Shooting in log, no view assist and only iso 400-800

[tomic]

I received my drone today, of course winds are gusting upwards of 50mph so i wont be flying but i noticed a couple of things.

Like the title suggests, this drone can only shoot in iso 400 or 800 when shooting in log, and there is no view assist, so you have to compose and fly in log, which is difficult,

This is a $3000 drone? I feel like this is a real step backward, coming from the M2P, there are an enormous amount of features missing. What is DJI thinking?

 

[Sportfishtrader]

I got mine yesterday and noticed the same thing. I also couldn't half-press the shutter to re-focus the camera or properly use the Raw still images in Adobe. DJI told me the first two problems were not right and requested i send it back for a replacement. I saw a review where a guy said he also only had 400 and 800. All I can tell you is that two different DJI reps told me that's not right.

 

[CanadaDrone]

Log footage is almost always shot at higher "base" ISOs and it is that way by design. With Log footage, ISO behaves differently than if you are taking a still photo and uses a different gamma curve and exposure control to give you the widest possible dynamic range and largest possible grading leeway in post. This is also why it looks so flat and often overexposed, which is done to protect highlights and avoid clipping any color channels. ISO 800 is probably the most common "base" ISO for Log footage in the video world and the choice between ISO400 and ISO800 allows you to pick the midpoint of your dynamic range to better suit your shooting environment based off of 18% grey. This is not a limitation or disadvantage, you want it to behave like this.

Just as a rough hypothetical example because we don't know the exact figures, let's say you have a modern sensor with ~12 stops of dynamic range such as the one in the M3. ISO800 will give you ~6 stops of shadow range and ~6 stops of highlight range, but with slightly higher overall noise. ISO400 will give you ~7 stops of shadow range and ~5 stops of highlight range, but with less overall noise.

If it makes you feel any better the $100-200K+ camera setups Hollywood uses work the exact same way, just to a much higher standard obviously.

 

[CanadaDrone]

That was a great explanation but it doesn't explain why DJI tech support said only having 400 and 800 iso is a flaw.

DJI tech support is primarily there for lip service in my limited experience with them. If they need to go "off script" you are going to want to independently verify anything they tell you.

 

[Sportfishtrader]

Log footage is almost always shot at higher "base" ISOs and it is that way by design. With Log footage, ISO behaves differently than if you are taking a still photo and uses a different gamma curve and exposure control to give you the widest possible dynamic range and largest possible grading leeway in post. This is also why it looks so flat and often overexposed, which is done to protect highlights and avoid clipping any color channels. ISO 800 is probably the most common "base" ISO for Log footage in the video world and the choice between ISO400 and ISO800 allows you to pick the midpoint of your dynamic range to better suit your shooting environment based off of 18% grey. This is not a limitation or disadvantage, you want it to behave like this.

Just as a rough hypothetical example because we don't know the exact figures, let's say you have a modern sensor with ~12 stops of dynamic range such as the one in the M3. ISO800 will give you ~6 stops of shadow range and ~6 stops of highlight range, but with slightly higher overall noise. ISO400 will give you ~7 stops of shadow range and ~5 stops of highlight range, but with less overall noise.

If it makes you feel any better the $100-200K+ camera setups Hollywood uses work the exact same way, just to a much higher standard obviously.

That was a great explanation but it doesn't explain why DJI tech support said only having 400 and 800 iso is a flaw. Additionally, a fixed iso of 400 or 800 in log would be considered a spec, right? In my mind a pretty **** important one. So, why can't I find it on the DJI spec sheet? It clearly says video 100 base ISO.

Another oddity I am noticing is that many reviewers don't even mention it. I actually saw one guy screen record in Raw and his iso was visible at 100.

 

[CanadaDrone]

I can't explain what DJI is telling you, but at rest assured their engineers know what they are doing.

Outside of D-Log, I think you will find ISO 100 can be selected, which could be why they don't bother with the distinction. I don't have a M3 in my hands.

To your last point, most "reviews" I have seen of the drone are done by people looking for maximize their YouTube views rather than those who have a deep understanding of both the drone and how certain aspects of videography work. I've seen very few that do more than read off the spec sheet and fly it around a bit.

 

[am'obi]

I can't explain what DJI is telling you, but at rest assured their engineers know what they are doing.

Outside of D-Log, I think you will find ISO 100 can be selected, which could be why they don't bother with the distinction. I don't have a M3 in my hands.

