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"Over Water" mode for drones

Desert Sands

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I've spent this past weekend reading the tragic stories of Drone splashdowns, and wonder if DJI could develop a "Smart mode" to disable, or adapt the vertical sensors to deal with water issues. Yes, I'm aware that some (but not all) DJI AC allow this by a menu click. I'm thinking, a mode that figures out when the "ground signature" changes to water... and a notification pops up recommending switching to water mode. Now maybe this has been discussed before, and the down sensors are not up to the task... but with the brilliant coders at DJI (and on the balance, they are), there should be a way to reduce these tragic losses experienced by both new and experienced pilots alike.

While I'm not sure if DJI monitors these forums or not. Perhaps some of the more seasoned members might have a way of getting this idea through to engineering at DJI.

Just a thought.
 
The problem is that Sensors need to be faster and that requires faster chips and were just not there yet, and you have the shortage of Chips now so , not going to see any break thrus anytime soon. Sensors are a help but not a solution.

This is why so many drones hit trees , the sensors all work but not fast enough. When they make faster chips for the drones than the Sensors will really be something. but until than we have to just play the cards we have.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain and land on the Water.
 
I've spent this past weekend reading the tragic stories of Drone splashdowns, and wonder if DJI could develop a "Smart mode" to disable, or adapt the vertical sensors to deal with water issues.
Good intentions, but probably not cost-effective. The truth is, I fly over water all the time without any issues...but not at low altitudes. As log as you recognize certain environments/terrains (like flying over water or flying under bridges) pose additional risk, you can take the necessary precautions for a safe RTH.
 
I've spent this past weekend reading the tragic stories of Drone splashdowns, and wonder if DJI could develop a "Smart mode" to disable, or adapt the vertical sensors to deal with water issues.
There's a lot of confusion about water and sensors.
I haven't seen a splashdown incident that could be blamed on the sensors.
The sensors don't pull drones downwards into water and you shouldn't have any problem flying over water whether the sensors are on or off.

The sensors can be confused by water.
It won't allow horizontal position holding, just like featureless solid surfaces won't.


While I'm not sure if DJI monitors these forums or not.
They don't (and they barely monitor their own forum).
 
I Understand... reading the reports from the unfortunates who have lost their drones there seems to be a common thread... the drone seems to be confused by water (and maybe snow as well) as if the sensor is looking below the surface... and trying to land on what it sees as earth. I do understand the sensor isn't "pulling" the drone in... but instead does not perceive the waters surface as a fluid surface, but rather air being diffused with a solid surface below it. If there was a "Water Mode" the sensors could perhaps be trained to look for spectral characteristics of the reflections off the water.
Again, I am not a Coder, though I did machine and assembly language for mini computers back in the 70s. So with the problems with the semiconductor industry, what I'm suggesting might be years away...if ever. Just a suggestion, but as you stated...nobody but us kids monitoring this forum.
Thanks for your patience with my blathering.

Joe
 
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I Understand... reading the reports from the unfortunates who have lost their drones there seems to be a common thread... the drone seems to be confused by water (and maybe snow as well) as if the sensor is looking below the surface... and trying to land on what it sees as earth.
If you hover 2 feet above solid ground, does your drone try to land itself?
Why should it if it's hovering above water?
 
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I am not sure... I keep reading about "uncommanded descents", not sure if these are limited to water or if they occur on land as well. If they are limited to water... then it deserves being looked into, as well as any uncommitted action by a drone. When I see so much consistency in these reports, I believe there maybe something to look into here.
 
I am not sure... I keep reading about "uncommanded descents", not sure if these are limited to water or if they occur on land as well. If they are limited to water... then it deserves being looked into, as well as any uncommitted action by a drone. When I see so much consistency in these reports, I believe there maybe something to look into here.
The original Mini was prone to uncommanded descent before Firmware 1.0.5 fixed it.
It had nothing to do with the downward sensors or water, and would happen anywhere and from any height.
It was just that the drone would descend and fail to respond to joystick input that should have stopped the descending.
 
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Most body of waters to include lakes is already noted and located on the drones onboard GPS mapping, therefore it would not require as complex programming to combine that with tthe downward looking cameras and sensors.

Fly Safe - Mike
 
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Most body of waters to include lakes is already noted and located on the drones onboard GPS mapping, therefore it would not require as complex programming to combine that with tthe downward looking cameras and sensors.
Can you imagine the size of the database the AC would need to map every body of water in the world? Remember, all that info would need to be stored on the AC as it has no "internet connection" to download mapping information in real time.
 
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Most body of waters to include lakes is already noted and located on the drones onboard GPS mapping
Except that no DJI drone has any onboard GPS mapping or anything to show where water bodies might be.
Land or water, , pond or ocean, there's nothing to indicate what's below your drone.

But none of this matters anyway as there's no need for the hypothetical "over water mode".
 
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I fly over water on many flights, both ocean and lakes, and have no issues when waves are present with keeping level flight. On calm water days, on a few occasions I have encountered a decent of about 5-6 ft in ‘straight and level’ flight on the Mini 2 when deaccelerating or accelerating without flight stick input. It could be many things not linked to the drone controls like temperature and air density over water or change in wind currents. It does recover altitude but not before the drop and seems to happen at distances over 300 metres out.

I accept this flight characteristic & I don’t fly too low (30 ft+) in these condition as which gives the margin of error needed and this may very well have been corrected in new updates - I just haven’t tested it!
 
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I've spent this past weekend reading the tragic stories of Drone splashdowns, and wonder if DJI could develop a "Smart mode" to disable, or adapt the vertical sensors to deal with water issues. Yes, I'm aware that some (but not all) DJI AC allow this by a menu click. I'm thinking, a mode that figures out when the "ground signature" changes to water... and a notification pops up recommending switching to water mode. Now maybe this has been discussed before, and the down sensors are not up to the task... but with the brilliant coders at DJI (and on the balance, they are), there should be a way to reduce these tragic losses experienced by both new and experienced pilots alike.

