Penalties and liabilities for flying small commercial jobs w/o Part 107 license?

[BigAl07]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

You are a Realtor and you make such a statement? Code of Ethics ring a bell?

The NAR has been very vocal about UAS use in Real Estate since 2014 IIRC. There was a push (ever so slight unfortunately) back in 2016 to make it mandatory that the MLS have the RPIC credentials on file before using the images. Unfortunately that didn't get any traction and the NAR abandoned it. Fortunately the MLS here in my area DOES require credentials to be on file and CURRENT.

Here's a link that might help shed some light:

Using Drones for Real Estate: Benefits, Use Cases and ROI

Using drones for real estate is quickly becoming the industry’s new normal. Learn about the major benefits of drones in real estate, use cases, and ROI.

www.dartdrones.com

I'm always baffled at Realtors who think it's ok to use a drone Commercially w/o credentials but get very bent out of shape if they think someone is trying sell a house for someone w/o the proper credentials.

 

[vindibona1]

You've violated Part 107 at least THREE times. No congratulations will be given for such poor actions and boasting about them. It's just a shame your MLS doesn't require the proper credentials to post Aerial Imagery.

Careful what you do and say online.... it has come back to haunt others many times over.

We live in crazy, crazy world... often a world of gross over-reaction. I was researching local ordinances regarding drone flight in nearby burbs, particularl in the City of Chicago and I am amazed at, with a population of 4 Million people, only a handful of drone nuisances are cited that provoked an ordinance. As I read other nearby towns, there were no stated occurances that I could find or were cited, yet the city councils, in their infinite wisdom decided to ban drones (which the state largely over-ruled).

My point is, that if you're going to do something stupid or illegal you don't want the morons who get elected (because they can't get good jobs elsewhere, of just love the power) to get the notion that they need to do something that doesn't really need doing. So don't give them any ideas that can hurt the rest of us for no good reason. Total ban on non-licensed commercial application is over-kill enough. They come up with enough hare-brained schemes without any encouragement.

 

[sar104]

We live in crazy, crazy world... often a world of gross over-reaction. I was researching local ordinances regarding drone flight in nearby burbs, particularl in the City of Chicago and I am amazed at, with a population of 4 Million people, only a handful of drone nuisances are cited that provoked an ordinance. As I read other nearby towns, there were no stated occurances that I could find or were cited, yet the city councils, in their infinite wisdom decided to ban drones (which the state largely over-ruled).

My point is, that if you're going to do something stupid or illegal you don't want the morons who get elected (because they can't get good jobs elsewhere, of just love the power) to get the notion that they need to do something that doesn't really need doing. So don't give them any ideas that can hurt the rest of us for no good reason. Total ban on non-licensed commercial application is over-kill enough. They come up with enough hare-brained schemes without any encouragement.

I'm curious about your first example. In your opinion, how many occurrences of a specific nuisance should be necessary before an ordinance is appropriate to prevent it?

 

[iaincaradoc]

Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Yes.

 

[Props Up]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

You absolutely need a license. If the flight is for a commercial purpose, the Pilot In Command must be Part 107 certified. However, there is an alternate option: If you have a friend who is Part 107 certified, then you can fly your drone under his/her supervision. Your friend will act as the Pilot In Command, and you will be the UAS Operator. In such event, you don't need to be Part 107 certified.

 

[BigAl07]

You absolutely need a license. If the flight is for a commercial purpose, the Pilot In Command must be Part 107 certified. However, there is an alternate option: If you have a friend who is Part 107 certified, then you can fly your drone under his/her supervision. Your friend will act as the Pilot In Command, and you will be the UAS Operator. In such event, you don't need to be Part 107 certified.

Correct but the Part 107 has to be co-located so that they can, if needed, take over control of the aircraft. Very important details to stay within the regulations.

 

[Props Up]

Correct but the Part 107 has to be co-located so that they can, if needed, take over control of the aircraft. Very important details to stay within the regulations.

Absolutely correct. And one more detail I didn't mention in my original response: If something goes wrong, the PIC will be liable, so it's questionable if someone will be willing to take on such responsibility.

 

[Maviac]

You've violated Part 107 at least THREE times. No congratulations will be given for such poor actions and boasting about them. It's just a shame your MLS doesn't require the proper credentials to post Aerial Imagery.

Careful what you do and say online.... it has come back to haunt others many times over.

One of my good friends is a roofer. He bought an M2P and uses it to post pics and videos on his website and Facebook regularly. I know he doesn’t have his Part 107 cert and I’ve texted and emailed him a couple of times (“hey, man, saw you got a Mavic. Let’s go flying together sometime! By the way, I’ve got a Part 107 certificate and can help you out with that to make sure you’re doing everything legally. Call me!”) (this is a guy who regularly texts me for free legal advice, and we’re friends, so that’s fine). No response (I did run into him the other day but we were with our kids so I didn’t bring it up). He’s still posting videos of his jobs. I don’t want to rat out my friend to the FAA, but what would you do? (I‘m not directing this to BigAl but really to the community).

