Rules for recreational flyers not clear/complete

[wags1]

As a complete noob that is patiently waiting to receive my first drone (DJI Mini 2 Fly More Package - thanks Amazon prime day!) I've spent the last several days doing due diligence to ensure that I understand the rules and regs so I can fly within them, and safely. I am probably missing something but it appears to me that their is currently a bit of a hole in the way the rules and regs are currently defined for folks just starting out.

If you go here https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers and look at the paragraph labeled "What are the Rules for Recreational Flyers?" point 2 indicates that you have one of two choices "follow the safety guidelines of existing aeromodelling organizations or use the FAA provided safety guidelines per Advisory Circular 91-57B.". OK, I choose to use the FAA provided safety guidelines. If you then go to Advisory Circular 91-57B and review those guideline that document states that you currently must choose one of two safety guidelines to, either the AMA or "The FAA has existing basic safety guidelines for recreational operations" which provides a link back to https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers which seems to me to be strangely circular and provided no additional safety guidelines beyond what I had just reviewed.

In addition to that I did review the TRUST material, took the test, passed, and received my TRUST Certificate. I guess I'm all set to fly right? It turns out that in fact no, their seems to be lots of stuff left out.

In all that material I was unable to find a single reference to several important items. Their was no mention of the fact that flying over people or moving vehicles is prohibited. Their was no mention of any rules about attaching lights to your drone to fly at night. Both of those items I discovered by doing some additional reading. All that begs the question, what else is left out and what else am I unaware of by reviewing all the "required" material?

I would think that it would be in the best interest of the drone flying community to help ensure that rules and regs are clearly and completely spelled out for new drone flyers. I have been a certified scuba diver for over 30 years. One of the reasons why scuba diving has very few government regulations is that the scuba diving community does a good job of self regulating. Of course if you mess up 120 feet down you only hurt yourself so obviously a bit of a different situation.

Again maybe I just missed something along the way.

 

[wags1]

You are flying according to the exceptions from "regular" rules, so you need to understand the "regular" rules first; there's a lot more learning to do.

And that’s why it’s confusing to new drone flyers. Exactly what parts of 107 do and do not apply to recreational flyers? How would I know. If you go here https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers it states “The Exception for Limited Operation of Unmanned Aircraft (USC 44809) is the law that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes.”. That seems fairly unambiguous and does not reference 107 at all.

Again maybe I just don’t understand or things are worded poorly but lots of folks are a lot less curious than I am and would read that paragraph, take the TRUST test and go fly….and they would be unaware of many of the rules and regs.

 

[wags1]

Second paragraph of your page reference. Click on the 14 CFR Part 107,. That's a good place to start--and it's only a beginning.

Thanks, I have read thru all of 107 and have done lots of other reading over the past several days so I think I’m good.

I’m really on a bit of a different point here. I think that this page - https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers , this paragraph “The Exception for Limited Operation of Unmanned Aircraft (USC 44809) is the law that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes.” And USC 44809 need some work to be more clear for new flyers.

USC 44809 IMO does not really fully describe “the law that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes.” You need to read USC 44809 AND some parts of 107 as well. Again exactly what parts of 107 do and do not apply to recreational flyers does not seem to be clearly defined anywhere.

I’m not trying to be pedantic or argumentative but I am trying to provide a perspective of the material from someone who is brand new. I just think that a large portion of new drone owners would simply go read https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers, read thru USC 44809, take and pass TRUST, and assume they would then know what they needed to know to fly safely and within the rules and regs. And based on that material why would anyone expect them to know otherwise.

 

[vindibona1]

@wags1 Congratulations on your incoming first drone!

Perhaps if you have specific questions it would be easier to help you navigate the rules as you go through your first flights. There are some basic rules that I'm sure were covered in the TRUST "test". There are also some nuances that may or may not have been available to you. You probably have the basics to get started...

