Part 107 gray area?

[Jeffro15]

I spend most of my flying over the ocean. Mostly for profit, but I also work with a local university. If I'm doing marine surveys, but really enjoy doing it, does this constitute a part 107 flight?
I am a part 107 pilot, but it affects my insurance.

 

[Thomas B]

I spend most of my flying over the ocean. Mostly for profit, but I also work with a local university. If I'm doing marine surveys, but really enjoy doing it, does this constitute a part 107 flight?

If you do it for the university, yes
If for any compensation, yes
You need a 107 certification.. Enjoying your job has nothing to do with it unfortunately.

 

[Jeffro15]

If you do it for the university, yes
If for any compensation, yes
You need a 107 certification.. Enjoying your job has nothing to do with it unfortunately.

I take no compensation.

 

[Thomas B]

I take no compensation.

Doesn’t matter as you state it... doing something for someone else.

I spend most of my flying over the ocean. Mostly for profit, but I also work with a local university. If I'm doing marine surveys, but really enjoy doing it, does this constitute a part 107 flight?
I am a part 107 pilot, but it affects my insurance.

Most folks enjoy their job.... if you are providing service, info, etc., especially as part of your work for a university.... yes it is 107z

 

[Jeffro15]

Doesn’t matter as you state it... doing something for someone else.

Most folks enjoy their job.... if you are providing service, info, etc., especially as part of your work for a university.... yes it is 107z

Maybe I didn't say that as well as I could have. I report anything I see to them and follow up if requested. I grew up on and in the ocean, and have spent half my life on it.

 

[Thomas B]

Maybe I didn't say that as well as I could have. I report anything I see to them and follow up if requested. I grew up on and in the ocean, and have spent half my life on it.

That requires a 107 to be legal. Compensation is not the issue.

 

[Meta4]

Maybe I didn't say that as well as I could have. I report anything I see to them and follow up if requested. I grew up on and in the ocean, and have spent half my life on it.

If you are flying for your own flying pleasure, that's on you.
If you are flying for the uni or someone else, that's 107 territory.

You've sprinkled enough uncertainty in the thread that there's likely to be a deluge of hardliners piling on to tell you that you need Part 107.
It never fails.

 

[Jeffro15]

If you are flying for your own flying pleasure, that's on you.
If you are flying for the uni or someone else, that's 107 territory.

You've sprinkled enough uncertainty in the thread that there's likely to be a deluge of hardliners piling on to tell you that you need Part 107.
It never fails.

Like I said, I am a 107 pilot , but this is flying for my own enjoyment while at the same time providing a service. Or maybe I should have said that the other way around, providing a service while having fun.

 

[Tony McDrone]

If you are providing a service then you can’t be flying for enjoyment, and visa versa. They cannot happen simultaneously.

I understand the need to keep your insurance rates low, but if you’re providing a service to the university, shouldn’t that cost be passed along to them?

 

[Vic Moss]

Yes, 100% 107 required.

Your first scenario is not 107, "I report anything I see to them", may not be a 107 flight. If you're out flying for recreation, and just happen to see something, it's not a 107 flight.

However, the second scenario, "... and follow up if requested" most definitely is a 107 flight. No question.

The original intent of the flight is the determining factor.

This article should answer any questions. I wrote it exactly for situations like this.

Hobby v. 107: Unscrambled

Why does it seem so difficult for some people to understand the very marked difference between the FAA’s “hobby” rules and “commercial”…

medium.com

 

[Kyle76]

if you are flying over the ocean strictly for pleasure; that is, you would be out there flying for fun regardless of any relationship with the university and simply report if and when you see something unusual, then IMO, you’re in a gray area. If the time, date and location that you fly are in any way influenced by trying to see something to report (intentionally “surveying” a particular area), then IMO, you’re in 107 territory. I think how often you actually end up reporting something could likely come into play. Once in a blue moon and you’re flying where you’d be flying anyway, and I think your argument is stronger.

 

[Howard70]

This article should answer any questions. I wrote it exactly for situations like this.

Hobby v. 107: Unscrambled

Why does it seem so difficult for some people to understand the very marked difference between the FAA’s “hobby” rules and “commercial”…

medium.com

Vic: I just read your article - a great piece written compactly and clearly. For the record I must say that your paragraph:

“It seems human nature wants to default to confusion rather than to understanding. We want everything made simple for us, yet try to find loopholes when we finally get the simplicity we want.”

has to be one of the most insightful things I’ve read in a long time. Were I still teaching at university I’d include it in the assignments section of very course syllabus.

Howard Snell

 

[Jet skier]

The definition that I have heard coming from the FAA is that if any flying is done that could be in furtherance have any monetary value than it is part 107

 

[BrokenAero]

An FAA official stated in a recent FAA webinar that even if you send your drone up to see if the gutters on your house need cleaning. - it’s Part 107, you’re a Commercial Pilot now.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Like I said, I am a 107 pilot , but this is flying for my own enjoyment while at the same time providing a service. Or maybe I should have said that the other way around, providing a service while having fun.

It does not matter which way you say it. it does not matter if you do it for compensation or not. Your intent at the time of the flight is to survey and come up with findings. You are also doing this with the intent of reporting these findings to the university. There is no gray area here. This is absolutely a commercial flight.

 

[Drone-Retriever]

Folks it is simple. If "anyone" receives "value" from a drone flight the FAA 107 is required. The crapshoot is would the FAA consider your actions as providing value.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Folks it is simple. If "anyone" receives "value" from a drone flight the FAA 107 is required. The crapshoot is would the FAA consider your actions as providing value.

Sorry but you are not correct here at all. The exception for recreational flights has NOTHING to do with value. Nothing at all.

Just one very simple example that I can give you. If you decide to film an event for a non-profit organization with the intent of giving it to them at NO COST, then it is a Part 107 flight. You receive no value in this example but it is still a Part 107 flight because you are doing it for someone else.

 

[Jeffro15]

Yes, 100% 107 required.

Your first scenario is not 107, "I report anything I see to them", may not be a 107 flight. If you're out flying for recreation, and just happen to see something, it's not a 107 flight.

However, the second scenario, "... and follow up if requested" most definitely is a 107 flight. No question.

The original intent of the flight is the determining factor.

This article should answer any questions. I wrote it exactly for situations like this.

Hobby v. 107: Unscrambled

Why does it seem so difficult for some people to understand the very marked difference between the FAA’s “hobby” rules and “commercial”…

medium.com

Thanks Vic. Your article is the most concise explanation I've seen yet.

 

[Vic Moss]

The definition that I have heard coming from the FAA is that if any flying is done that could be in furtherance have any monetary value than it is part 107

That is no longer relevant. Everything is 107 be default unless it's flown strictly for recreation.

 

[Vic Moss]

Folks it is simple. If "anyone" receives "value" from a drone flight the FAA 107 is required. The crapshoot is would the FAA consider your actions as providing value.

No, please read my article linked above.