 

[BigAl07]

One of my good friends is a roofer. He bought an M2P and uses it to post pics and videos on his website and Facebook regularly. I know he doesn’t have his Part 107 cert and I’ve texted and emailed him a couple of times (“hey, man, saw you got a Mavic. Let’s go flying together sometime! By the way, I’ve got a Part 107 certificate and can help you out with that to make sure you’re doing everything legally. Call me!”) (this is a guy who regularly texts me for free legal advice, and we’re friends, so that’s fine). No response (I did run into him the other day but we were with our kids so I didn’t bring it up). He’s still posting videos of his jobs. I don’t want to rat out my friend to the FAA, but what would you do? (I‘m not directing this to BigAl but really to the community).

Well, I'd handle it like this (and have done so as well):

• 1) Try to educate him on what he's doing wrong. (as you're trying).
• 2) Send him some links to the FAA and how it's illegal and unethical to be doing what he's doing.
• 3) If he continues I'd make the call (it's an easy only form submission) to the FAA. The FAA has local Safety Representatives (I have this designation on my business cards so I'm not talking out of turn here) who will make contact and attempt to "Educate" and "Document". If it continues the next level of interaction isn't nearly as friendly and can result in fines and/or remedial education (which I LOVE).

I realize he is your friend but by his blatant disregard for the rules and regulations is directly going against our industry as a whole and this puts all of us at risk.

I'm probably no the best person to ask this question of since I am heavily affiliated with the FAA.

And for clarity, I have also had someone "Drop the Dime" on me. I got "that call" (back in 2016 IIRC) and thought it was a PRANK. It was very much the real deal but I had all the correct answers (Section 333 #'s, pilots license etc) and it was a done issue.

 

[Chip]

I'm curious about your first example. In your opinion, how many occurrences of a specific nuisance should be necessary before an ordinance is appropriate to prevent it?

I would answer this way: the process of drafting and enacting an ordinance may start with just one complaint of a perceived nuisance from one person. The process is in theory supposed to involve rational fact finding with citizen input sufficient to prove a nuisance exists and that proposed ordinance is rational way to resolve or mitigate it. Due process does not require perfection but does require rational fact finding and fair opportunity for community input.

 

[sar104]

I would answer this way: the process of drafting and enacting an ordinance may start with just one complaint of a perceived nuisance from one person. The process is in theory supposed to involve rational fact finding with citizen input sufficient to prove a nuisance exists and that proposed ordinance is rational way to resolve or mitigate it. Due process does not require perfection but does require rational fact finding and fair opportunity for community input.

Sure, but those are different considerations. And even local laws can often reasonably be based on events and law-making in other jurisdictions - they don't have to reinvent the wheel each time.

 

[Maviac]

Well, I'd handle it like this (and have done so as well):

• 1) Try to educate him on what he's doing wrong. (as you're trying).
• 2) Send him some links to the FAA and how it's illegal and unethical to be doing what he's doing.
• 3) If he continues I'd make the call (it's an easy only form submission) to the FAA. The FAA has local Safety Representatives (I have this designation on my business cards so I'm not talking out of turn here) who will make contact and attempt to "Educate" and "Document". If it continues the next level of interaction isn't nearly as friendly and can result in fines and/or remedial education (which I LOVE).

I realize he is your friend but by his blatant disregard for the rules and regulations is directly going against our industry as a whole and this puts all of us at risk.

I'm probably no the best person to ask this question of since I am heavily affiliated with the FAA.

And for clarity, I have also had someone "Drop the Dime" on me. I got "that call" (back in 2016 IIRC) and thought it was a PRANK. It was very much the real deal but I had all the correct answers (Section 333 #'s, pilots license etc) and it was a done issue.

Thanks. I used to deal with the FAA a lot years ago when I was on the AOPA legal panel but it’s been a while so I wasn’t sure how friendly those “first level” encounters were these days. I’m going to reach out to him again and if no response will go from there.

 

[Jekjr]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

According to the understanding I have as a Part 107 UMA Pilot, you can be fined for each photo you use in advertising that is not taken bu a Part 107 License Holder as well as the person who shot the photos if he is not Part 107 Licensed. They can be in excess of $10K for the realtor and $1K per photo for the operator.

 

[Meta4]

you can be fined for each photo you use in advertising that is not taken bu a Part 107 License Holder as well as the person who shot the photos if he is not Part 107 Licensed. They can be in excess of $10K for the realtor and $1K per photo for the operator.

That's a common myth.
If there was any offense, it's the flying.
The FAA has no regulations about photos, buying, selling or using them.

 

[Jekjr]

That's a common myth.
If there was any offense, it's the flying.
The FAA has no regulations about photos, buying, selling or using them.

From the understanding we were given it is not the "photos" it is the flying without the Part 107 license and the hiring one to fly that does not have the 107 license. personally I think it is all over kill but there is a lot going on concerning this. I guess time will tell.

 

[NLOL]

Think about: if there are no witnesses to your flights; if you don't talk about, or answer questions about your flying or the source of the pictures (you have the right to remain silent). Then, if you violate any of these conditions, think about how enthusiastic some people are these days to see that rules are followed and rule breakers brought to justice, punished and made examples of. You'll have a much better understanding of your risks than any of us can provide.

 

[mladd]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Yes.

 

[Jekjr]

I am a real estate agent and have often paid for drone shots and I now own my own Mavic Mini. Do I need a license to shoot my own drone shots of a house I have for sale?

Yes you do.