Rumor of FAA restriction on use of drone photos

[sar104]

There’s no ‘repeated’ or ‘continually’ in the law if A photo you take with your recreational drone falls into a commercial end use, then you’re clearly in violation- 100%. No ifs, ands, or buts about it! Be very careful who you give one of you photos or videos to! They may be dumber than all-get-out or they just may plainly understand that they have no responsibility in such a matter and are very willing to gamble with your actual responsibilities...hence why most people on this thread seem to think the law is very rubbery...rather than precise.

The law is quite precise - the intent of the flight has to be recreational, and there is nothing in the law about photos, or the subsequent sale of photos. Provided that the intent of the flight was recreational, nothing that happens subsequently, such as the sale of photos, has any impact. So you probably should have read the law before commenting - that would have avoided the need for multiple posters to point out that you are completely wrong.

 

[Briarcliff]

As part 107 Pilots we know others are using various excuses.
Very simple. Post a photo online or sell one you better be part 107 or face the consequences

 

[Meta4]

As part 107 Pilots we know others are using various excuses.
Very simple. Post a photo online or sell one you better be part 107 or face the consequences

Post a photo online??
Now you're just being ridiculous

 

[Briarcliff]

I get your thought. My comment was post with intent to sell

 

[kensteele]

I get your thought. My comment was post with intent to sell

absolutely. if you post that photo on commercialphotographersphotosforsale.com with a $50 price tag then you can be busted. yt or instagram, not so much.

now we are getting somewhere because you were forced to use the word "intent." so what about the second part of your statement, "sell one." if you post it on yt with the intent on showing off your skills and a local church group offer you $100 to use it on their newsletter and you take it....

remember, last year i flew that fight for recreational purposes and i took 500 photos and put them all online on instagram. the chuch took a look online and reached out to me, my intent last year when i flew that flight was not to snap pictures for sale. if i accept $100 for rights to that photo, have i broken the law? did my flight from last year now turn into an unlawful commercial flight without 107?

c'mon briar, you're killing us. why are you so angry about this? haven't you found loopholes in the regulations that let you fly recreational while you still carry 107 license? don't you find it convenient to go back and forth from commercial and recreational at will so you can flaunt the rules yourself?

if you fly a recreational flight one week and next week you sell a photo of a castle, can the faa drag you in front of a "federal magistrate" and force you to prove you didn't take that photo during one of your recreational flights? LOL LOL

 

[Meta4]

haven't you found loopholes in the law that let you fly recreational while you still carry 107 license?

There's no loophole needed.
Just like a 747 captain can fly a piper cub for recreation, a 107 flyer can also fly his drone for fun.

 

[kensteele]

There's no loophole needed.
Just like a 747 captain can fly a piper cub for recreation, a 107 flyer can also fly his drone for fun.

the debate is not whether you can fly for fun. you can.
the debate is whether you can forgo the 107 rules and utilize all the exemptions provided to recreational pilots with a commercial drone.
are their separate rules for 747 and pipers?
because there are rules for everybody and then there are exceptions for recreational. i personally just don't believe the exceptions apply to everybody and if they do, it's a loophole being taken advantage of by 107. but that's another thread, please stay on topic, or start another thread on that beaten horse.

 

[Maviac]

the debate is not whether you can fly for fun. you can.
the debate is whether you can forgo the 107 rules and utilize all the exemptions provided to recreational pilots with a commercial drone.
are their separate rules for 747 and pipers?

There’s not really a legitimate debate on that either, at least if you understand how regs and laws work.

But there are certainly differences in medical requirements for commercial pilots and ATPs. An ATP without a 1st class or commercial pilot without a 2nd can still fly recreationally/for personal purposes with a 3rd class medical under his or her private certificate. An ATP who is over duty hours can go fly his Cub even if he can’t fly the 747, just like a commercial truck driver over hours can go drive his non-commercial vehicle.

 

[Gryphon962]

The real estate industry is a very big target for the FAA, should they choose to actually do some enforcement. We all know they use unqualified people to take pictures, and then they publish the 'evidence' online, including of course the address of each listing. It doesn't take much effort to compare the location of each listing to the sectional and then query the flight plan system to see, at least for listings inside controlled airspace, if anyone ever had permission to fly there. As soon as the FAA figures that out, some realtors will be getting calls they weren't expecting asking for the cert number of whoever took their pictures.

 

[kensteele]

There’s not really a legitimate debate on that either, at least if you understand how regs and laws work.

But there are certainly differences in medical requirements for commercial pilots and ATPs. An ATP without a 1st class or commercial pilot without a 2nd can still fly recreationally/for personal purposes with a 3rd class medical under his or her private certificate. An ATP who is over duty hours can go fly his Cub even if he can’t fly the 747, just like a commercial truck driver over hours can go drive his non-commercial vehicle.

you're referring to a hierarchy that doesn't exist in the drone classification world, or does it?

a commercial truck driver over his hours cannot keep driving his load by shifting over to a commercial license. what is the purpose for a commercial pilot to fly on a recreational exception but for no other reason than to "skirt" 107 rules?

