Philadelphia vlogger Faces fines of $200,000

[jwilson]

It's hard to take anyone seriously when they start with the straw-man, false equivalency between General Aviation and this nimrod from Philly.

If you can't understand why that's such complete nonsense, that only reinforces the disconnect from reality. Precisely why we can't have nice things and why this hobby is doomed.

Who is the straw man? I asked before if anyone could post of one of his dangerous flights, and no one has. I think people who don't know drones are more scared of them. They see the blades spinning so fast. But they don't realize they have very little mass, so can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers. I was hit by my mavic pro in my leg and there was no abrasion at all.

 

[Torque]

Who is the straw man? I asked before if anyone could post of one of his dangerous flights, and no one has. I think people who don't know drones are more scared of them. They see the blades spinning so fast. But they don't realize they have very little mass, so can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers. I was hit by my mavic pro in my leg and there was no abrasion at all.

Toddler, 18 months, left blind in one eye by drone propeller

Doctors tried to save Oscar Webb's eye after the accident in Stourport-on-Severn, Worcestershire, seven weeks ago. He will need several operations before he can have a prosthetic one fitted.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Torque]

Who is the straw man? I asked before if anyone could post of one of his dangerous flights, and no one has. I think people who don't know drones are more scared of them. They see the blades spinning so fast. But they don't realize they have very little mass, so can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers. I was hit by my mavic pro in my leg and there was no abrasion at all.

lacerated by a drone propeller - Google Search

 

[Vic Moss]

Toddler, 18 months, left blind in one eye by drone propeller

Doctors tried to save Oscar Webb's eye after the accident in Stourport-on-Severn, Worcestershire, seven weeks ago. He will need several operations before he can have a prosthetic one fitted.

www.dailymail.co.uk

While this is a sad story, it's one example out of millions of flights. A statistic anomaly.

Also, this was 100% pilot error.

 

[Vic Moss]

Who is the straw man? I asked before if anyone could post of one of his dangerous flights, and no one has. I think people who don't know drones are more scared of them. They see the blades spinning so fast. But they don't realize they have very little mass, so can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers. I was hit by my mavic pro in my leg and there was no abrasion at all.

Why would we post links to this idiot's page? I'm sure as heck not going to give him any more views. If someone goes to his page and can't find a reckless or dangerous flight, then the issue is with the person viewing his videos. No sane person can look at his videos and NOT find recklessness in, at the very least, some of them. If they don't, then they likely shouldn't be allowed to fly either.

His attitude is reckless, as are many of his flights. But the main issue is his attitude. He is the textbook definition of anti-authority and machoism, two of the five FAA definitions of hazardous pilot attitudes.

 

[Torque]

They see the blades spinning so fast. But they don't realize they have very little mass, so can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers. I was hit by my mavic pro in my leg and there was no abrasion at all.

Well aware that this anomaly was due to user error. However to say that drone blades can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers simply is not factual.

 

[MARK (LI)]

I would say maintaining VLOS is the worst one. Then not flying over people. The altitude restrictions should be dependent on where you are, not fixed for every location. DJI has admitted this by allowing 1,000 meters in certain locations.

Look at these statistics:

How many general aviation deaths per year?


In the United States, general aviation accounts for 94% of fatal aviation accidents and in 2019 there were 1,302 general aviation accidents resulting in 414 fatalities. The fatal accident rate was 1.029 per 100,000 flight hours that year.

How many people were killed by drones?

It doesn't matter that DJI "admits" to that ...they don't make the rules .....you don't have to like the rules, you don't have to agree with them, but you do have to abide by them...guys who don't fly by the rules make it bad for everyone in this hobby by bringing the unnecessary attention that it does...just like this ...I don't know if anyone has actually been killed by a drone outside military use....but plenty have been injured and there has been property damage by irresponsible drone operations in civilian life.
Flying...whether a manned aircraft or an sUAS requires self discipline. The people who make these rules have more experience than you could imagine..and they do know better than we do.

 

[Aerophile]

So no, comparing the two is not a disconnect from reality, and most definitely NOT going to doom this hobby (or industry). As a matter of fact, it is used regularly to craft relaxed FAA regulation for sUAS use.

You misunderstood.

It's not comparing UAVs and general aviation aircraft that's ridiculous. It's comparing the OPERATORS of them.

