Power lines and the cosmic vortex?
- Thread starter A.O.
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dronerdave
Well-Known Member
They simply send standard power at 60hz (US) and communications over the same conductor. Lately I've seen them run fiber optics between phases but that's a different thing. I also doubt that (Edit 200kHz) would cause issues with flight communication between the quad and the controller. Our company uses a Matrice these days to do the inspections.
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Earthman
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I am certain that you should steer clear of high tension power lines (see why below). However, I suppose it depends on the voltage being carried by the wires, how shielded the electronics in the drone are if applicable, and how close to the wires or transformer you get.
I recently lost radio control of my Maule M7 RC fixed-wing aircraft when I accidentally flew within 30-ft of some high tension power lines (see attached photos). I didn’t realize it was over the power lines until it flipped over and spun nose down, hitting some of the power lines. It didn’t make it to the ground since it got hung up by the port snow ski on one of the lowest wires.
Although the ESC was beeping and the LED navigation lights were on, the motor and control surfaces were unresponsive, so I couldn’t gun the motor to fly it off the wire. I had to go home, returned with my 22-cal Marauder PCP air rifle, and shoot the ski apart to get the airplane off the wire. Fortunately, the wire was high enough that the airplane was able to complete the loop and land right-side-up, dead stick all by itself in the snow.
Surprisingly, there was no physical damage to the airframe other than one pellet hole in the port wing from a ricochet, but the receiver and all six servos were “fried.” The servos were frozen and their plastic housings were melted. The motor, ESC, and LED navigation lights survived.
I assume the loss of control was caused by the 60-Hz magnetic field around the wires and/or the broad-spectrum RF noise caused by current leakage from the wires into the air. The air was cold and damp and the wires audibly crackling, which is often the case for such wires in damp conditions. It would not surprise me if the random, broad-spectrum RF noise under such conditions messed with RC frequencies/control.
The damage to the aircraft’s electronics was most likely caused by high currents induced into the Maule’s long servo wires by the magnetic field(s) around the high tension wire(s), especially the wire the Maule was hanging from. I’m sure these induced currents got into the $130 receiver and fried it. The high current also heated the servo motor windings enough to melt all six $10 servos. I replaced the damaged receiver and servos and my Maule flies again.
Now I know firsthand why most RC aircraft manuals say to stay away from power lines.
Flying near power lines is risky.
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Yup, not the voltage but the current.
Voltage allows penitration through insulation and air, but that effect would be highly noticeable.
High current causes a magnetic field, which with AC, can induce an electrical current elsewhere. That's how transformers and inductive current monitors work.
Note though that lines at different phases would tend to cancel each other's field. That's why you can't clamp an induction amp meter to a power cord. The opposing fields cancel each other out.
If you're right on top of a line, like that RC plane, then only the field of that line would cause an effect with the other lines unable to cancel it out.
Voltage allows penitration through insulation and air, but that effect would be highly noticeable.
High current causes a magnetic field, which with AC, can induce an electrical current elsewhere. That's how transformers and inductive current monitors work.
Note though that lines at different phases would tend to cancel each other's field. That's why you can't clamp an induction amp meter to a power cord. The opposing fields cancel each other out.
If you're right on top of a line, like that RC plane, then only the field of that line would cause an effect with the other lines unable to cancel it out.
NG Wildman
Well-Known Member
If you are not a professional using a drone for inspection purposes, PLEASE stay away from electrical wires.
You don't belong there and it gives the hobby a bad name.
You don't belong there and it gives the hobby a bad name.
NG Wildman
Well-Known Member
It's called electrical theory because although there are certain properties attributed to electricity; it does what it wants.
Just another reason to stay clear.
dronerdave
Well-Known Member
I just feel there are several assumptions in this thread that are somewhat incorrect for one reason and correct for other reasons. Taking a chance of shooting your aircraft off any power line is a super bad idea as is flying around them. IIRC only one person discussed induction but wonder if anybody knows why transposition towers are put in place. Another post touched on the skin effect conductors have but didn't have a clue they also might transmit communications over the same lines. Nobody has discussed what the corona effect is or how weather effects lines and although I've personally been up close and have felt what some transmission voltages can do, I honestly do not know what it can do to our drones operation during flight. NG Wildman's posts are basically valid and if you're not qualified to be around them just stay clear of em.