While I'm not sure if DJI monitors these forums or not. Perhaps some of the more seasoned members might have a way of getting this idea through to engineering at DJI.

Just a thought.
It’s a feasible addition I would think. I’d also consider, since this is an obvious concern, I’d think about making an inexpensive investment in a wetsuit. Phantomrain has water/rain gear worth the look. Or give him a shout. As the ole adage goes, “Better safe than soggy?” Godspeed
Btw should you see this post (Feel free to use that line lmao.)
 
The problem is that Sensors need to be faster and that requires faster chips and were just not there yet, and you have the shortage of Chips now so , not going to see any break thrus anytime soon. Sensors are a help but not a solution.

This is why so many drones hit trees , the sensors all work but not fast enough. When they make faster chips for the drones than the Sensors will really be something. but until than we have to just play the cards we have.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain and land on the Water.
And keep in mind that on some drones such as the MA2, there are no sideways obstacle detectors. That's how I crashed mine once.
 
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I keep reading about "uncommanded descents", not sure if these are limited to water or if they occur on land as well.
Those were caused by prop deformation, totally unrelated to water. Previous firmware versions warned of "Max Power Reached" errors. Firmware 1.0.5 introduced a new "Motor Speed Error" warning with explicit instructions to replace the propeller blades on the affected motor identified by the beeping ESC after landing. The warning was later revised to even more explicitly state, "Propeller rotating too fast", again with instructions to replace the propeller blades identified by the beeping ESC.

In particular the rear prop blades are prone to deformation when stored folded crossed laterally. The prop deformation (twist) reduces their lift capability thereby forcing the motors to spin faster to generate the required lift. Eventually the rear motors are incapable of spinning any faster and can't maintain the required tail-high nose-down pitch attitude in forward flight,

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I understood to be the cause of "Uncommanded Descents". The firmware defect was that the flight controller prioritized the commanded pitch angle rather than altitude hold. Full forward control stick commanded the flight controller to hold a certain nose-down pitch angle to make the aircraft fly forward. If the rear motors were incapable of providing the required lift to achieve that pitch angle, the flight controller responded by decreasing the front motor speeds, thereby maintaining the correct pitch angle. But, with the rear motors already struggling, and the front motors now commanded to spin slower, despite holding the required pitch angle for forward flight the overall lift was now insufficient to hold altitude.

Feeding in more throttle would not stop the gradual descent. If the aircraft was over land or snow, it might just bounce off the ground. That may correct the pitch angle back to level allowing the aircraft to then go back to flying "normally" until the same conditions are eventually repeated. But if the aircraft descends into a lake, well that's terminal.

If you ever do encounter such a situation, others have noted that merely halting forward flight, even pulling full reverse stick, can stop the uncommanded descent and save your drone.

If they are limited to water... then it deserves being looked into, as well as any uncommitted action by a drone. When I see so much consistency in these reports, I believe there maybe something to look into here.
Actually, there has been an enormous amount of inconsistency in these reports. There is so much misinformation out there, that it's difficult to get any accurate diagnosis.

I don't know if the firmware was ever actually "fixed", beyond introducing ever more dire error warning messages. You'll find hundreds of forum posts from people insisting the newly introduced Motor Speed Error warning in firmware v1.0.5 is itself a firmware bug. They had never seen this warning before, it only appeared after they upgraded to v1.0.5. Some even recommended the "cure" of downgrading to a previous firmware version to make the annoying warning go away. Brilliant.

In any case, the uncommanded descent has nothing to do with the downward facing sensors and is not caused by flying over water. Take care of your propeller blades. If you suspect any issue with the blades, do the hover test and plot motor speeds to see what's really happening.
mavicpilots.com/threads/motor-speed-error-mavic-mini.86130/page-13#post-1038918

That said, the downward sensors can be confused by water, but they will not drive the drone down into the water. The vision sensor camera fixes on any patterned surface detail to very accurately hold position in a hover. If the surface is blank with no detectable pattern, or it's just too dark, then that sensor won't work. Or, if the detected pattern is moving, like waves or ripples on the surface of water, the sensor will follow those. Try hovering over a patterned rug and dragging the rug away. The drone will follow.

The barometric altimeter is usually quite accurate, but is affected by changing air temperature and local air pressure. The infrared height sensors (when within range) bounce a signal off the surface to accurately measure altitude. If anything gets within (~1m?) of the bottom of the drone, the sensor actually causes the drone to rise up. Hold your hand under it and you'll see. It'll never cause the drone to descend. To force it to land you need to hold full down throttle.
 
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And keep in mind that on some drones such as the MA2, there are no sideways obstacle detectors. That's how I crashed mine once.
Sideways obstacle detectors are unrelated to the alleged over-water issues, but the only Mavic with lateral sensors is the Mavic 2 and they don't work in normal flight mode.
They really aren't much use at all.
From the manual:
The Lateral Vision Systems are only available in ActiveTrack 2.0 and Tripod Mode, as well as QuickShots sub-modes of Circle, Helix, and Boomerang (when using firmware v01.00.01.00 or above).
 
Living near the coast of Florida, 50 % of all my flights are over water. I'd even hover 4 feet above or fly at high speeds at about 10ft above water. Never, have I had an issue flying over water. No strange behavior has ever occurred.
The missing word in that paragraph is “YET”.
 
From the many tests we have done landing on the water, the Mini lands the fastest with very little fight , and I think that adds to how many end up in the water.

All the other drones put up a struggle before we can force it to land.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain and Land on the Water.
 
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