By and large, that idiot from Philly is nothing like the overwhelming majority of general aviation pilots, who are (generalizing) pretty well trained, quite responsible, and have a lot of very strong incentives to behave: "skin in the game" (both financially and literally); it takes a huge investment of time, money and effort to get your license (so guys like the vlogger, penniless and living in his mom's basement, don't tend to make it), and if you screw up seriously, not only is everything you've invested at risk, but so is your life (not to mention the lives of your passengers, who are usually loved ones...NOT killing your friends and family makes you think twice about doing stupid things). That contrasts pretty dramatically with the general UAS population (not everyone, but a big enough percentage that the difference should be obvious to anyone) who can just wave the Visa card and in 24 hours, the replacement drone is on their doorstep.

Unfortunately, that knucklehead from Philly is hardly an outlier in the pool of UAS pilots. Plenty of folks even here (and this forum would appear to have one of the most responsible and trustworthy UAS enthusiast audiences, look elsewhere for more crazies), they excuse and even celebrate him and the kind of stuff he routinely does. Skin in the game? Reasons to be responsible, to take safety and the rules seriously? Fuggedaboudit. All you need to get your hands on a drone is your parents' credit card, and poof, you have dreams of becoming a YouTube celebrity if you can post enough outrageous clickbait.

This guy has thousands of admirers, among them many UAS operators. Doesn't that tell you something about how responsible UAS pilots are?

 

[DARKSeifer]

Well aware that this anomaly was due to user error. However to say that drone blades can only do small amounts of damage to things like fingers simply is not factual.

Well, it is. Fixed blades at max power like the ones on DIY FPVs can be dangerous, or the ones on the bigger drones like Inspire or Agra, but you can put a finger on a <900g foldable DJI drone, and you'll get a slight cut at most, depending on if the drone is just hovering or at max power.

Be careful with the eyes, though.

 

[Torque]

Well, it is. Fixed blades at max power like the ones on DIY FPVs can be dangerous, or the ones on the bigger drones like Inspire or Agra, but you can put a finger on a <900g foldable DJI drone, and you'll get a slight cut at most, depending on if the drone is just hovering or at max power.

Be careful with the eyes, though.

I don't see where this conversation was limited to sub 250 gram drones?
I've spent 40 years working in Trauma Centers, I may be a bit biased, but the fact is a drone's props can do damage.
Rare? yes, and serious damage even is even more rare. But nonetheless, that fact exists.
Certainly not a reason to ban drones, but definitely a something every pilot should be cognizant of. Any time I see a pilot make the claim that "those props won't hurt you" I feel I have a obligation to correct that belief.

 

[Cafguy]

The time for that was three years ago (see post #5).
It's gone far beyond that now.

Yep they gave Mikey all sorts of avenues to pay his fines and he simply "Ghosted" the FAA for years If he would have simply made some sort of effort he probably wouldn't have too pay anywhere near this! Lesson here-Don't ignore the Government.

 

[Dusty DJI]

I don't see where this conversation was limited to sub 250 gram drones?
I've spent 40 years working in Trauma Centers, I may be a bit biased, but the fact is a drone's props can do damage.
Rare? yes, and serious damage even is even more rare. But nonetheless, that fact exists.
Certainly not a reason to ban drones, but definitely a something every pilot should be cognizant of. Any time I see a pilot make the claim that "those props won't hurt you" I feel I have a obligation to correct that belief.

I, for one, do not want to feel the tips of my drone blades hit my finger tips. I did it once accidentally when I thought oa was active.. turns out it was too dark for the sensors to see. Full on tip of blades agains 3 fingers. Bleed for the longest time and bandaged for a few days. Not doing that experiment again

 

[Cafguy]

I stopped flying large Heli's after someone on our field was rushed to the emergency room with a rotor blade impaled through his leg. Even my little whoop blades could probably do some damage if it hits you in the eye. NOW A free style drone (even a tiny one) hurts when the blades hit you.

 

[mobilehomer]

Well, it is. Fixed blades at max power like the ones on DIY FPVs can be dangerous, or the ones on the bigger drones like Inspire or Agra, but you can put a finger on a <900g foldable DJI drone, and you'll get a slight cut at most, depending on if the drone is just hovering or at max power.

Be careful with the eyes, though.

Sorry, but wrong. I have the scars from my Air 2S where I reached incorrectly once. Cut pretty deep and took a while to stop the bleeding.

 

[Dusty DJI]

I stopped flying large Heli's after someone on our field was rushed to the emergency room with a rotor blade impaled through his leg. Even my little whoop blades could probably do some damage if it hits you in the eye. NOW A free style drone (even a tiny one) hurts when the blades hit you.

