Penalties and liabilities for flying small commercial jobs w/o Part 107 license?

[pelagic_one]

Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Yes, since you’re flying for business. Here’s a User Identification Tool from the FAA: User Identification Tool

 

[WDKZoom]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Now there is a question I’d like to the answer too though I would suspect that just because you can bring your own hammer to put down your “for sale” sign, if it flies the FAA is going to be involved.

WDK

 

[dirkclod]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Yes

 

[ajkm]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Yes.

 

[Bob4131]

Practical answer:
Unless you are doing something ridiculous like flying in NYC repeatly after being warned, you currently do not have to worry too much about the FAA fines. Local LE like the guy in Louisiana is a different story..... However if there is an incident and there is damage or injury, then liability becomes a big issue. If you are flying commerically without a 107 - no insurance covers you. You may be sued and lose your house.
I had my drone attacked by a hawk/eagle and it dropped 150 - 200 ft. My drone was at 350 ft and over forest, so everything turned out fine, but it reminded me that anything can happen. I would not recommend flying commerically without a 107. It is a very low probability but something could happen that could be very expensive.
Another concerning time, I was flying in public and a 3 year old came running up and tried to catch my drone. It was >10 ft AGL but the parent was encouraging him to try to catch it. After a few minutes of this, I hand caught instead of using the landing pad. The parent was upset at me for "ruining his kid's fun". I apologized and moved on.... My point is bad things can happen.

 

[raymacke]

OK, questions.

Situation #1 - I am not a 107 pilot. I am not a realtor. I own my home but decide to sell it myself. I take a photo with my drone and use it in a For Sale advertisement. Is that a violation?

Situation #2 - I am not a 107 pilot. I am not a realtor. My mother is selling her home herself - no realtor. I take a photo with my drone and give it to her to use it in a For Sale advertisement. Is that a violation?

 

[2Mavics4AManiac]

OK, questions.

Situation #1 - I am not a 107 pilot. I am not a realtor. I own my home but decide to sell it myself. I take a photo with my drone and use it in a For Sale advertisement. Is that a violation?

Situation #2 - I am not a 107 pilot. I am not a realtor. My mother is selling her home herself - no realtor. I take a photo with my drone and give it to her to use it in a For Sale advertisement. Is that a violation?

Not a lawyer or expert by any means but from what my understanding is, you flew in order to facilitate the sale, so it would be in furtherance of a "business" and subject to part 107

IE you were not taking the pictures because you like to look at them (hobbyist pursuit), you took the pictures for economic benefit either to you or someone/something else.

 

[Bob4131]

Not a lawyer or expert by any means but from what my understanding is, you flew in order to facilitate the sale, so it would be in furtherance of a "business" and subject to part 107

IE you were not taking the pictures because you like to look at them (hobbyist pursuit), you took the pictures for economic benefit either to you or someone/something else.

Also not a lawyer, but I agree with 2Mavics4AManic. Now if you took a picture of your neighbor's house, gave them a copy because they were a friend and 3 years latter they give it to a realtor - you are in the clear. When you were flying and taking the picture it was as a hobby and you had no intent to have anyone use it commercially. But you are flying with the intent to use it commercially- for that you need a 107.

 

[NLOL]

Personally, I think, generally, not having insurance is usually a small risk. It is insurance, not having a 107 license that protects you from liability losses.

I've had USCG and other govt certifications. The issue is that if someone feels you are infringing on their business, or privacy, or is just wound too tight they can report you to the relevant agency. The regulations are remarkably strict. The penalty for a hobbyist, doing someone a small favor, for a first time violation is likely going to be just a warning. However, judges in these matters are usually administrative and there is a risk there.

Personally, if someone I knew asked the favor - perhaps to show them how to do it - I think your risk is very small - one I'd not worry about in my life. However, the well known YMMV disclaimer always applies.

 

[Montana]

Sold three houses and have taken my own pictures. No 107 here. I’ve helped many friends sell theirs.

 

[sar104]

Sold three houses and have taken my own pictures. No 107 here. I’ve helped many friends sell theirs.

Are you looking for congratulations or just encouraging others to break the law too?

 

[Mavic Mac]

I was speaking with a real estate agent yesterday at an open house and got talking about aerial photography. She said there is a guy in their office that flies a drone for the pictures. Asked her if he was Part 107 certified and she said no. Explained the scenario that could happen. She doesn't want to take a chance and will never use him - hopefully I may get future work

This was a post by @Fred Garvin (not his personal message)in Commercial Drone Pilots

 

[Montana]

Are you looking for congratulations or just encouraging others to break the law too?

Congratulations will suffice.

 

[sar104]

Congratulations will suffice.

Willfully breaking the law and then bragging about it isn't going to get you any.

 

[Maviac]

OK, questions.

Situation #1 - I am not a 107 pilot. I am not a realtor. I own my home but decide to sell it myself. I take a photo with my drone and use it in a For Sale advertisement. Is that a violation?

