Private Airport - Airspace Safety etc.

[Citizen Flier]

There are some locations I'd like to photograph as aerials, not in restricted airspace as indicated on Airmap. But there is a small private airport in nearby. It is not indicated in yellow on Airmap. I flew near there once previously & got an airport proximity prompt on the Smart Controller.

I tried contacting the airport today, but only got a voicemail. I don't believe there are any commercial flights, but I have seen small planes takeoff & land there.

What would be proper protocol for flying in the vicinity? Or is this simply a NFZ? I certainly don't want to endanger anyone.

 

[jmaeding]

The airport would not know what to tell you anyway. I spoke to a manned aircraft pilot (what do we call them now anyway?) and he mentioned something about 3 degrees landing angle. I forget what typical takeoff angle would be.
If you get reliable conservative info on that, you can calc how low a plane would be for typical landing and takeoff, and get an idea if they are in your 400' vert range for a location. Then watch for helicopters too.
Another thing is you can get a radio and listen to local frequency for airport. That is how other pilots know whose there. I've never done that yet though. That would be very educational.
Its class G, for Good luck.

 

[Citizen Flier]

There are 2 small bridges I would like to fly over -and I would not even fly at 100'. Neither bridge is in the takeoff or landing path of the airstrip. But The only thing I know about airports is how to buy an airline ticket, and that you typically can't fly drones within 5 miles. So I don't want to make an error due to my vast ignorance.

The only 2 scenic bridges for many miles just happen to be within a mile of this tiny airport. Guess I'm just lucky.

 

[jmaeding]

Ok, this is perfect because you care about safety. Its not hard to learn the common sense things to fly safely.
First, manned planes in the US, at least, must stay 500' AGL (above ground level). You are limited to 400'.
However, when they land or take off, they cross that limit.
I encourage you to learn to read your country's airspace charts. They are called Sectional charts in the US, and learning to read them is required by the Part 107 test "commercial" drone pilots must pass. The fact is, they are fun to learn and give you the info you need to have flying common sense. You will discover only certain airports have "controlled" airspace. The uncontrolled in US is class G. That uncontrolled airspace means "everyone look out for themselves, and manned pilots should talk on the radio to coordinate".
You cannot talk on the radio, so must just listen, and react real time.
The end result is you should be aware of how low planes typically go for your location, and listen.
If you do that, you will be flying more responsibly than most IMO.

 

[Citizen Flier]

Ok, this is perfect because you care about safety. Its not hard to learn the common sense things to fly safely.
First, manned planes in the US, at least, must stay 500' AGL (above ground level). You are limited to 400'.
However, when they land or take off, they cross that limit.
I encourage you to learn to read your country's airspace charts. They are called Sectional charts in the US, and learning to read them is required by the Part 107 test "commercial" drone pilots must pass. The fact is, they are fun to learn and give you the info you need to have flying common sense. You will discover only certain airports have "controlled" airspace. The uncontrolled in US is class G. That uncontrolled airspace means "everyone look out for themselves, and manned pilots should talk on the radio to coordinate".
You cannot talk on the radio, so must just listen, and react real time.
The end result is you should be aware of how low planes typically go for your location, and listen.
If you do that, you will be flying more responsibly than most IMO.

Thanks for that informative reply. My inner optimist says if I fly at less than 100', and am not near the approach zone, I should be OK. But my experience in life with the ever present X-Factor gives me pause, as perhaps some new pilot veers off course or whatever, or some other unimagined outcome. I'm guessing that anyone who answers the phone at this facility will err with caution and say STAY AWAY period.

 

[jeplane]

You already have good infos so far. So to recap and in general:

1- Avoid being on the extended centerline of the take-of path and landing.

2- The 3 degrees angle mentioned equals to 300ft/mile. So if you must be on the landing path, you will be in trouble being just a mile from the airport. At 2 miles, planes will be at 600', leaving you with a minimum of 200', which is not a lot. Better be at 3 miles away from the runway in this case.

3- If you do plan to be at just 100', then it shouldn't be an issue at all.

4- Class G airspace doesn't require notifications in the US by the way.

5- Helicopters do not follow the same patterns as airplanes or gliders. All bets are off on where they are coming from, and at what altitude, although they should be at 500' minimum until descending for landing.

