Sheriff at my door this morning.

[PompousWindbag]

Just drive down the road and find a nice quiet place to take off and land. They will never know.

That's not so easy in my area. Pretty densely populated, and when I fly at night, I prefer to take off and land from the security of my own property, but if it comes to that, then maybe... My concern now, is that when the sheriff informs "Karen" that I am within my rights (assuming that's what he does), she's going to make a stink with the HOA and eventually, I will have no choice but to take off and land elsewhere. I'm going to lay low for awhile though and hope that the situation de-escalates.

 

[Vic Moss]

Well handled.

If you're able, can you send them my email address ([email protected]). One of the things I've done as a FAAST Drone Pro is develop a program to train LEOs on this exact situation. And it can be done remotely. And it's an official FAA training (almost). I go over what they can (& can't) do when they're called out on a drone report.

I'd love to help them understand their roles as the informational gathering arm of the FAA.

 

[PompousWindbag]

Until now I did not realize a strobe light was required for night flight. In looking for an approved light I see they come in several colors, and operate in Strobe, Flash, or Continuous. I cannot find a regulation that defines color requirement or the strobe, flash, continuous operation.

Wow! If for nothing else, I'm glad my experience has served to enlighten you. In that regard, I feel like I've done a good deed and performed a (drone) community service. The only requirements that I can recall are that the lights have to be visible from 3 miles away, either be white or red (so I chose one that alternately strobes both). I think that's why the strobe manufacture gives you options. I think the strobe is the most conspicuous and eye catching, so that's the mode I operate with.

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

First and Foremost: I am only asking for info - I am not trying to make any statements or argue anything.

Where in the FAR's is the bit where recreational flyers can fly at night? I've been looking and can't find one shred of info that says it is okay, even with approved lighting. There was one general waiver - but it was rescinded a short time ago. I want to fly at night, have everything set to fly legally; but so far all of my LAANC requests have been denied (100' inside Class C airspace and always file for clearance, just in case a neighbor calls) - and I can't find one sentence about night flight anywhere else, including rec flying under part 49, making me think night flight is not allowed. It's driving me crazy.

Recreational pilots can't fly in controlled airspace at night. They are allowed to fly in uncontrolled airspace, that's why your LAANC request was denied. You would need your Part 107 to fly in controlled airspace to be able to get LAANC approval for night operations.

 

[PompousWindbag]

Well handled.

If you're able, can you send them my email address ([email protected]). One of the things I've done as a FAAST Drone Pro is develop a program to train LEOs on this exact situation. And it can be done remotely. And it's an official FAA training (almost). I go over what they can (& can't) do when they're called out on a drone report.

I'd love to help them understand their roles as the informational gathering arm of the FAA.

Excellent, thank you. I think that for now, I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak, because I got the sense from the deputy that he knows a little more about this stuff than LEOs are generally given credit for, based on his questioning. I also think my proactive approach got me out ahead of the problem, as well. But if things go south and I am contacted again by the deputy, I will indeed forward him your e-mail address as a next level of my defense. In the meantime, I am going to keep the full flight record log and full video that was recorded on the night in question. I have not, (yet) provided them the full clip I posted above, as it was assembled a couple of hours after I had to respond in a timely manner to the inquiry, but what I did send him was the raw hyperlapse section of the video (all two seconds of it) as that was taken during the 10-15 minutes of hover time that caused all the commotion and consternation down below. Again, to my credit, I believe, the video clearly shows the complainant's vehicle stopping on the street in front of my home as I was landing, and that I showed no indications of trying to avoid or otherwise obfuscate my location, as I had nothing to hide because I did nothing (insofar as I could reasonably be aware of) wrong.

 

[PompousWindbag]

What I would do now:

Sign up to your Neighbor Hood Watch: Let them know your FAA approved to fly at night,
Let them know your Practicing for Search and Rescue and your Available for finding those who are lost.

Post a security perimeter Picture of your Neighborhood every night on the Posts. '
Post Sunsets when you can and Foul Weather Pictures as well.

If someone is selling there home offer an Overhead View for them showing the location surrounding them.
You can also Post Pictures of Rivers and Streets that flooding, Parked Vans , Utility Work , Pole work,

One quick response that has saved me countless times from speculation is the reason I am flying my drone is that I am checking the Designated Air Space for Search and Rescue Operations , and that is the Reason why my drone has the Wet Suit because it needs to fly under all weather Conditions. It works better than I am joy flying my drone.

Needless to say my surrounding Neighbors know where to go to find a lost cat.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain and Land on the Water.

Mmmph. I did give some thought of posting my video on the neighborhood Facebook page, again, as a proactive measure so neighbors don't make the wrong assumptions about what I'm doing, but I feel that will only draw more scrutiny where there is none now, and that I am only inviting more complaints and trouble for myself. I'm trying to avoid attention, not attract it. Besides, I don't want to lie. I am *not* practicing "search and rescue". And I do *not* want to field calls whenever someone loses their cat. Wait a minute. I see now that you were being facetious. Ha! Okay, you got me!

