Proposed UK registration cost - You can respond

zocalo · May 1, 2019

FoxhallGH said:
Ageed - and the other parties lobbying for the 'draconian' clamp-down on our rights to a leisure hobby, should be included in the 'users pay' equation ... It must be nice for the likes of the Airline Pilots Association to sit up on their high-horse and impose regulatory statutes on drone users, and also - insist that drone users pay for that regulation they have pushed to impose! Great! That doesn't seem like the Democracy I signed up to ...

Excellent point about the CAA turning to orgs like BALPA, airport operators, the prison service, and all the other "we want a no-drone zone!" groups for some of their funding. Too late for me as I've already submitted, but if anyone else hasn't submitted feedback to the consultation it might be worth suggesting it.

I suspect something along those lines just happened at the BFMA. There's a distinct sense of "WTF!? This was only meant to apply to *drones*!" in their response to members over the CAA's announcement that the proposed requirements would apply to all RC aircraft and their club membership wasn't going to be some kind of get out of jail free card. Still, the BFMA has a lot of members (many of whom also fly drones), so if they're opposed to the plans and feeding that displeasure back to the CAA then that works for both groups so quite happily I'll take it.

Drew1405 · May 7, 2019

What is the benefit to us of being on the register that we should pay this much?

zocalo · May 7, 2019

Drew1405 said:
What is the benefit to us of being on the register that we should pay this much?

Other than "not being liable for a fine of up to £1500 for failing to do so", still TBC. The consultation was specifically about the proposed fee with little to no mention of any other aspects of the changes to the law so who knows?

I did offer a few suggestions about incentivising the deal to encourage more people to register in my feedback, as did others here, but so far any thoughts the CAA might have on that have not been made public as far as I know.

Drew1405 · May 7, 2019

zocalo said:
Other than "not being liable for a fine of up to £1500 for failing to do so", still TBC. The consultation was specifically about the proposed fee with little to no mention of any other aspects of the changes to the law so who knows?

I did offer a few suggestions about incentivising the deal to encourage more people to register in my feedback, as did others here, but so far any thoughts the CAA might have on that have not been made public as far as I know.

I see.

To be honest I don't have an issue with being on an official register if it shows I'm doing things by the book and am an honest and careful flyer but it does seem to be a very steep price just to be on it. Maybe as a one time payment it'd be more reasonable. Clearly there is profit in this for them, this is not just covering costs of register maintenance.

Granted, its not a lot of money in general but for what you get (essentially nothing) it IS a lot.

Winfam · May 7, 2019

They are also using miss information as the projected uptake of 170,000 is based on the American and Irish systems that are far cheaper and more affordable rather than the £16.50 per year that is proposed here, meaning that there is little chance of them reaching this target, so by their reconing the price is only going to go up.

zocalo · May 7, 2019

Winfam said:
They are also using miss information as the projected uptake of 170,000 is based on the American and Irish systems that are far cheaper and more affordable rather than the £16.50 per year that is proposed here, meaning that there is little chance of them reaching this target, so by their reconing the price is only going to go up.

Oh, that part is hilarious. The CAA clearly has absolutely no idea how many drones or drone pilots there are in the UK as no one has ever really tried to track it until now. To make up for this knowledge gap they've "extrapolated" numbers from the ratio of registrants to the US and Irish systems as a fraction of their national populations, then split the difference. A statistically sound methodology it is not.

They'd have probably done better just to admit they don't know and avoid setting a totally useless KPI that the system will now no doubt be measured against. Of course, they'd then need to figure out some other way to justify the proposed costs and fees or come up with some other funding model, neither of which is likely to be much better given the lack of useful data.

Porky · May 7, 2019

I just can’t believe people are so uptight about paying the £16.50 for a hobby they enjoy, beats me.?? bet you all pay it though.

zocalo · May 7, 2019

Porky said:
I just can’t believe people are so uptight about paying the £16.50 for a hobby they enjoy, beats me.?? bet you all pay it though.

