are often "the law is what I say it is". I can cite numerous examples, but would be edited by the forum administrators.

 

[Vic Moss]

Thanks for your questions. FAA drone rules are very nuanced and often confusing. I hope to clarify some things for you.

Generally and roughly speaking, as a rule, photos/video that is shot "recreationally" cannot (legally) be used commercially in the future.

Actually, that is incorrect. It is perfectly legal to use recreational imagery for gain in the future. At one point there was a memo titled "Media use of UAS" published, and it dealt with using recreationally gathered footage for non-recreational purposes. It is 100% allowed, that's not even debated anymore.

Currently that paper is not in the FAA's Policy Document Library because it's currently being re-written. It was put out in 2015, and has antiquated language (333, PL112-95, etc.). But expect that memo to be back with modern language.

INTENT AT THE TIME OF FILMING is the deciding factor.

Absolutely.

Based on your hypothetical statement you are saying that yeah, you'll shoot recreationally now, but down the road offer it for their commercial use. Your statement of future intent invalidates the recreational category, so you would be in violation of Part 107. There are some nuances to that too, that I'm not sure of.

Actually, he's just asking in a hypothetical here. "What if" is the crux of his question. So he is still legal. Possible "future intent" isn't part of the equation for the decision if it's a recreational flight. If that were true, there would never be a purely recreational flight.

Part 107 pilots can elect to be shooting recreationally or commercially. I have a Part 107 cert but as I practice flying with camera on I consider that to be recreational as I have no intent of using those images for anything other than self evaluation. Here's where the confusing part comes in. Hypothetically, as a part 107 pilot I produce a project that was intended for my personal use. A client sees the project and wants me to customize it and sell it to them. There is a shade of gray there because there really isn't a formal declaration of intent.

There is no need for a formal declaration. No one from the FAA is going to question it's future use. It's 100% on the person flying to make that determination. And there is no gray area at all.

We tend to make it more confusing than it has to be.

It's very simple. It's either a recreational flight or a non-recreational flight. That's it. What we do after that flight isn't a concern to the FAA.

While it may be technically that I would not be allowed to sell the project, with a Part 107 cert I doubt that the FAA would be banging down my door as they would have no way of knowing what my original intent would have been at the time of filming other than my word.

Which is my point. The FAA doesn't care about future sales. They're going to assume that the decision of made before the flight took place. What happens after that isn't of their concern.

If someone were to sell past imagery all the time, then it may raise some eyebrows. But only if someone reported it to the FAA.

My advice: 1) Even if you have a sub 250 gram drone register it anyway. The moment you add a strobe or landing gear or lens hood you'll be over the 250g limit. 2) Start studying for and take the Part 107 exam. The knowledge itself will help you in many ways and the certificate will reward you with privileges that are not available to non 107 recreational pilots.

I agree 100% with you here. It's a cheap $5 insurance card. And if an LEO comes out due to someone complaining about a drone, they'll likely be expecting to see a registration number on the drone. Just having it there is easier than explaining why you don't technically need one.

 

[Rich QR]

If my UA weighs less than .55 pounds (like a Mavic Mini 2), then I’m not required to register it with the FAA. Correct? Correct.

As long as you're flying under 44809, that's correct. If you fly under Part 107, it's required to be registered, regardless of weight.

As long as I’m not making money using it, aka using it commercially, I don’t need to be Part 107 licensed. Correct? Correct.

Not quite. As long as you're flying it "strictly for recreational purposes", you may fly without a license under section 44809, and you don't need to fly under Part 107, which would require licensing. The idea of whether the flight is commercial or not doesn't appear in the law or regulations. But commercial flight is one of the most obvious ways to make a flight fall outside of the "strictly for recreational purposes" category.

But, if I’m just flying that drone recreationally, am I still beholden to all the FAA rules and regulations in Part 107?

No. In fact, Part 107.1(b)(2) says that Part 107 does not apply to you if you're flying under and complying with the rules of section 49 USC 44809. And 49 USC 44809(b) says that if you don't comply with all of the limitations in 44809(a), then you must fly under another set of rules, which would be Part 107 (barring unusual situations which might allow flight under something else like Part 91).

So you fly under either Part 107 or 44809, and whichever one you fly under, the other one doesn't apply. But practically speaking, many of the rules are very similar. For example, they both require maintaining visual line of sight, and they both generally are limited to 400' AGL (though 107 allows going higher if you're near a tall structure).

I mean, obviously I can’t just take it zooming around the airport. But not all drone pilots need to take and pass the part 107 test, right? So if I don’t take that test, what rules to I still need to know and follow?

Hypothetical-

Also, say if, using that same sub-.55 pound drone, I shoot videos and photos for myself of various parts of the city or the unincorporated parts on the outskirts or out in the middle of nowhere. Say I work at a big hospital. Say that somebody in the Marketing department at the hospital wants to use some of my footage, some weeks or months after I shot it, in some promo video that they’re making for the hospital.

Say that I give them my footage for this purpose. Give, not sell. No money changes hands for this specific project, for this specific footage. Still, they’re my employer and I’m their employee, and I get a paycheck from them every other week. Yet no sort of videography or photography is part of my job description, totally not what I normally do for the hospital.

Am I in violation of any Part 107 rules in this exchange, remembering that my drone isn’t registered and I’m not Part 107 certified?