 

[eEridani]

49 U.S.C §44809 is an exemption from all Part 107 requirements, and sets a different set of requirements. Part 107 doesn't apply to flights under 49 U.S.C §4480

From the FAA :

Hello,

Under the limited exception for Recreational Flyers you must adhere to 49 USC 44809: Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft. 44809 states that the aircraft is operated in accordance with or within the programming of a community-based organization's set of safety guidelines that are developed in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration. To fly at night in uncontrolled airspace as a Recreational Flyer, you must operate under the guidelines of an existing aeromodeling organizations that allows night flights.

For further assistance please feel free to call us at (844)FLY-MY-UA (844-359-6982).

Yet another dodge around flight at night under Class C. At least AMA mentions night flight in some of their literature, never mentioning controlled or even uncontrolled airspace in material I've read so far.

All I can conclude is a person is required to have a 107 ticket and Night rider to even consider flight in controlled airspace at night.

I've resubmitted my query to the FAA but more concise about launching and landing within Class C air space at night.

 

[eEridani]

That's not so easy in my area. Pretty densely populated, and when I fly at night, I prefer to take off and land from the security of my own property, but if it comes to that, then maybe... My concern now, is that when the sheriff informs "Karen" that I am within my rights (assuming that's what he does), she's going to make a stink with the HOA and eventually, I will have no choice but to take off and land elsewhere. I'm going to lay low for awhile though and hope that the situation de-escalates.

When the HOA approaches with their nuisance policy, have in hand a SPL reading from 50 feet of your drone taking off. And have the same 50 foot SPL reading on your heat pump or AC compressor running on high (or hot tub pump, motorcycle idling in the driveway, dog barking, etc.). And tell them to go get their attorney - you need the money you'll win to pay next years HOA assessment. This is really no different than antenna rules which were eventually struct down by the FCC. Noise is noise.

 

[jerrygeb]

Just curious, with the strobe mounted only on top, how do you maintain VLOS? I have a top strobe and two bottom strobes of different colors to help me keep sight of mine, although I've only flown at night once.

 

[Vic Moss]

Just curious, with the strobe mounted only on top, how do you maintain VLOS? I have a top strobe and two bottom strobes of different colors to help me keep sight of mine, although I've only flown at night once.

Strobes aren't supposed to be used to extent VLOS. OEM strobes can be used to determine location and direction, but top mounted strobes aren't for that.

You can mount colored strobes to the underside of your drone to help with location and direction though. It's into a legal gray area though.

 

[PompousWindbag]

Just curious, with the strobe mounted only on top, how do you maintain VLOS? I have a top strobe and two bottom strobes of different colors to help me keep sight of mine, although I've only flown at night once.

The LED's built into my drone (Mavic Air 2S) make it extremely easy to maintain VLOS at night, especially. The contrasting lights flashing against the night sky actually make it far easier than during the day time. I had VLOS for the entire flight of the video I showed you, owing largely to my lot, which sits on the top of a hill, so there is really nothing obstructing my views. It's actually ideal for drone flying.

 

[PompousWindbag]

You can mount colored strobes to the underside of your drone to help with location and direction though. It's into a legal gray area though.

I don't adhere to this practice, but I am curious... How would enhancing visibility be considered a gray area? VLOS is VLOS, so long as it is with the naked eye, yes?

 

[vindibona1]

I hope you're right. As I explained to the deputy, I maybe take the drone out on average once a week at most, and not all of those are night flights. I also stressed that my typical flight pattern is to take off vertically at least 150-350' straight up, before I move in any direction, so as not to draw attention to the drone or cause any unintended stress to the neighbors.

I think you handled the situation coolly and calmly. But personally I think you provided too much information. In the spirit of cooperation all you needed to do was state that you had a Trust certificate (which you could present on demand if required) are aware of all the rules and regulations for both night and day flying and were in total compliance. Providing a video could potentially indicate a violation that perhaps even you weren't aware of. You are under no obligation to provide evidence against yourself, and sometimes what you think it exculpatory could be spun into incriminating evidence. When dealing with authorities, it's good to comply, but IMO only comply minimally. Do not volunteer evidence.

FWIW the FAA controls all airspace, and consequently unless you have potentially broken local laws I have to question the authority of the Sheriff in the first place. As someone else stated, you have a neighbor that just seems to have it out for you. I'm sure they didn't provide the name of the "informant" but were it me, after providing (only) the required information necessary to defend my flight I would ask the Sheriff to go visit the complainant and have a conversation informing them that you were within your rights and for them to cease and desist going forward.

... And some folks here think that RID is relatively innocuous. Just wait. RID is coming. We'll see how innocuous it really is.

