Normal colour mode + h265 possible?

HomeyJay · Oct 27, 2018

Just getting to grips with my very new M2P. I use my iPad Pro and LumaFusion app to edit footage but alas the app can not compensate for the lens distortion of the M2P so I use the Normal colour mode. I was wondering if there was any way to use h265 with this mode - I’m just curious to try it to see what difference it will make!

Roamer105 · Oct 27, 2018

Yes it is.

parkgt · Oct 28, 2018

Roamer105 said:
Yes it is.

How? When I checked, anytime Normal has been selected the file was an 8 bit file not a H.265 10 bit. It didn't matter that normal and H.265 were both selected.

Kilrah · Oct 28, 2018

In normal it of course won't be 10bit, but you should be able to do 8bit h265.

parkgt · Oct 28, 2018

Kilrah said:
In normal it of course won't be 10bit, but you should be able to do 8bit h265.

Kilrah, What is the advantage to Normal in 8 bit H.265 vs H.264, just file size?

Kilrah · Oct 28, 2018

Size is same, but since h265 is more efficient the quality should be a bit higher with fewer compression artifacts/less noise. Have not compared myself nor seen others doing it so far yet to see if it's really the case though.

HomeyJay · Oct 28, 2018

Hmm, filmed in Normal and H265 but LumaFusion says it’s H264 when the file is played back.
Are you guys sure that you can film in Normal / H265?

Hedonist222 · Dec 5, 2018

HomeyJay said:
Hmm, filmed in Normal and H265 but LumaFusion says it’s H264 when the file is played back.
Are you guys sure that you can film in Normal / H265?

What does the manual say?

sar104 · Dec 5, 2018

Hedonist222 said:
What does the manual say?

The Mavic 2 Pro supports video formats MP4 and MOV, providing Normal, D-Log, and HLG color modes. In Normal mode, H.264 and H.265 code formats are supported. In D-Log or HLG mode, onlyH.265 is supported.

Mavic 2 manual v1.6, p. 38.

Dakrisht · May 21, 2019

Old thread here but Luma converts 10-bit color to 8-bit color. So you’re not editing 10-bit color using Luma unfortunately. Bit of a scam :/

CanadaDrone · May 21, 2019

Dakrisht said:
Old thread here but Luma converts 10-bit color to 8-bit color. So you’re not editing 10-bit color using Luma unfortunately. Bit of a scam :/

It's not really a 'scam', it's a known limitation of their software and they don't force anyone to buy it

You can still edit your 10bit footage and use LUTs designed for 10bit DLog in Luma, you just don't get 10bits of file malleability.

A bigger issue IMHO is they don't offer lens distortion correction yet, if they did I wouldn't care nearly as much.

Dakrisht · May 22, 2019

CanadaDrone said:
It's not really a 'scam', it's a known limitation of their software and they don't force anyone to buy it

You can still edit your 10bit footage and use LUTs designed for 10bit DLog in Luma, you just don't get 10bits of file malleability.

A bigger issue IMHO is they don't offer lens distortion correction yet, if they did I wouldn't care nearly as much.

I can’t understand why they haven’t updated their app since Apple announced 10-bit HEVC supoort in December of 2018. While not a small task, it can’t and shouldn’t take 6 months to implement this change and take advantage of iPad Pro hardware. And yes, lens distortion correction is another issue.

I’ve only had limited time with Luma but compared to Resolve when it comes to color correction, well there’s simply no comparison.

But editing on your iPad is just such a convenience.

Dakrisht · May 22, 2019

Kilrah said:
Size is same, but since h265 is more efficient the quality should be a bit higher with fewer compression artifacts/less noise. Have not compared myself nor seen others doing it so far yet to see if it's really the case though.

I wish this was true. There’s absolutely no noticeable or technical difference in the data stored in an H264 or H265 container. The source data is what matters and if the source is the same, the container is irrelevant.

sar104 · May 22, 2019

Dakrisht said:
I wish this was true. There’s absolutely no noticeable or technical difference in the data stored in an H264 or H265 container. The source data is what matters and if the source is the same, the container is irrelevant.

H.264 and H.265 are not containers, they are codecs used to compress the video data. And the efficiency of the codec absolutely makes a difference to the amount of retrievable data in the video.