6- Gliders do not follow the 3 degree angle path on landing. Their pattern tends to be much closer than airplanes.

7- Listening to a scanner is a good idea, if you know how to get the frequency for that airport, and know a modicum of phraseology.

Thank you for keeping the hobby safe and have fun!

 

[jmaeding]

They might, but then again you might get a cool person that appreciates your concern. Pilots tend to care and are not sloppy people in my experience. Just remember, aside from any FAA rules, you are liable for an accident like any other accident. I would encourage you to get your Part 107, if in the US. Or maybe just pay for the training courses (typically $150) online, and skip the real test.
Also watch youtube videos on flying as it will give you a feel for how manned pilots operate.
The glider ones are cool as they fly in places without towers many times and you hear how they talk and sort out priorities since they only get one landing approach.

 

[bumper]

"First, manned planes in the US, at least, must stay 500' AGL (above ground level)."

Not exactly. They must stay 500' above structures and people, except when landing or taking off. In densely populated areas, or open air assemblies, it's 1000' above. So if you're flying over the fields and forests etc, be aware that I can, with some exceptions, fly my plane there too, right down to ground level. It's up to you to see and avoid. I have that see and avoid other aircraft mandate as well, but the chances of me seeing your drone are very slim at any reasonable distance.

Also, below 10,000' the speed limit for manned aircraft is 250 knots (287 mph), though most small general aviation aircraft will be flying between 60 and 120 mph, redline on my glider is 168 mph, but normal operation is in the range of 50 to 120 mph - with engine off, it makes a neat swishing, whistling noise, sort of like a jet airplane with the engine off. But you won't hear the until it's close.

Your best bet is to listen for engine noise, but be aware that gliders fly ridges and low over mountains, often within a wingspan of the terrain.

 

[jmaeding]

awesome. The more real advice you give the better.
The "see" part is impossible on the drone end. They are invisible.
I just hope reality will prove most drones do not cause a real plane to crash. Birds are out there too though they have a preference for missing a plane. Its the wild west again.

 

[Camino Ken]

As an ex private pilot I though I could add a few tidbits to the already great information above.

Learn about aircraft traffic patterns. They are usually right hand or left hand traffic. Learn the different components of the pattern (downwind, base, final, etc). Get a sectional chart for your area. Free download from the FAA. Find the airport in question and get the pertinent info, primarily runway orientation, traffic pattern, and frequencies.

Pick up a cheap multi-band radio that can tune to the aviation band around 118 to 136Mhz. Two frequencies of interest are the CTAF and ATIS. CTAF is the frequency that the pilots in the vicinity of the airport talk to each other. If there is only one aircraft they will usually announce their position and intentions regularly.

Listen to the ATIS frequency to figure out what Is the active runway. It will be referenced as a 2 digit magnetic compass heading. It changes depending on prevailing wind direction. It may also have information if there are gliders or skydivers operating in the area.

You can use all of this information to determine where any aircraft are located in and around the airport.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[jmaeding]

Dang, good info. I have my 107 and kind of don't understand frequencies that well.
I see youtubes where ATC says to change to some channel, and can only assume they switch from general to specific frequencies in crowded areas. Any simplified info welcome, as the part 107 does a lot, but leaves us wondering on many day to day airport operations.
The skydiving is a perfect example. Thx for mentioning!

 

[sar104]

Dang, good info. I have my 107 and kind of don't understand frequencies that well.
I see youtubes where ATC says to change to some channel, and can only assume they switch from general to specific frequencies in crowded areas. Any simplified info welcome, as the part 107 does a lot, but leaves us wondering on many day to day airport operations.
The skydiving is a perfect example. Thx for mentioning!

If you want to read about how ATC operates then Wikipedia is not a bad place to start - the page on ATC is quite informative.

Small, non-towered airports use air-to-air communications to deconflict traffic on CTAF (Common traffic advisory frequency) which is published for each airport. Arriving and departing traffic broadcasts its position and intentions to give other traffic the opportunity to coordinate. That's the frequency to listen to when operating around such airports.

 

[Camino Ken]

I should also point out that some airports make their ATIS broadcasts available by phone. Call the airport to see if they do this.

 

[Fred Garvin]

You’re getting a lot of good, general advice here. All good to know. All good to use.