1) Don't fly higher than 400' above ground level at any time.
2) Don't fly over people or moving vehicles.
2a) You may (as of April 21, 2022) fly over people or vehicles if going over them is transitional. That means a just passing through one time (and possibly on return), not hovering or lingering. But stay away from events.
3) Always keep your drone in direct line of sight (VLOS)
4) You don't have to report incidents that don't involve injuries or cause damage under $500. If either of the two aforementioned occur you have 10 days to report it to the FAA.
5) If your drone with all equipment exceeds 250 grams you must register with the FAA (for $5). As a strictly recreational pilot you are registering yourself and can use the same registration number on all you drones. The reg number must be attached to a visible area on your drone(s).
6) If flying at night your drone needs to be equipped with appropriate anti-collision lights that are visible up to a distance of three statute miles.
7) As a recreational pilot you cannot use any of your video or stills for commercial purposes, now or in the future. The rule is based on INTENT. Your recording must be for 100% personal use. I think that gets cloudy should you get a Part 107 cert and then think that a past personal project might work somehow commercially.
8) Do not fly over events.
9) You may (as of April 21, 2022) fly over people or vehicles if going over them is transitional. That means a just passing through one time (and possibly on return), not hovering or lingering. But again, stay away from events.

Other things that the information may or may not have told you:
Familiarize yourself with airspace, particularly restricted areas. I recommend downloading the B4UFLY and Aloft apps. Also check the DJI Flysafe maps DJI Flysafe link which will give you more explicit information, including "geozones" (geofencing).
Something else that you may or may not find helpful, while not required, is to use a strobe or strobes during daylight hours. It will increase the distance that you can spot your drone, probably limited to 400'-600' feet without stobes.
Always inspect your drone before each flight. You might be surprised as to what you see upon inspection. [I've discovered long womens' hair wrapped around a motor more than once.

I'm sure there are other things I've missed. But one thing that might be helpful is to study the rules as if you're going to take the Part 107 exam. If you want to know what knowledge you're missing, find one (or more) of the free Part 107 pre-tests. While they won't always tell you everthing you need to know, it will show you what information you don't yet know and provide the correct answers at the end of the pre-test.

Hopefully I got it all right and didn't bore you or tell you so many things you already know. Good luck.

 

[MS Coast]

I'm guessing that the OP is concerned about the overall difficulty for new pilots in understanding the rules rather than his own individual understanding.

I agree with him that there's a lack of clear presentation of rules and good practices in the current "system" for new pilots, beginning with the lack of fundamental information in the box with the drone. It's entirely too easy for someone to purchase a drone and fly it without knowing anything at all about safety and sensible operations.

 

[maggior]

This is interesting. There are some folks on this board that are very knowledgeable in this area so I'm sure they will chime in.

I have my 107, took the recurrent test to get certified for night flight, and took the TRUST exam, so I'm pretty aware of the rules. I went back and skimmed through the TRUST exam at Pilot Institute and you are right that there is no mention of WHEN you can fly. I also didn't see anything about not flying over people. Reference is made to CBO (Community Based Organization) rules but the CBOs don't exist yet...which is pointed out.

So, yeah, how is somebody totally new to this supposed to know some of these basic things, even if they do their due diligence and go through the TRUST process. Asking folks to read through Part 107 rules and regs defeats the purpose of recreational flying and TRUST. May as well go the full 100 yards and get your Part 107 at that point.

 

[maggior]

I'm guessing that the OP is concerned about the overall difficulty for new pilots in understanding the rules rather than his own individual understanding.

I agree with him that there's a lack of clear presentation of rules and good practices in the current "system" for new pilots, beginning with the lack of fundamental information in the box with the drone. It's entirely too easy for someone to purchase a drone and fly it without knowing anything at all about safety and sensible operations.

TRUST has a good bit of the relevant information, but is missing some key things like flying at night and flying over people. They are moving in the right direction but yeah, things need to be made clearer for new users.

 

[wags1]

This is interesting. There are some folks on this board that are very knowledgeable in this area so I'm sure they will chime in.

I have my 107, took the recurrent test to get certified for night flight, and took the TRUST exam, so I'm pretty aware of the rules. I went back and skimmed through the TRUST exam at Pilot Institute and you are right that there is no mention of WHEN you can fly. I also didn't see anything about not flying over people. Reference is made to CBO (Community Based Organization) rules but the CBOs don't exist yet...which is pointed out.