If you're not licensed for Part 107, you're in violation of Part 107, and therefore none of the rules of Part 107 are available to you. You may fly without a license under Section 44809, but 44809(a)(1) insists that under those rules, the flight must be "strictly for recreational purposes". If the flight was "strictly for recreational purposes", there's no limitation on what is later done with images gathered. The problem is, if you repeatedly give images to your employer, the authorities may rightfully suspect that your flights are not "strictly for recreational purposes", and you may be placed in the difficult position of trying to convince them that you had no motivation other than your own personal recreation behind your flights.

FYI, Here's a link to section 44809. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml...lim-title49-section44809&num=0&edition=prelim

 

[Dbez1]

To the OP…you got some very good information here that has been helpful to many. Thanks for the question and thanks to those who provided the answers.

 

[Chaosrider]

As long as you're flying under 44809, that's correct. If you fly under Part 107, it's required to be registered, regardless of weight.



Not quite. As long as you're flying it "strictly for recreational purposes", you may fly without a license under section 44809, and you don't need to fly under Part 107, which would require licensing. The idea of whether the flight is commercial or not doesn't appear in the law or regulations. But commercial flight is one of the most obvious ways to make a flight fall outside of the "strictly for recreational purposes" category.



No. In fact, Part 107.1(b)(2) says that Part 107 does not apply to you if you're flying under and complying with the rules of section 49 USC 44809. And 49 USC 44809(b) says that if you don't comply with all of the limitations in 44809(a), then you must fly under another set of rules, which would be Part 107 (barring unusual situations which might allow flight under something else like Part 91).

So you fly under either Part 107 or 44809, and whichever one you fly under, the other one doesn't apply. But practically speaking, many of the rules are very similar. For example, they both require maintaining visual line of sight, and they both generally are limited to 400' AGL (though 107 allows going higher if you're near a tall structure).


If you're not licensed for Part 107, you're in violation of Part 107, and therefore none of the rules of Part 107 are available to you. You may fly without a license under Section 44809, but 44809(a)(1) insists that under those rules, the flight must be "strictly for recreational purposes". If the flight was "strictly for recreational purposes", there's no limitation on what is later done with images gathered. The problem is, if you repeatedly give images to your employer, the authorities may rightfully suspect that your flights are not "strictly for recreational purposes", and you may be placed in the difficult position of trying to convince them that you had no motivation other than your own personal recreation behind your flights.

FYI, Here's a link to section 44809. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml...lim-title49-section44809&num=0&edition=prelim

Very informative, thanks!

I think I know the answer to my following question, but maybe not.

I have three DJI Mini 2s. I also have my Part 107 license. I've never flown any of my drones for commercial purposes...yet.

If I understand correctly, if I want to fly under Part 107 rules, regardless of whether the flight itself is commercial or recreational, then the drone that I use for that flight needs to be registered. Right?

Is there any reason that I couldn't register one of my drones, and leave the other two as unregistered "non-107s"?

Is there any downside to registration?

If I do register one of my Mini 2s, is there any reason that I could not then legally load it up with stuff (extra strobes, say) that would push it above the 250 gram limit?

My personal droning plans got put on hold for three months while I was living in a roiling cauldron of California wildfire smoke, and I'm just now starting to get seriously re-engaged.

Thanks again, and comments appreciated.

TCS

 

[Macronaut59]

Very informative, thanks!

I think I know the answer to my following question, but maybe not.

I have three DJI Mini 2s. I also have my Part 107 license. I've never flown any of my drones for commercial purposes...yet.

If I understand correctly, if I want to fly under Part 107 rules, regardless of whether the flight itself is commercial or recreational, then the drone that I use for that flight needs to be registered. Right?

Is there any reason that I couldn't register one of my drones, and leave the other two as unregistered "non-107s"?

Is there any downside to registration?

If I do register one of my Mini 2s, is there any reason that I could not then legally load it up with stuff (extra strobes, say) that would push it above the 250 gram limit?

My personal droning plans got put on hold for three months while I was living in a roiling cauldron of California wildfire smoke, and I'm just now starting to get seriously re-engaged.

Thanks again, and comments appreciated.

TCS

If I understand correctly, Multiple drones use the same registration number. So, why not?

 

[SethB]

If I understand correctly, if I want to fly under Part 107 rules, regardless of whether the flight itself is commercial or recreational, then the drone that I use for that flight needs to be registered. Right?

Is there any reason that I couldn't register one of my drones, and leave the other two as unregistered "non-107s"?

Is there any downside to registration?

If I do register one of my Mini 2s, is there any reason that I could not then legally load it up with stuff (extra strobes, say) that would push it above the 250 gram limit?

I’m a little unsure as to the registration requirement for a sub-250g drone on a Pt. 107 flight.

There are no downsides to registration.

If I understand correctly, Multiple drones use the same registration number. So, why not?

If you register as recreational, your $5 will cover as many drones as you wish.
If you register as non-rec, your $5 will cover one drone.

Either registration allows you to load up your Mini 2 past 250g.

 

[Chaosrider]

If I understand correctly, Multiple drones use the same registration number. So, why not?

Don't they ask for a serial number when you register?

Thx,

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I’m a little unsure as to the registration requirement for a sub-250g drone on a Pt. 107 flight.

There are no downsides to registration.

If you register as recreational, your $5 will cover as many drones as you wish.
If you register as non-rec, your $5 will cover one drone.

Either registration allows you to load up your Mini 2 past 250g.

Ahh, but if I understand correctly, if I register as recreational, I won't then be able to operate it under the Part 107 rules.

Is that right?

Thx,

TCS