Sure (and I intend to pay as well), but some people have a very low bar for when their principles kick in. Also, don't forget that £16.50/year is based on little more than guesswork as to the number of people that own drones and will register. If the actual number is much lower and a whole bunch of those refuse to register for whatever reason, or don't even know they need to, then what do you think will happen to that price next year?

Porky · May 7, 2019

zocalo said:
Sure (and I intend to pay as well), but some people have a very low bar for when their principles kick in. Also, don't forget that £16.50/year is based on little more than guesswork as to the number of people that own drones and will register. If the actual number is much lower and a whole bunch of those refuse to register for whatever reason, or don't even know they need to, then what do you think will happen to that price next year?

The price will most definitely increase as time goes by but that’s just like everything else in today’s world. We just come to expect it and take it on the chin when it happens.

You have definitely done your homework on the figures and stats, you know more about that side than I but we’ve just got to move on and accept what’s happening.

I know people moan, I suppose that’s what makes the world go round but if they don’t like it stop flying drones, easy answer.

FoxhallGH · May 7, 2019

Porky said:
The price will most definitely increase as time goes by but that’s just like everything else in today’s world. We just come to expect it and take it on the chin when it happens.

You have definitely done your homework on the figures and stats, you know more about that side than I but we’ve just got to move on and accept what’s happening.

I know people moan, I suppose that’s what makes the world go round but if they don’t like it stop flying drones, easy answer.

I don't think the price on its own is the problem here @Porky [and like you, I'll end up paying whatever it will be!] - the Principal is the thing ... If Authorities like the CAA can impose a 'tax' (and that's what it is!), of this level, for no benefit to the users - then what's to stop e.g. your Council deciding that you need to pay them a tax to park your car on your driveway. A Government department imposing a tax for no benefit to those paying it should always be challenged ... I'm sure there's a basic human rights issue in there somewhere (if not, there should be).

FoxhallGH · May 7, 2019

Winfam said:
They are also using miss information as the projected uptake of 170,000 is based on the American and Irish systems that are far cheaper and more affordable rather than the £16.50 per year that is proposed here, meaning that there is little chance of them reaching this target, so by their reconing the price is only going to go up.

And don't forget, the CAA 'Operator' registration can't be done until you are 18 y.o. - but Ireland is 16, and USA is 13 years for FAA reg'. That must also affect the numbers too!

zocalo · May 7, 2019

FoxhallGH said:
And don't forget, the CAA 'Operator' registration can't be done until you are 18 y.o. - but Ireland is 16, and USA is 13 years for FAA reg'. That must also affect the numbers too!

As do any number of other demographics that would have a bearing on whether someone might want and be able to afford to buy and fly a drone. The CAA has basically plotted two slightly related numbers for a single (albeit significant) factor out of many on a graph, drawn a straight line between the two, then looked at the value on the line for the UK's current population.

It's the kind of example model people use to mock bad science/data analysis, only the CAA has actually done it for real:

Porky · May 8, 2019

FoxhallGH said:
I don't think the price on its own is the problem here @Porky [and like you, I'll end up paying whatever it will be!] - the Principal is the thing ... If Authorities like the CAA can impose a 'tax' (and that's what it is!), of this level, for no benefit to the users - then what's to stop e.g. your Council deciding that you need to pay them a tax to park your car on your driveway. A Government department imposing a tax for no benefit to those paying it should always be challenged ... I'm sure there's a basic human rights issue in there somewhere (if not, there should be).

I’m really surprised I’ve not had a “bashing” yet from other members on here about my views.... bet I will now?

zocalo · May 8, 2019

Porky said:
View attachment 71804 I’m really surprised I’ve not had a “bashing” yet from other members on here about my views.... bet I will now?

Nah, it's fine. I think most of us here are, if not on the same page, at least in the same chapter. In the main, while we might not be entirely happy about the proposals, if that's what it takes then we'll do it. Most of the discussion has been in the more generic sense of the RC aircraft community as a whole, suggestions for how the scheme could be improved and thus more likely to be successful, and the rather poor quality of justifications and reasoning used to come up with the £16.50 figure.