Situation #2 - I am not a 107 pilot. I am not a realtor. My mother is selling her home herself - no realtor. I take a photo with my drone and give it to her to use it in a For Sale advertisement. Is that a violation?

I am a lawyer and the answer is yes on both. In fact, as a lawyer I use my drone for work regularly, and for others, including my dad, but declined until I got my 107.

Now, on the second hypothetical theoretically if it was a picture you’d taken for fun before you knew she needed to sell it... you have a decent argument.

 

[vindibona1]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

I know this is my thread, starting out with me having no knowledge, but the forum folks have got me pointed in the right direction. With my limited knowledge I would say that legally you would be out of bounds using your drone on your commercial real estate projects, I presume unless you were the owner of said properties, which would create shades of gray. You are no longer using it for recreational purposes. Any remuneration, direct or indirect is considered non-recreational. Practically, there may or may not be much risk involved. One of the elements of risk for most of us is the issue of civil liability. Do you have umbrella liability insurance, personal or professional? However, in the event of a claim, would the insurance company pay off if you were using it commerically without proper licensure? Moreover, if your drone does more than $500 damage, not including the drone itself, you are obligated to report the incident to the FAA. Perhaps they might just file the report, but maybe investigate further. I'm not sure which questions they might ask on a report form. Being a realtor you are in a different position that me, eventually wanting to seek work from realtors. I've started studying for my Part 107 license and will test for it before doing commerical work. I know, from running a business for 30 years that it only takes one small slip-up to ruin years of hard work. JMO

 

[dougiefresh27]

As a disclaimer I am not advocating doing anything that is illegal, but my curiosity leads me ponder some things. In fact I've registered with the FAA because I know my MM will have lights and other accessories attached.

Right now Part 107 testing seems to be at a standstill and the FAA has granted extensions on Part 107 licenses that are due to expire and need retesting. Obviously they are not doing anything (I don't think) for any pilots ready to take the test- but can't because of the COVID shut-down. While I'd like to take the test as soon as I am ready, I'm not going to start doing any work for money until licensed. As a brand new pilot, but long time professional commercial photographer with contacts I could get work and have already turned down work (for many reasons, including legality). I have to suspect there are a lot guys doing small jobs without a Part 107.

So just wondering, what are the penalties and potential liabilities for those operating unlicensed? Have many people been prosecuted for taking work without a license? Again, I'm just wondering. In some ways the sense of the strict requirement is incongruent with certain situations. For example, it's perfectly legal for me to take an aerial portrait of my family in our front yard, but if I were to do the same for a neighbor, who in return gave me a 5th of Jack Daniels I'd be outside the law. Flying is flying. Why aren't there shades of gray and how many (of you?) are "operating in the shadows"?

'Splain it to me, Lucy.

I think by the letter of the law that would be not legal. But realistically, if I drank, ya, I'd probably do it. Drink it together, then it is just a shared lunch. But I thought the FAA has made some adjustments for those that need to update their part 107. Basically giving them extensions and so on. I have a testing center in my town but it is still on lock down so I will be travelling 100 miles to test. The main thing is if you advertise it and things are trackable and so on. Fly, have fun and have one on me.

 

[dougiefresh27]

I am a lawyer and the answer is yes on both. In fact, as a lawyer I use my drone for work regularly, and for others, including my dad, but declined until I got my 107.

Now, on the second hypothetical theoretically if it was a picture you’d taken for fun before you knew she needed to sell it... you have a decent argument.

100% agree

 

[BigAl07]

I am a lawyer and the answer is yes on both. In fact, as a lawyer I use my drone for work regularly, and for others, including my dad, but declined until I got my 107.

Now, on the second hypothetical theoretically if it was a picture you’d taken for fun before you knew she needed to sell it... you have a decent argument.

Very well stated.

What's important to understand is the INTENT of the FLIGHT at the TIME of the FLIGHT!!

If you're flying purely as a hobbyist and fully within the protective bubble afforded by Hobby/Recreational you are golden. What you do later on with the DATA you collected does not matter to the FAA. They aren't in the DATA business. They are only concerned with WHY (Intent) your'e flying and HOW (Rules & Safety) you're flying. You can legally sell DATA acquired during a hobby flight so long as it was genuinely a HOBBY flight. For instance John Boy can be flying for fun and capture a picture of a storm, sunset, rainbow and then later someone wants to BUY that picture. SELL IT because it was created during a HOBBY flight and with pure intentions. Now if you launch with the intent to capture something to sell/share/donate you've pierced your own protective bubble and liable for all aspects of Part 107.

 

[BigAl07]

Sold three houses and have taken my own pictures. No 107 here. I’ve helped many friends sell theirs.

You've violated Part 107 at least THREE times. No congratulations will be given for such poor actions and boasting about them. It's just a shame your MLS doesn't require the proper credentials to post Aerial Imagery.

Careful what you do and say online.... it has come back to haunt others many times over.