Get more from your Mavic
The largest Mavic community in the world
Join Us Now

Question regarding wind, hovering and max pitch angle

Sallee

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
78
Reactions
56
Age
34
Location
Serbia
Just to make something clear.. Drone is Mavic Mini
I know when it moves it need to create angle (tilt) so it can move, tilt angle when its moving is depends on the which mode of flying is using at the time
so P mode and C mode 20 degree pitch, S mode 30 degree max pitch.. ( so S mode will let drone to do max pitch angle = max speed 13m/s)
My question is when i am hovering in place (standing still) if I am at P mode and its windy days, will my Mini will fight the wind at maximum 20 degree pitch , or MODE is not important when drone is hovering - will fight the wind always at its maximum pitch = 30 degree ?
 
Last edited:

Meta4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
8,679
Solutions
1
Reactions
10,338
Age
65
My question is when i am hovering in place (standing still) if I am at P mode and its windy days, will my Mini will fight the wind at maximum 20 degree pitch , or MODE is not important when drone is hovering - will fight the wind always at its maximum pitch = 30 degree ?
Originally the Mini would only tilt to 20° to resist the wind in Pmode.
But because too many were lost, DJI released a firmware update to allow it to tilt to 30° to resist wind in all modes.
 

Sallee

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
78
Reactions
56
Age
34
Location
Serbia
so no mater in what mode u are when u hover in place drone will use maximum tilt (30 degree for Mini) to combat the wind?
if that is the case, i dont need to be in S mode (meaning i can be in P or C mode) to check is my mini drifting becouse of high wind? meaning that i can just check is the wind is too high for my drone if i lunch drone in the air for example 50m in the are and leave it hovering in place for couple of seconds to see if it will move by it self-to see if wind is safe to fly ( to prevent any chance of fly away )?
 
Last edited:

Mike Mas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
123
Reactions
95
Age
65
Location
North Georgia
If you're flying in a 20 mph constant wind, as far as the aerodynamics of the drone are concerned, the ground speed will be 0 mph, however the air speed of the craft is 20 mph, only the processor itself knows the ground speed is zero mph. So the answer is yes, what ever angle it takes to hold position, the machine will angle accordingly.

Mike
 

Sallee

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
78
Reactions
56
Age
34
Location
Serbia
If you're flying in a 20 mph constant wind, as far as the aerodynamics of the drone are concerned, the ground speed will be 0 mph, however the air speed of the craft is 20 mph, only the processor itself knows the ground speed is zero mph. So the answer is yes, what ever angle it takes to hold position, the machine will angle accordingly.

Mike
Tnx Mike and Meta4 for answers, but its still not clear to me 2 things:
1. can i use hovering at some alt to test will the wind will start to
Move drone from position as good measure of will my drone can combat those winds or not ( i got answer above that its not important in which mode I am drone will resist wind at its max tilt and for Mini its 30’ )
2. If while hovering its not important at what mode u are flying because its is combating the wind always at its max 30’ angle. Then for example if i am in P mode and if the wind speed is 10 m/s P mode would not able to come back drone to me (P mode 8 m/s max speed 20’ max angle ) and i need to switch to S mode ( becuse S mode can do 30’ tilt = more speed ) or i do not need to worry P mode also will do 30’ angle and will bring my drone back safely in auto rth.
 
Last edited:

Mike Mas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
123
Reactions
95
Age
65
Location
North Georgia
There are many other considerations regarding the machines airspeed and max angle such as its, processor protocol, different flying modes, if the camera is pointed down, etc.

My best advise is to not worry about the machine max angle and wind, if you're not an expert pilot, I would recommend that you not fly if the winds exceed 15 mph in gusts. I've flown my machines (on purpose) in winds in excess of 35-40 mph in gusts, using different techniques, you can even penetrate winds higher than the drones airspeed. The biggest error guys make in the wind is to let the machine get downwind, if you do, you might have to bail out and land to prevent losing the machine.

If it's windy keep it upwind and don't let it get behind you!

Mike
 

Meta4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
8,679
Solutions
1
Reactions
10,338
Age
65
I've flown my machines (on purpose) in winds in excess of 35-40 mph in gusts, using different techniques, you can even penetrate winds higher than the drones airspeed.
Really ?? How whould you do that?
I very much doubt that is possible at all.
 

Mike Mas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
123
Reactions
95
Age
65
Location
North Georgia
Thanks for the reply - that's the difference between a new and an experienced pilot. I've been doing this drone thing longer than anyone!

Here's my site:
www.rotory.com

Mike
 

Attachments

  • IINV DECK.jpg
    IINV DECK.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 14

Meta4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
8,679
Solutions
1
Reactions
10,338
Age
65
Thanks for the reply - that's the difference between a new and an experienced pilot. I've been doing this drone thing longer
That doesn't explain how you can defeat basic physics.
I'm not exactly inexperienced myself, but I can't see how you can make headway flying into body of moving air that's faster than your drone's top speed.
I'd be very interested to hear how.
 

Mike Mas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
123
Reactions
95
Age
65
Location
North Georgia
It's far too complicated to explain the flight details on this thread, but it has to do with a thing called gravity. If a machine has a top speed of say 35 mph, and you put the drone in a 45 degree angle towards the ground it will easily exceed the drones designed top speed. It's this technique which allows you to fly winds higher than the machines intended design.

Is this starting to make any sense now?

Mike
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RMS001

Tiger64

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2020
Messages
63
Reactions
29
Age
56
Location
Nz
Sallee also be aware that as you go higher the wind is usually stronger.
So if you hover at 50' but then go to 100' you might find your drone flying away
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike Mas

Meta4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
8,679
Solutions
1
Reactions
10,338
Age
65
Is this starting to make any sense now?
No .. because I understand the basic physics involved.
That won't help drone flyers caught out fighting a headwind.
But thankyou for explaining the basics of your idea.
 