So, yeah, how is somebody totally new to this supposed to know some of these basic things, even if they do their due diligence and go through the TRUST process. Asking folks to read through Part 107 rules and regs defeats the purpose of recreational flying and TRUST. May as well go the full 100 yards and get your Part 107 at that point.

This is exactly the point I’m trying to make. I think I personally have a good handle on the rules and regs. But that is only because I took the time to dig around and am a bit more curious than the average bear. I think the material, as written, in both the TRUST info and exam and USC 44809 lacks several elements that all new flyers should know.

As an example if I take the post above by vindabona1, points 2, 2a, 6, and 9 are not covered at all in the TRUST material or exams or in USC 44809. At the very least those points should be included in TRUST, IMO.

 

[brett8883]

In all that material I was unable to find a single reference to several important items. Their was no mention of the fact that flying over people or moving vehicles is prohibited.

This is not correct. If you follow ALL of the rest of rules for recreational flyers there is no prohibition for flying over people or vehicles. If you follow all the recreational rules you are allowed to fly over people and vehicles. At least for now.

Their was no mention of any rules about attaching lights to your drone to fly at night.

There is no requirement to use lights when flying at night if you follow ALL the rest of the rules for recreational flyers. This is one I recommend doing any way though.

Both of those items I discovered by doing some additional reading. All that begs the question, what else is left out and what else am I unaware of by reviewing all the "required" material?

As long as you follow ALL the rules for recreational flyers those are all of the rules. If you break ANY of the recreational rules you are then subject to the rest of the more restrictive part 107 rules which includes having a part 107 airman certificate.

The recreational rules are meant to be a simplified, less restrictive set of rules for flyers that are just out flying for fun. There is a ton of misinformation out there and even many part 107 flyers have trouble separating the recreational rules from the part 107 rules.

 

[MS Coast]

The recreation pilot rules are rules unto themselves but a carveout limited EXCEPTION to the general 107 rules. If an action is not specifically excepted in the recreation flyer exception then the general 107 rules apply.
Further more, government rules and and regulations are not intended to be a simplified course in learning applicable rules. It means you need to check the various cited references to have a full understanding. For a person who prefers a more coherent method of learning there are courses available such as from Pilot Institute. There are also various YouTube videos but caution is required as they may not all be accurate for proper learning. There is more to learning than simply passing a short test.

Yes, you've reinforced the basic point the OP is making.

It's far too difficult for new fliers to find what they need to know and do as recreational fliers. It's there for a diligent person if they do the research, but most new fliers won't know that they need to do or where to look.

 

[wags1]

The recreation pilot rules are rules unto themselves but a carveout limited EXCEPTION to the general 107 rules. If an action is not specifically excepted in the recreation flyer exception then the general 107 rules apply.
Further more, government rules and and regulations are not intended to be a simplified course in learning applicable rules. It means you need to check the various cited references to have a full understanding. For a person who prefers a more coherent method of learning there are courses available such as from Pilot Institute. There are also various YouTube videos but caution is required as they may not all be accurate for proper learning. There is more to learning than simply passing a short test.

Seems like even folks in the existing community don’t agree on what the rules are. And AFAIKT nothing to the effect of “If an action is not specifically excepted in the recreation flyer exception then the general 107 rules apply.” is stated either in USC 44806 or here - https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers or in the TRUST material.

My only point is that if the intent is for “If an action is not specifically excepted in the recreation flyer exception then the general 107 rules apply.” to be true than that should be specifically stated somewhere…no?

I mean I know that all of you that have been around a long time know all this. But take a moment and make believe you don’t and go read the material for recreational flyers, and only that information, just like you are a brand new flyer that just received their first less than 250g drone, and I think you will see what I’m talking about.