However, if you want an exact, definitive and detailed answer: Post the name and location of the airport.

Then the good folks here can check out a sectional, look it up on the UAS Facilities Map, and AirNav.com. Then you’ll get a specific, accurate answer to your question.

 

[Tommy85]

I have a small private airport about 2 miles away as the crow flys. few planes coming in from Purdue University learning to fly. Doing touch & goes.
Also, there is a skydive unit at the airport. I can see the Skydive plane take off. It goes way out then comes & makes turns over my farm till they are at 11,000 ft. when thy jump out. I have the frequency on my scanner 120.00 I can listen to all the planes. So I know where they are at & when the jumpers are out of the plane.

When they get close I land. I've hauled some of the skydivers back to the airport that didn't make it back & landed on my farm. we had lots of good conversations about skydiving & my drone which I only fly over my farm.
I have a good repore with the airport & the planes. Been offered a tandem jump. I tell them I'm almost 85 years old & when I go up in a plane I always come back down in it. I never jump out of a good plane.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Put a sign on your truck:

Skydiver Transport Service
Ride Back: $20
Walk off my Farm: $40

 

[lookout]

Dang, good info. I have my 107 and kind of don't understand frequencies that well.
I see youtubes where ATC says to change to some channel, and can only assume they switch from general to specific frequencies in crowded areas. Any simplified info welcome, as the part 107 does a lot, but leaves us wondering on many day to day airport operations.
The skydiving is a perfect example. Thx for mentioning!

ATC usually approves frequency changes enroute. They get handed off from one facility to another as airspace, radio reception and traffic separation vary.

 

[RkyMtnHigh]

I'm a retired air traffic control operations supervisor, and there's a lot of good information on this thread. I have a couple of things to add...if it's a private airstrip chances are there isn't an ATIS, and possibly not even CTAF if it's a single runway airstrip. When in doubt about the traffic just as a safety precaution stay away from the approach and departure ends. If you know the name of the airport, and 3-letter identifier, if there is one, then post it on here and I, as well as many others, can look up information for you. There are several facilities you can make a phone call to...the overlying approach control, center (ARTCC), flight service station (FSS) or Flight Standards District Office (FSDO), who could possibly help you out. There's a lot of resources out there, but to be honest, especially being in Class G airspace, as a controller and supervisor, you're on your own until you leave the Class G. Staying at or below 100' AGL I can't foresee any problems, especially with it being a private airstrip, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Citizen Flier]

I'm a retired air traffic control operations supervisor, and there's a lot of good information on this thread. I have a couple of things to add...if it's a private airstrip chances are there isn't an ATIS, and possibly not even CTAF if it's a single runway airstrip. When in doubt about the traffic just as a safety precaution stay away from the approach and departure ends. If you know the name of the airport, and 3-letter identifier, if there is one, then post it on here and I, as well as many others, can look up information for you. There are several facilities you can make a phone call to...the overlying approach control, center (ARTCC), flight service station (FSS) or Flight Standards District Office (FSDO), who could possibly help you out. There's a lot of resources out there, but to be honest, especially being in Class G airspace, as a controller and supervisor, you're on your own until you leave the Class G. Staying at or below 100' AGL I can't foresee any problems, especially with it being a private airstrip, but that's just my opinion.

Thanks for your informative reply, and those of so many others. It is San Rafael Airport, in San Rafael CA. Code is: CA35
It is a single runway operation. And yes, I doubt that I would fly more than 100', and would not be in line with direct approach/takeoff.

 

[RkyMtnHigh]

Thanks for your informative reply, and those of so many others. It is San Rafael Airport, in San Rafael CA. Code is: CA35
It is a single runway operation. And yes, I doubt that I would fly more than 100', and would not be in line with direct approach/takeoff.

Thanks for the info. So as I thought, there is no ATIS, which isn't a big deal. If you happen to get a scanner with air band capability, then you can tune in UNICOM on 122.7 and that way you would hear any aircraft inbound or getting ready to depart. That is the frequency that the aircraft will use to talk to each other and tell each other where they are. The airport falls under the control of Oakland Center for ATC, so you can give them a call at 510-745-3380. You can also contact Oakland Flight Service Station (FSS) and they can work on the permissions if you need any, and issue a NOTAM if required. The airport owner and operator's phone number is 415-472-7700.