 

[MaruSkipper]

I'm not a lawyer but I'm a pilot with 40 years of experience dealing with FAA. It is essential that everyone understands that FAA operates under "ADMINISTRATIVE" law - not criminal law. BIG difference! You actually have less rights with FAA. Don't count on being innocent until proven guilty. I've seen them just make outrageous accusations and it is the pilot's burden to prove himself innocent. Many pilots have been financially wiped out with legal fees in the process. My interpretation of the rule and your interpretation of the rule makes no difference whatsoever. The FAA's newest declaration is that if the flight was "in furtherance of a business", it was a commercial operation. If an FAA inspector wants to give you a hard time, they have almost unlimited ability to do that by just making an accusation. You may ultimately win your case in administrative Court, but you'll go bankrupt doing it. Fortunately, a lot of FAA inspectors are good guys, but you can't count on that. Stay safe, stay legal. Just sayin'

 

[kensteele]

I'm not a lawyer but I'm a pilot with 40 years of experience dealing with FAA. It is essential that everyone understands that FAA operates under "ADMINISTRATIVE" law - not criminal law. BIG difference! You actually have less rights with FAA. Don't count on being innocent until proven guilty. I've seen them just make outrageous accusations and it is the pilot's burden to prove himself innocent. Many pilots have been financially wiped out with legal fees in the process. My interpretation of the rule and your interpretation of the rule makes no difference whatsoever. The FAA's newest declaration is that if the flight was "in furtherance of a business", it was a commercial operation. If an FAA inspector wants to give you a hard time, they have almost unlimited ability to do that by just making an accusation. You may ultimately win your case in administrative Court, but you'll go bankrupt doing it. Fortunately, a lot of FAA inspectors are good guys, but you can't count on that. Stay safe, stay legal. Just sayin'

...which is exactly why us recreational pilots don't want to have anything to do with part 107 and the government b.s. you guys are subjected to...i see why 107 pilots are looking for ways to fly recreational.

 

[Briarcliff]

The real estate industry is a very big target for the FAA, should they choose to actually do some enforcement. We all know they use unqualified people to take pictures, and then they publish the 'evidence' online, including of course the address of each listing. It doesn't take much effort to compare the location of each listing to the sectional and then query the flight plan system to see, at least for listings inside controlled airspace, if anyone ever had permission to fly there. As soon as the FAA figures that out, some realtors will be getting calls they weren't expecting asking for the cert number of whoever took their pictures.

 

[Briarcliff]

Thank you for reply relative to the real estate industry.
I have been a Realtor for many many years and always try to keep up with the newest technology ( drone use included) after reading the rules associated with flight certification etc I decided to obtain the part 107 cert to do things correctly for numerous reasons.
I know I was one of the very first Realtors in the US to obtain my cert ( not that that really matters much)
I have been tracking the pics posted to Mls checking locations as you mentioned. So many times there is a clear violation.
In turn trying to get our two mls systems to make it a rule to register all cert pilots. Just don’t get why they are resistant except to cover the larger Brokers who handle many of the higher end properties.
It’s hard to be aware and hold back- I am very concerned someone will be injured or perhaps a airplane incident.
The FAA has very limited staff to be out there checking pilots and as a results very few fines have been published. Once the unsuspecting Broker does get caught ( if that is proper description) I believe there will be some changes. In the mean time I believe the industry ( let’s say the actually pilots) is flaunting the use of drones in everyone’s faces. Let’s face it the Drobe shot has sold me many a property.
Thank you for your comment

 

[Meta4]

I am very concerned someone will be injured or perhaps a airplane incident.

I would have though R/E photography was one of the least likely drone uses to cause any problems with airplanes.
When I used to do it, almost all flying was between 10 and 50 feet and nowhere near getting in the way of planes.

 

[BigAl07]

...which is exactly why us recreational pilots don't want to have anything to do with part 107 and the government b.s. you guys are subjected to...i see why 107 pilots are looking for ways to fly recreational.

Huh? Flying Recreationally does not relieve the burdens associated with SAFE Flight. That's like thinking that someone with a CDL wouldn't have any affect on their CDL if they have a traffic violation while driving "recreatioanlly" in their own vehicle.

If you're going to play in the NAS then you have rules and regulations to follow period.

 

[Maviac]

...which is exactly why us recreational pilots don't want to have anything to do with part 107 and the government b.s. you guys are subjected to...i see why 107 pilots are looking for ways to fly recreational.

You really just seem seem to be confused about this whole thing.

 

[JamesD71]

The FAA has no rules or regulations about photos, they only have rules and regulations about flight.
If you take some photos on a legal recreational flight, the flight does not retrospectively become an illegal flight at some time in the future because of something you do after the flight.

My God! Under FAA regulation, you're either a recreational flyer or a 107 pilot. Read the details about both, then see if your conclusion holds up.

 

[JamesD71]

negative, james. if you could just use the word "intent" in some of your explanations, you'd see just how wrong you are.

Yeah...like telling the IRS that I really intended to pay my income taxes over the past twenty years, but I just always seem to 'forget'!
You my friend, are living FPV...without any 360 viewing...up, down, or all around.

 

[Meta4]

My God! Under FAA regulation, you're either a recreational flyer or a 107 pilot. Read the details about both, then see if your conclusion holds up.

Exactly ... their regulations are about the flying, not the photographs.
The FAA don't know what photos are, they don't care.
They do care whether you are flying for someone else though .. i.e. commercial aviation.
Are you flying for someone else?
That's non-recreational aviation and needs a 107.
Are you flying for your own enjoyment, that's recreational flight and does not require 107 certification.