Nosebump
Well-Known Member
As others have mentioned, RF interference should not present a problem. Cellphone towers though are a different story. Give those bad boys a wide latitude.
So what else electrical can affect a drone?
So what else electrical can affect a drone?
NG Wildman
Well-Known Member
I have worked for a power Gas and Electric company since 1998. I have worked distribution, sub-T and transmission lines.
I wrote a 3 paragraph reply initially and lost it as I hit a wrong key and was able to recover it. So I just wrote a couple replies. Corona effect, induction, commo carriers, NERC and CIP regulations as well as Homeland Security all great reasons to stay away. As well as conductor strikes (even momentarily) can compromise the structural integrity on the conductors ands cause outages, brown-outs or catastrophic failure including prolonged power outages expensive equipment repairs and even death. The video with the guy threading the high-line is driving me crazy, but I don't want to go off in this forum. BUT, as he flies over his position, his lookout seems to not be paying attention to where the drone is and it also shows an access point that is gated and locked. Assumably by the power company. I would venture a guess that he has no written consent to be in the right-of-way (ROW). Only the land owner and specified persons or companies are allowed to use ROWs. What bothers me here is the blatant disrespect or ignorance of the rules. And, this is one reason there has been great attention brought to this hobby. This is similar to the crotch rockets that are driven recklessly (by some) on the road, making non-riders think all motorcycles are going to do the same things as they do. People don't notice law-abiding actions as much as they notice things outside the law or regulations. These actions do a huge dis-service to the hobby.
But back to the original topic. Metal also has an effect on radio signals like the aluminum, steel or copper in the overhead lines just as the aluminum in the bimini top on my boat.
I guess I don't know if you are talking to me or not, but these particular power lines run through MY property so I DO belong there... just sayin..
dronerdave
Well-Known Member
Well yes and no. The power company has obtained a right of way through your property and there are specific approach distances to abide by. So you must still stay a specific distance from them and if something was to go wrong and you lost control and did damage that required the company who owns the line to make repairs or remove your aircraft, the cost might be an eye opener. You as the drone operator have the responsibility laid on your back if something goes wrong knowing that you are not authorized to be too close to a line. If folks want to roll the dice, well go for it. But I'd be reluctant to post a youtube video of in-close unauthorized flights around lines, especially transmission lines. Just me.
I have no desire to go play around by those wires, this thread was started just in case I needed to go near them to what effect would it have on my drone and that's it. I've plenty of other places to fly.
But its still my property...
NG Wildman
Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking about you, It was one of the videos as described. I'm not gonna call them out, but the video is there.
If power lines run through your property, then the property is obviously yours. I didn't think I saw you doing that.
But anyone flying through and doing barrel rolls around conductors is being foolish, dangerous and in some cases breaking the law; not to mention bringing negative publicity to the hobby...and I don't support that.
dronerdave
Well-Known Member
Yes and I understand that. You asked for advice and that is a good thing. Like the time I had the fire and police dept come around the corner and spot lighted me holding illegal fireworks I'd been shooting off on my property. The problem was I was on the fire department
Don't get caught.
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I don't know about any vortex... but sometimes they sneak up on you.
I was flying visually and just 20 feet to the side of the lines, maybe 100 ft to the south of the drone. ! thought I had flown over all of them. Didn't know I'd flown between them until I watched the vid. Diefinately not my intent and generally a bad idea. Depth perception seems to be a bit off when I've got my head tipped back as far is it will go.
I was flying visually and just 20 feet to the side of the lines, maybe 100 ft to the south of the drone. ! thought I had flown over all of them. Didn't know I'd flown between them until I watched the vid. Diefinately not my intent and generally a bad idea. Depth perception seems to be a bit off when I've got my head tipped back as far is it will go.
Yes. I was filming one ad at forest. Drone hovering near of powerline and suddenly app say "landing". I don't know why but it was 100% sure because powerline.
The cause could have been lots of other things.
You cannot make assumptions like that without confirming data.
The only way to be sure is to see what the recorded flight data shows.
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