Dakrisht · May 22, 2019

sar104 said:
H.264 and H.265 are not containers, they are codecs used to compress the video data. And the efficiency of the codec absolutely makes a difference to the amount of retrievable data in the video.

Correction on containers, MOV and MP4 are the containers.

Ok sure, I’m aware they’re completely different algos. And I’ve started another thread a few days ago to actually get tangible data (both technical and visible) to show H265 being better quality than H264 when shooting a Normal, 8-bit video but so far... nothing.

And my own internal comparisons show no differences either. H265 holds more data at or below the H264 codec and compresses more efficiently.

sar104 · May 22, 2019

Dakrisht said:
Correction on containers, MOV and MP4 are the containers.

Ok sure, I’m aware they’re completely different algos. And I’ve started another thread a few days ago to actually get tangible data (both technical and visible) to show H265 being better quality than H264 when shooting a Normal, 8-bit video but so far... nothing.

And my own internal comparisons show no differences either. H265 holds more data at or below the H264 codec and compresses more efficiently.

Whether you can see a difference is a separate question. The H.265 codec is approximately twice as efficient, so an equivalent data rate or file size will contain twice as much video data as the H.264 equivalent. Maybe I'm missing your point?

Dakrisht · May 22, 2019

sar104 said:
Whether you can see a difference is a separate question. The H.265 codec is approximately twice as efficient, so an equivalent data rate or file size will contain twice as much video data as the H.264 equivalent. Maybe I'm missing your point?

No disagreement on codec efficiency here. I deeply understand the differences in compression efficiency.

My point was / is: there’s no visually noticeable difference whatsoever on video shot in Normal 8-bit color mode between H264 and H265.

Obviously shooting D-Log 10-bit is a different story but I believe OP as well as myself are trying to understand / justify using HEVC for a normal 8-bit video clip.

sar104 · May 22, 2019

Dakrisht said:
My point was / is: there’s no visually noticeable difference whatsoever on video shot in Normal 8-bit color mode between H264 and H265.

I'm confused - surely you are not arguing that the compression efficiency, i.e. the amount of data discarded for a given data rate reduction, makes no difference to the quality of the video. The difference is the file size or data rate - for equivalent compression it's 50% smaller with H.265.

Dakrisht · May 22, 2019

sar104 said:
I'm confused - surely you are not arguing that the compression efficiency, i.e. the amount of data discarded for a given data rate reduction, makes no difference to the quality of the video. The difference is the file size or data rate - for equivalent compression it's 50% smaller with H.265.

No I’m not arguing that at all. It’s a more efficient compression algorithm and more mathematically complex hence why a lot of systems struggle to edit / work with it.

What I’m saying is that video shot on the M2P in Normal, 8-bit color mode is no different visually than h264 vs. h265. There’s no difference in the output quality. It looks the same.

And file size is also no more than 10% smaller - certainly not 50%. But the file size / compression argument is still valid because HEVC can pack more data into a smaller file size but this only works when you actually have MORE data (such as a more complex color space like 4:2:2 and 10-bits of color shading).

The only thing I’m saying: there’s no need to shoot in HEVC h265 if you’re shooting NORMAL video. The deliverable is the same.

I shot two clips yesterday, both 25 seconds in length, both in normal, in both formats. H264 was around 327MB while H265 was 318MB - and of course, they both looked identical at 100x 200x 500x crops, no difference in video clarity, shading, color, artificers, etc.

CanadaDrone · May 22, 2019

Dakrisht said:
I can’t understand why they haven’t updated their app since Apple announced 10-bit HEVC supoort in December of 2018. While not a small task, it can’t and shouldn’t take 6 months to implement this change and take advantage of iPad Pro hardware. And yes, lens distortion correction is another issue.

I’ve only had limited time with Luma but compared to Resolve when it comes to color correction, well there’s simply no comparison.

But editing on your iPad is just such a convenience.

They are a very small team, which is likely the reason major changes in support take so much time.

And I agree with the convenience factor - I use Luma to edit my travel videos on the plane and they are ready to show the family by the time I am home, which is basically end the end usage of most of my video.