Question about 'visual line of sight'

[Gorlash]

We took our drone out again yesterday, and were flying over some feral lands near Newark, CA.
I noticed again, that once it gets about 700' away, I definitely have trouble seeing the drone; I end up choosing my route by looking at the camera image, and comparing with the terrain that I can see visually. I also carefully monitor his altitude, and keep the speeds real slow. There were a few very tall power poles out there, but nothing much else to form obstacles. That was working pretty well.

My question is, how should I be interpreting 'visual line of sight' ?? I can see the area where it is, there are no hills or anything between it and my line of sight, but I cannot actually visually detect the drone.
Does that still fit within 'visual line of sight' ??

I should probably actually ask the FAA this question, but this forum is much more accessible at this point!!

 

[RayKelly]

We took our drone out again yesterday, and were flying over some feral lands near Newark, CA.
I noticed again, that once it gets about 700' away, I definitely have trouble seeing the drone; I end up choosing my route by looking at the camera image, and comparing with the terrain that I can see visually. I also carefully monitor his altitude, and keep the speeds real slow. There were a few very tall power poles out there, but nothing much else to form obstacles. That was working pretty well.

My question is, how should I be interpreting 'visual line of sight' ?? I can see the area where it is, there are no hills or anything between it and my line of sight, but I cannot actually visually detect the drone.
Does that still fit within 'visual line of sight' ??

I should probably actually ask the FAA this question, but this forum is much more accessible at this point!!

Great question. VLOS is so important and so many pilots disregard it. I have lost sight a couple of times by accident. Thank God & DJI for RTH. The answers you get will be interesting. Fly safe. I'll be flying in CA next month.

 

[FoxhallGH]

This website seems to cover this issue very well ...

Section 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.

Section 107.31 limits how far an aircraft can fly from the remote pilot in command. The distance is NOT set in stone. The distance changes depending on multiple factors. To understand what affects the distances, we need to understand the regulation. Section 107.31 says: “(a) With vision that is...

jrupprechtlaw.com

 

[Gorlash]

This website seems to cover this issue very well ...

Section 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.

Section 107.31 limits how far an aircraft can fly from the remote pilot in command. The distance is NOT set in stone. The distance changes depending on multiple factors. To understand what affects the distances, we need to understand the regulation. Section 107.31 says: “(a) With vision that is...

jrupprechtlaw.com

Fantastic!! Thank you... bookmarked...

 

[W5CI]

VLOS is how far you can Visually see your Drone. IMHO

 

[BigAl07]

Being able to SEE the aircraft AND being able to determine attitude and orientation. It's not merely seeing a small speck in the sky.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Being able to SEE the aircraft AND being able to determine attitude and orientation. It's not merely seeing a small speck in the sky.

Yep, I too feel the reason is so you know exactly how your aircraft is placed, in case action is needed to avoid a low flying manned aircraft.
(Some say that VLOS is so anyone looking for a drone will know the operator is close enough to see it, yeah sure )

No, they shouldn't be mixing it up in same airspace, but it can happen with helicopters in particular, busy tourist spots, near hospitals, etc, and very rarely fixed wing fly low in some circumstances.
Being close enough to somewhat hear an approaching aircraft, and quickly act to bring your drone lower / land, is important.

Good strobes can help keep VLOS, but should not, in my opinion, be used to fly out to say beyond 500m or so normally.
Some say they can see their strobes for miles. During the day.
I think to look up from a screen and see your drone quickly (if orientated the right way) you can fairly readily pick up the market leading strobes at about a km or so, about 0.6 mile.

Me personally, I will fly up to 500m distance or so whenever near civilisation, over the ocean a little further if flying low and have ARCII strobe going . . . always stick to 400m altitude, I find this high enough.
I feel very comfortable flying FPV with device screen or now new goggles (I'm still getting used to).
In very remote areas, I'll fly a little less restricted in VLOS, as there is no chance of ever having something in my airspace when in the inland desert regions.

I've actually put several cases to a CASA rep here (heavily involved in drone rule policy) and he's said straight out to me that they aren't concerned about such matters, just where more urban regional airspace creates any sort of risk to other manned flights.

 

[JohnChap]

It's a bad regulation if the authority that writes it then says they aren't concerned in certain situations. Those situations should be included in the regulation, for example by qualifying with "in urban regions" or some such wording.

I too have been writing to CASA (the relevant authority in Australia), but I take issue at the VLOS regulation and several others and tell them very few fly VLOS. I certainly don't, I'm always looking at my screen, how else are you supposed to take photos? My max altitude is usually about 20 m, so no chance of any risk to manned flights.

I don't think CASA should have any jurisdiction over drones flying below a certain altitude such as 50m. After all, CASA doesn't issue regulations for frisbees or consumer kites!

 

[BigAl07]

It's a bad regulation if the authority that writes it then says they aren't concerned in certain situations. Those situations should be included in the regulation, for example by qualifying with "in urban regions" or some such wording.

I too have been writing to CASA (the relevant authority in Australia), but I take issue at the VLOS regulation and several others and tell them very few fly VLOS. I certainly don't, I'm always looking at my screen, how else are you supposed to take photos? My max altitude is usually about 20 m, so no chance of any risk to manned flights.

I don't think CASA should have any jurisdiction over drones flying below a certain altitude such as 50m. After all, CASA doesn't issue regulations for frisbees or consumer kites!

Last time I checked a frisbee or a kite doesn't have RTH and other autonomous flight features with gyro stabilization etc. A frisbee/kite can't automatically fly above the designated altitude and get into areas not intended. That's like comparing an apple to a mud-hole because both can be on the ground.

Sometimes we need to think outside our own small box.

 

[JohnChap]

It is the lack of RTH and other autonomous flight features that makes frsibees and kites more dangerous. Despite the rare occasions of drones automatically (!) flying above a designated altitude (does that happen?) or getting into unintended areas, IMO that doesn't warrant the regulations that are in place. Those unintended situations are not prevented by observing the existing regulations.

 

[BigAl07]

It is the lack of RTH and other autonomous flight features that makes frsibees and kites more dangerous. Despite the rare occasions of drones automatically (!) flying above a designated altitude (does that happen?) or getting into unintended areas, IMO that doesn't warrant the regulations that are in place. Those unintended situations are not prevented by observing the existing regulations.

We'll just have to agree to DISAGREE!!

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Despite the rare occasions of drones automatically (!) flying above a designated altitude (does that happen?) or getting into unintended areas,

I guess anything that loses control in the air can blow into the wrong airpace, we see this often here with a powered drone not able to cope with wind speed, and it's happened many times with anything light and wind averse, party balloons, shopping bags, etc.

We need rules for drones in airspace, like we have road rules.

Trouble is we keep getting more rules, lowering of parameters to the lowest common denominators out there, and the ones that simply break the rules excessively and won't stop with any regulations put in place.

It's only the ones following the rules that are inconvenienced normally.

 

[Bensherrard1]

Alright... so can I fly anywhere in the colored area? Kittyhawk app. Thanks!

 

[Fun Flyer]

Alright... so can I fly anywhere in the colored area? Kittyhawk app. Thanks!

Hi Ben. Each of the colours on the map dictate where you can and can’t fly or an altitude restriction. You will have to do some reading on the Kittyhawk site to better understand the meaning of the grid colours and how to interpret them.
Personally I use Air Map more than Kittyhawk as I find it provides me with better tools to determine where I can fly with and without required authorization.
Hope this helps somewhat with your question.
Denis