 

[brett8883]

The recreation pilot rules are not rules unto themselves but a carveout limited EXCEPTION to the general 107 rules. If an action is not specifically excepted in the recreation flyer exception then the general 107 rules apply.
Further more, government rules and and regulations are not intended to be a simplified course in learning applicable rules. It means you need to check the various cited references to have a full understanding. For a person who prefers a more coherent method of learning there are courses available such as from Pilot Institute. There are also various YouTube videos but caution is required as they may not all be accurate for proper learning. There is more to learning than simply passing a short test.

See this is where a lot of misinformation come from.

If you follow ALL the recreational rules then part 107 doesn’t apply to you. That’s when you qualify for the exception to the part 107 rules.

 

[brett8883]

My only point is that if the intent is for “If an action is not specifically excepted in the recreation flyer exception then the general 107 rules apply.” to be true than that should be specifically stated somewhere…no?

You are correct, this isn’t true. If part 107 rules applied to recreational flights it would seem awfully dumb to not make recreational pilots learn the part 107 rules wouldn’t it?

I mean I know that all of you that have been around a long time know all this. But take a moment and make believe you don’t and go read the material for recreational flyers, and only that information, just like you are a brand new flyer that just received their first less than 250g drone, and I think you will see what I’m talking about.

Yes lots of people here are confused especially because the rules have changed so much over time which is often a source of confusion especially for people that have been in the community a long time.

If you just follow those rules in the link you cited then you don’t have to worry about the other set of rules. It is how you say you think it should be. You are right it doesn’t make any sense if there were additional rules not on that webpage.

 

[brett8883]

@wags1 Congratulations on your incoming first drone!

Perhaps if you have specific questions it would be easier to help you navigate the rules as you go through your first flights. There are some basic rules that I'm sure were covered in the TRUST "test". There are also some nuances that may or may not have been available to you. You probably have the basics to get started...

1) Don't fly higher than 400' above ground level at any time.
2) Don't fly over people or moving vehicles.
2a) You may (as of April 21, 2022) fly over people or vehicles if going over them is transitional. That means a just passing through one time (and possibly on return), not hovering or lingering. But stay away from events.
3) Always keep your drone in direct line of sight (VLOS)
4) You don't have to report incidents that don't involve injuries or cause damage under $500. If either of the two aforementioned occur you have 10 days to report it to the FAA.
5) If your drone with all equipment exceeds 250 grams you must register with the FAA (for $5). As a strictly recreational pilot you are registering yourself and can use the same registration number on all you drones. The reg number must be attached to a visible area on your drone(s).
6) If flying at night your drone needs to be equipped with appropriate anti-collision lights that are visible up to a distance of three statute miles.
7) As a recreational pilot you cannot use any of your video or stills for commercial purposes, now or in the future. The rule is based on INTENT. Your recording must be for 100% personal use. I think that gets cloudy should you get a Part 107 cert and then think that a past personal project might work somehow commercially.
8) Do not fly over events.
9) You may (as of April 21, 2022) fly over people or vehicles if going over them is transitional. That means a just passing through one time (and possibly on return), not hovering or lingering. But again, stay away from events.

Where did you get this list from? These are neither part 107 nor recreational rules. This is a bloody mess.

 

[Rich QR]

I'll agree that it's a source of confusion for many. We can thank Congress for that. Section 44809 is directly from Congress, and not from the FAA's regulatory efforts.

Read 44809 carefully.

44809(a) says that, regardless of other rules, you can fly a drone without a license if you adhere to the eight listed limitations.

44809(b) says that if you don't adhere to every one of the eight listed limitations, then you don't qualify for the exception, and the regular rules will apply to you. For our purposes, the regular rules will ordinarily be Part 107 (but, for example, flyers of big heavy models might not fit within the 55 lb weight limit of Part 107, so a different set of rules might apply in exceptional cases).

The only "punishment" for violating any of the eight limitations of 44809 is that your flight becomes disallowed under 44809, and then all of Part 107 now applies. If you don't have a Part 107 license, then you immediately become clearly guilty of flying under 107 without a license, and there may be other bits of Part 107 that you have violated.