 

[eEridani]

Update from the FAA: and the outcome is as I expected.

Hello,

Currently, Recreational Flyers cannot fly in controlled airspace at night.

For further assistance please feel free to call us at (844)FLY-MY-UA (844-359-6982).

John
FAA UAS Support Center
844 FLY MY UA | 844-359-6982

 

[eEridani]

I think you handled the situation coolly and calmly. But personally I think you provided too much information. In the spirit of cooperation all you needed to do was state that you had a Trust certificate (which you could present on demand if required) are aware of all the rules and regulations for both night and day flying and were in total compliance. Providing a video could potentially indicate a violation that perhaps even you weren't aware of. You are under no obligation to provide evidence against yourself, and sometimes what you think it exculpatory could be spun into incriminating evidence. When dealing with authorities, it's good to comply, but IMO only comply minimally. Do not volunteer evidence.

FWIW the FAA controls all airspace, and consequently unless you have potentially broken local laws I have to question the authority of the Sheriff in the first place. As someone else stated, you have a neighbor that just seems to have it out for you. I'm sure they didn't provide the name of the "informant" but were it me, after providing (only) the required information necessary to defend my flight I would ask the Sheriff to go visit the complainant and have a conversation informing them that you were within your rights and for them to cease and desist going forward.

... And some folks here think that RID is relatively innocuous. Just wait. RID is coming. We'll see how innocuous it really is.

In these types of complaints, the sheriff generally is there only to collect information that will be taken back to the office, where the district attorney or similar will decide if a crime has occurred that warrants further action. And I agree - never volunteer info - the DA will twist it around if they need court time.

 

[jaypike]

Wow! If for nothing else, I'm glad my experience has served to enlighten you. In that regard, I feel like I've done a good deed and performed a (drone) community service. The only requirements that I can recall are that the lights have to be visible from 3 miles away, either be white or red (so I chose one that alternately strobes both). I think that's why the strobe manufacture gives you options. I think the strobe is the most conspicuous and eye catching, so that's the mode I operate with.

Just ordered two Lume Cube strobes off of Amazon (one for each of my drones), I'm not going to risk it the next time I'm flying at night.

 

[PompousWindbag]

Update from the FAA: and the outcome is as I expected.

Then it's a good thing that I am flying in "uncontrolled airspace", as I am within Class G parameters by staying under 400' AGL, which is defined as such, no? Airspace Classes: How Are They Defined? - AeroGuard

 

[eEridani]

Just ordered two Lume Cube strobes off of Amazon (one for each of my drones), I'm not going to risk it the next time I'm flying at night.

The top strobe (and it has to be on top) is 3SM visibility. It's murky in my mind if it must be white, or a mixture of white and green and red (for directional info to manned flight pilots). On a drone, pretty sure it is a moot point, but I went tricolor - each color fully visible three miles.

For the night VLOS portion of the requirement, IMHO the built in lights are useless. So I am looking for blue and white lights that are bright enough to easily see a half mile away. I'm investigating a way to utilize the built-in down light rather than strapping on more weight.

Sadly - and I am bummed - I have to carry all my kit 200 feet down the street to be clearly outside controlled airspace to launch my drone at night. At least it is an undeveloped cul-de-sac. But pretty certain it will arouse the neighbors. I think I'll get a magnetic glow-in-the-dark car sign that reads - POLEECE DRONE SERVICES ... wait, that'll just get me shot.

 

[eEridani]

Then it's a good thing that I am flying in "uncontrolled airspace", as I am within Class G parameters, which is defined as such, no? Airspace Classes: How Are They Defined? - AeroGuard

Like I said earlier - I wasn't trying to frame your flight as illegal - I was hoping you or someone here had the answer I finally got from the FAA.

 

[PompousWindbag]

I think you handled the situation coolly and calmly. But personally I think you provided too much information. In the spirit of cooperation all you needed to do was state that you had a Trust certificate (which you could present on demand if required) are aware of all the rules and regulations for both night and day flying and were in total compliance. Providing a video could potentially indicate a violation that perhaps even you weren't aware of. You are under no obligation to provide evidence against yourself, and sometimes what you think it exculpatory could be spun into incriminating evidence. When dealing with authorities, it's good to comply, but IMO only comply minimally. Do not volunteer evidence.

Of course, you are correct and your point is well taken. I probably did provide too much info. But my aim was to cooperate, provide supporting evidence that I have absolutely nothing to hide in order to quickly and resolutely put the matter to rest. I don't want this thing to be drawn out any longer than is necessary. I figured by proactively proving my TRUST cert, FAA reg and the very footage that resulted in the call, I would be, in effect, helping law enforcement help me. They're not looking for trouble. They're just responding to a concerned neighbor and frankly, I could understand their concern. They had no idea I was doing something completely innocuous. Now, they do. Case closed. Hopefully.