I tried to fly those before gyros were put on them. Immediately decided they were nothing but upside down lawnmowers without safety shrouds. Didn't fly them again until a few years ago when they added battery flight. Still takes a lot of stick skill to do what some do with them. I'm lucky to just hover and do a figure 8

 

[Vic Moss]

You misunderstood.

It's not comparing UAVs and general aviation aircraft that's ridiculous. It's comparing the OPERATORS of them.

Sorry, I missed that.

By and large, that idiot from Philly is nothing like the overwhelming majority of general aviation pilots, who are (generalizing) pretty well trained, quite responsible, and have a lot of very strong incentives to behave: "skin in the game" (both financially and literally); it takes a huge investment of time, money and effort to get your license (so guys like the vlogger, penniless and living in his mom's basement, don't tend to make it), and if you screw up seriously, not only is everything you've invested at risk, but so is your life (not to mention the lives of your passengers, who are usually loved ones...NOT killing your friends and family makes you think twice about doing stupid things). That contrasts pretty dramatically with the general UAS population (not everyone, but a big enough percentage that the difference should be obvious to anyone) who can just wave the Visa card and in 24 hours, the replacement drone is on their doorstep.

the "general UAS population" is very serious about safety and flying right. But it's the outliers, as you call them, that make our industry look bad.

Unfortunately, that knucklehead from Philly is hardly an outlier in the pool of UAS pilots. Plenty of folks even here (and this forum would appear to have one of the most responsible and trustworthy UAS enthusiast audiences, look elsewhere for more crazies), they excuse and even celebrate him and the kind of stuff he routinely does. Skin in the game? Reasons to be responsible, to take safety and the rules seriously? Fuggedaboudit. All you need to get your hands on a drone is your parents' credit card, and poof, you have dreams of becoming a YouTube celebrity if you can post enough outrageous clickbait.

This guy has thousands of admirers, among them many UAS operators. Doesn't that tell you something about how responsible UAS pilots are?

You've taken a very small portion of idiots who happen to own drones and used that to paint our entire industry and/or community. No, that small portion of drone owners tells us nothing about "how responsible UAS pilots are". It's a statistical anomaly.

We are closing on 1.1 million drone owners (both recreational and non-recreational) in the U.S. PDL has almost 12,000 subscribers. Let's say 50% of those subscribers support him (I doubt that is even low enough). That means at best, .5% support his actions.

That's telling us nothing about how responsible UAS pilots are". At best its telling us that .5% of drone owners in the U.S. are morons.

 

[Cafguy]

they excuse and even celebrate him and the kind of stuff he routinely does. Skin in the game? Reasons to be responsible, to take safety and the rules seriously?

I apologize- BUT mickeys actions are berated and pointed out as what not to do by almost everyone in the FPV community even our most influential video people are saying just how wrong some of his actions are.
PLEASE Do not throw the rest of us in with the people like the video poster. Also as far as the rich kids go you are correct about this and something should be done- BUT the solution involves putting all drone operators on AMA sponsored Flying fields. not everyone wants that. and that same kid could go to a hobby shop and buy a large scale Ducted Fan Then you have a Bomb flying around uncontrolled! RC Jets EXPLODE when they hit the ground!

NO Mickey DOES NOT HAVE THOUSANDS OF ADMIRERS LOL Just some watchers. I would also ask why it seems you dislike the FPV community? Do you think we are giving the hobby a bad rep? How? I would like to know and I welcome any suggestion you may have that will help us regain our respect within the Hobby.

 

[MARK (LI)]

- BUT the solution involves putting all drone operators on AMA sponsored Flying fields.

Except that AMA fields exclude Drones.....at least every one that I have seen here on Long Island....I know my comments about the AMA ruffle some feathers, but they offer nothing to the Drone hobby here on Long Island .....NOTHING..... If they are drone friendly in other parts of the country, I wish that it would catch on here

 

[Cafguy]

That's a shame .. here we have spaces for Helis and drones well away from the flight line.

 

[mavic3usa]

Except that AMA fields exclude Drones.....at least every one that I have seen here on Long Island....I know my comments about the AMA ruffle some feathers, but they offer nothing to the Drone hobby here on Long Island .....NOTHING..... If they are drone friendly in other parts of the country, I wish that it would catch on here

Agreed I won't even approach these guys with a drone unless you're looking for an uncomfortable experience on how someone can do everything in the power to not be helpful and discourage you. Around here, I will need to wait for a turnover in "management."