If you DO adhere to all eight of the limitations, then none of Part 107 applies to you. Part 107.1(b)(2) specifically says Part 107 does not apply to flights conducted under 44809.

A point of confusion is that many of the rules in Part 107 and 44809 are quite similar. They both have rules regarding visual line of sight and 400' AGL altitude limits, for example, but the details vary. Generally speaking, Part 107 is more detailed, and 44809 is less detailed, but then again, maybe when we get approved community-based orginizational guidelines for flight, some details for 44809 will become filled in.

 

[wags1]

I'll agree that it's a source of confusion for many. We can thank Congress for that. Section 44809 is directly from Congress, and not from the FAA's regulatory efforts.

Read 44809 carefully.

44809(a) says that, regardless of other rules, you can fly a drone without a license if you adhere to the eight listed limitations.

44809(b) says that if you don't adhere to every one of the eight listed limitations, then you don't qualify for the exception, and the regular rules will apply to you. For our purposes, the regular rules will ordinarily be Part 107 (but, for example, flyers of big heavy models might not fit within the 55 lb weight limit of Part 107, so a different set of rules might apply in exceptional cases).

The only "punishment" for violating any of the eight limitations of 44809 is that your flight becomes disallowed under 44809, and then all of Part 107 now applies. If you don't have a Part 107 license, then you immediately become clearly guilty of flying under 107 without a license, and there may be other bits of Part 107 that you have violated.

If you DO adhere to all eight of the limitations, then none of Part 107 applies to you. Part 107.1(b)(2) specifically says Part 107 does not apply to flights conducted under 44809.

A point of confusion is that many of the rules in Part 107 and 44809 are quite similar. They both have rules regarding visual line of sight and 400' AGL altitude limits, for example, but the details vary. Generally speaking, Part 107 is more detailed, and 44809 is less detailed, but then again, maybe when we get approved community-based orginizational guidelines for flight, some details for 44809 will become filled in.

So this is exactly what prompted me to start this thread. After reading thru the relevant material several times I had come to the conclusion, as you stated it that, “If you DO adhere to all eight of the limitations, then none of Part 107 applies to you. Part 107.1(b)(2) specifically says Part 107 does not apply to flights conducted under 44809”. But then I was reading all sorts of other posts here that contradicted that conclusion. It seems to me that logically, unless and until something gets changed, it works as you describe. I think the problem currently is lack of approved CBO’s if you choose not to follow AMA.

 

[brett8883]

I'll agree that it's a source of confusion for many. We can thank Congress for that. Section 44809 is directly from Congress, and not from the FAA's regulatory efforts.

Read 44809 carefully.

44809(a) says that, regardless of other rules, you can fly a drone without a license if you adhere to the eight listed limitations.

44809(b) says that if you don't adhere to every one of the eight listed limitations, then you don't qualify for the exception, and the regular rules will apply to you. For our purposes, the regular rules will ordinarily be Part 107 (but, for example, flyers of big heavy models might not fit within the 55 lb weight limit of Part 107, so a different set of rules might apply in exceptional cases).

The only "punishment" for violating any of the eight limitations of 44809 is that your flight becomes disallowed under 44809, and then all of Part 107 now applies. If you don't have a Part 107 license, then you immediately become clearly guilty of flying under 107 without a license, and there may be other bits of Part 107 that you have violated.

If you DO adhere to all eight of the limitations, then none of Part 107 applies to you. Part 107.1(b)(2) specifically says Part 107 does not apply to flights conducted under 44809.

A point of confusion is that many of the rules in Part 107 and 44809 are quite similar. They both have rules regarding visual line of sight and 400' AGL altitude limits, for example, but the details vary. Generally speaking, Part 107 is more detailed, and 44809 is less detailed, but then again, maybe when we get approved community-based orginizational guidelines for flight, some details for 44809 will become filled in.

Yep exactly. 100% agreement

 

[vindibona1]

Where did you get this list from? These are neither part 107 nor recreational rules. This is a bloody mess.

go ahead and correct it.