Mike Mas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
123
Reactions
95
Age
65
Location
North Georgia
Ok this conversation is over for me, instead of you trying to learn from other experienced pilots - you've instead shown your ignorance to take advise!

Dump your drone and get yourself a good sailboat for a hobby - you don't have what it takes to ever be a pro drone pilot.

Mike
 

Meta4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
8,679
Solutions
1
Reactions
10,338
Age
65
Ok this conversation is over for me, instead of you trying to learn from other experienced pilots - you've instead shown your ignorance to take advise!

Dump your drone and get yourself a good sailboat for a hobby - you don't have what it takes to ever be a pro drone pilot.

Mike
Thanks for your career assessment Mike.
FYI I've been a professional drone pilot for several years and also cruised a sailboat around the SW Pacific for four years.
I also understand how adding a vertical component to the drone's velocity won't make any difference to the problem of dealing with the horizontal component.
And even if it could DJI drones, limit the vertical speed fairly strictly so the drone couldn't pick up much added velocity anyway.
 
Last edited:

Mike Mas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
123
Reactions
95
Age
65
Location
North Georgia
OH excuse me I sure didn't know your were a professional drone pilot - is that a title you gave yourself?

It would seem to me you would not be asking such elementary questions about flight drones!
 

sar104

Dic mihi solum facta, domina.
Premium Pilot
Joined
May 27, 2017
Messages
13,001
Reactions
16,896
Location
Los Alamos, NM
It's far too complicated to explain the flight details on this thread, but it has to do with a thing called gravity. If a machine has a top speed of say 35 mph, and you put the drone in a 45 degree angle towards the ground it will easily exceed the drones designed top speed. It's this technique which allows you to fly winds higher than the machines intended design.

Is this starting to make any sense now?

Mike

That would be correct for thrust-limited fixed-wing aircraft, but it's incorrect for tilt-limited rotorcraft, where the total motor thrust (parallel to the aircraft z axis), 𝑭, is partitioned into horizontal (𝑭ℎ) and vertical (𝑭𝑣) thrust simply by tilt angle, 𝜽:

𝑭ℎ = 𝑭 sin 𝜽

𝑭𝑣 = 𝑭 cos 𝜽

In a hover, disregarding aerodynamic lift from a non-zero windspeed, the vertical thrust, 𝑭𝑣, is equal to the weight of the aircraft, 𝑾, implying:

𝑭 = 𝑭𝑣/cos 𝜽 = 𝑾/cos 𝜽, and

𝑭ℎ = 𝑭𝑣 tan 𝜽

To descend requires a reduction in vertical thrust (represented by Δ𝑭𝑣). If tilt were not limited, or not already at maximum, that could be achieved by increasing tilt angle, which would also increase horizontal thrust. But in the limiting case of maximum tilt, tilt cannot be increased and so total thrust must be reduced, which then reduces horizontal thrust as well.

𝑭ℎ = (𝑭𝑣 - Δ𝑭𝑣) tan 𝜽

Conversely, to ascend requires an increase in vertical thrust to a value greater than the weight, which at constant tilt is achieved by increasing motor thrust, thus increasing horizontal thrust.

𝑭ℎ = (𝑭𝑣 + Δ𝑭𝑣) tan 𝜽

And so, counter-intuitively, maximum horizontal thrust, and therefore horizontal airspeed, is actually attained while climbing, not descending.

Not that it really helps in terms of actually making progress into the wind since what you gain by climbing you lose in descending again (or vice versa in the case of fixed-wing aircraft).
 

Thomas B

Moderator
Staff Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Jan 25, 2019
Messages
15,781
Reactions
29,208
Location
Gilbert, Arizona
It's far too complicated to explain the flight details on this thread, but it has to do with a thing called gravity. If a machine has a top speed of say 35 mph, and you put the drone in a 45 degree angle towards the ground it will easily exceed the drones designed top speed. It's this technique which allows you to fly winds higher than the machines intended design.

Is this starting to make any sense now?

Mike
No. It doesn’t.
If the drone’s forward speed is incapable of exceeding speed of a headwind the drone is blown backwards angle of tilt will affect speed at which it is blown backwards. Laws of physics. Not opinion.
 

Sallee

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
78
Reactions
56
Age
34
Location
Serbia
Tnx Mike and Meta4 for answers, but its still not clear to me 2 things:
1. can i use hovering at some alt (for exemple if i plan to fly at 80m alt, just to put it at 80m to hover first) to test will the wind will start to move drone from position as good measure of will my drone can combat those winds or not ( i got answer above that its not important in which mode I am drone will resist wind at its max tilt and for Mini its 30’ )
2. If while hovering its not important at what mode u are flying because its is combating the wind always at its max 30’ angle. Then for example if i am in P mode and if the wind speed is 10 m/s P mode would not able to come back drone to me (P mode 8 m/s max speed 20’ max angle ) and i need to switch to S mode ( becuse S mode can do 30’ tilt = more speed ) or i do not need to worry P mode also will do 30’ angle and will bring my drone back safely in auto rth.
guys i still need concrete answer for this :)
 

Meta4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
8,679
Solutions
1
Reactions
10,338
Age
65
1. can i use hovering at some alt to test will the wind will start to
Move drone from position as good measure of will my drone can combat those winds or not
Just try flying straight into the wind and see how fast it can fly when going against the wind.
 

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
102,566
Messages
1,219,249
Members
134,267
Latest member
pedrorobinson