 

[vindibona1]

This is not correct. If you follow ALL of the rest of rules for recreational flyers there is no prohibition for flying over people or vehicles. If you follow all the recreational rules you are allowed to fly over people and vehicles. At least for now.

There is no requirement to use lights when flying at night if you follow ALL the rest of the rules for recreational flyers. This is one I recommend doing any way though.

As long as you follow ALL the rules for recreational flyers those are all of the rules. If you break ANY of the recreational rules you are then subject to the rest of the more restrictive part 107 rules which includes having a part 107 airman certificate.

The recreational rules are meant to be a simplified, less restrictive set of rules for flyers that are just out flying for fun. There is a ton of misinformation out there and even many part 107 flyers have trouble separating the recreational rules from the part 107 rules.

This should clear things up:

"What are the operations over people categories?​

The ability to fly over people varies depending on the level of risk that a small UAS operation presents to people on the ground. Operations over people are permitted subject to the following requirements:

• Category 1 small unmanned aircraft are permitted to operate over people, provided the small unmanned aircraft:
  • Weigh 0.55 pounds or less, including everything that is on board or otherwise attached to the aircraft at the time of takeoff and throughout the duration of each operation.
  • Contain no exposed rotating parts that would cause lacerations.

In addition, for Category 1 operations, no remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID.

• Category 2 and Category 3 provide performance-based eligibility and operating requirements when conducting operations over people using unmanned aircraft that weigh more than .55 pounds but do not have an airworthiness certificate under part 21.
• In addition, for Category 2 operations, no remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID.
• Category 3 small UAS have further operating restrictions. A remote pilot in command may not operate a small unmanned aircraft over open-air assemblies of human beings. Additionally, a remote pilot in command may only operate a small unmanned aircraft over people if:
  • The operation is within or over a closed- or restricted-access site and all people on site are on notice that a small UAS may fly over them; or
  • The small unmanned aircraft does not maintain sustained flight over any person unless that person is participating directly in the operation or located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.
• Category 4 operations is an addition from the NPRM. This category allows small unmanned aircraft issued an airworthiness certificate under part 21 to operate over people, so long as the operating limitations specified in the approved Flight Manual or as otherwise specified by the Administrator, do not prohibit operations over people. Additionally, no remote pilot in command may operate a small unmanned aircraft in sustained flight over open-air assemblies unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID. To preserve the continued airworthiness of the small unmanned aircraft and continue to meet a level of reliability that the FAA finds acceptable for operating over people in accordance with Category 4, additional requirements apply.

Note: Sustained flight over an open-air assembly includes hovering above the heads of persons gathered in an open-air assembly, flying back and forth over an open-air assembly, or circling above the assembly in such a way that the small unmanned aircraft remains above some part the assembly. ‘Sustained flight’ over an open-air assembly of people in a Category 1, 2, or 4 operation does not include a brief, one-time transiting over a portion of the assembled gathering, where the transit is merely incidental to a point-to-point operation unrelated to the assembly.

Operation over Moving Vehicles​

In a change from the NPRM, the final rule permits operations over moving vehicles, provided the small unmanned aircraft operation meets the requirements of Category 1, 2 or 3 and either:

• The small unmanned aircraft must remain within or over a closed- or restricted-access site, and all people inside a moving vehicle within the closed- or restricted-access site must be on notice that a small unmanned aircraft may fly over them; or
• The small unmanned aircraft does not maintain sustained flight over moving vehicles.

A remote pilot may also conduct operations over moving vehicles with a small unmanned aircraft eligible for Category 4 operations as long as the applicable operating limitations in the approved Flight Manual or as otherwise specified by the Administrator do not prohibit such operation.

Night Operations​

This rule allows routine operations of small UAS, beginning April 21, 2021, at night under two conditions:

1. The remote pilot in command must complete an updated initial knowledge test or online recurrent training, and
2. The small unmanned aircraft must have lighted anti-collision lighting visible for at least three (3) statute miles that has a flash rate sufficient to avoid a collision."

 

[vindibona1]

Perhaps I am mis-remembering... So here is another link to the rules changes of April 21st.

FAA Rules changes, April 21, 2022