To your last point, most "reviews" I have seen of the drone are done by people looking for maximize their YouTube views rather than those who have a deep understanding of both the drone and how certain aspects of videography work. I've seen very few that do more than read off the spec sheet and fly it around a bit.

This should be common sense and have nothing to do with a deep understanding of how a drone works. It doesn't make any sense if you can only shoot at 400 to 800 iso in Log. That's not normal. I can understand if base iso is 400 or 800 in Log, but I don't know why you can't bump it up above 800 iso.

 

[CanadaDrone]

This should be common sense and have nothing to do with a deep understanding of how a drone works. It doesn't make any sense if you can only shoot at 400 to 800 iso in Log. That's not normal. I can understand if base iso is 400 or 800 in Log, but I don't know why you can't bump it up above 800 iso.

I think the concept of Log footage is well beyond common sense, but the DJI technical reps not understanding the basics of Log footage is certainly not confidence inspiring. As for the YouTubers I was referring to with that comment, that is no surprise at all - most of them are just there for the views.

I don't have the drone, but you likely cannot change the ISO beyond that range in D-Log because there would never be a reason to do so. The whole point of D-Log is to capture the widest possible dynamic range and if going beyond those values prevents you from doing that, there is no reason to allow it. Setting your ISO to 100 or 6400 in D-Log would not be particularly beneficial for any scenarios I can think of based on how D-Log handles exposure.

 

[tomic]

Yes

 

[am'obi]

I think the concept of Log footage is well beyond common sense, but the DJI technical reps not understanding the basics of Log footage is certainly not confidence inspiring. As for the YouTubers I was referring to with that comment, that is no surprise at all - most of them are just there for the views.

I don't have the drone, but you likely cannot change the ISO beyond that range in D-Log because there would never be a reason to do so. The whole point of D-Log is to capture the widest possible dynamic range and if going beyond those values prevents you from doing that, there is no reason to allow it. Setting your ISO to 100 or 6400 in D-Log would not be particularly beneficial for any scenarios I can think of based on how D-Log handles exposure.

I got your point now. Maybe DJI did it for a good reason. I am impressed you can go as low as 400. For some cameras, 800 is the starting point.
Some people are not happy because of the price. I am wondering if they had named it something different instead of Mavic 3. Would they have complained about the cost? The sensor alone is worth the price tag.

 

[tomic]

Log footage is almost always shot at higher "base" ISOs and it is that way by design. With Log footage, ISO behaves differently than if you are taking a still photo and uses a different gamma curve and exposure control to give you the widest possible dynamic range and largest possible grading leeway in post. This is also why it looks so flat and often overexposed, which is done to protect highlights and avoid clipping any color channels. ISO 800 is probably the most common "base" ISO for Log footage in the video world and the choice between ISO400 and ISO800 allows you to pick the midpoint of your dynamic range to better suit your shooting environment based off of 18% grey. This is not a limitation or disadvantage, you want it to behave like this.

Just as a rough hypothetical example because we don't know the exact figures, let's say you have a modern sensor with ~12 stops of dynamic range such as the one in the M3. ISO800 will give you ~6 stops of shadow range and ~6 stops of highlight range, but with slightly higher overall noise. ISO400 will give you ~7 stops of shadow range and ~5 stops of highlight range, but with less overall noise.

If it makes you feel any better the $100-200K+ camera setups Hollywood uses work the exact same way, just to a much higher standard obviously.

How do you explain the m2p having a iso range of 100-6400 in log then?

Also, please name a $100k camera that has a max iso of 800, in fact, try to name a $1000 camera with a max iso of 800

 

[Sportfishtrader]

I think the concept of Log footage is well beyond common sense, but the DJI technical reps not understanding the basics of Log footage is certainly not confidence inspiring. As for the YouTubers I was referring to with that comment, that is no surprise at all - most of them are just there for the views.

I don't have the drone, but you likely cannot change the ISO beyond that range in D-Log because there would never be a reason to do so. The whole point of D-Log is to capture the widest possible dynamic range and if going beyond those values prevents you from doing that, there is no reason to allow it. Setting your ISO to 100 or 6400 in D-Log would not be particularly beneficial for any scenarios I can think of based on how D-Log handles exposure.

And based on my experience with DJI and noise in their LOG profile, I'd like to get as little ISO as possible.

All I know is that when I reported this to tech support they came back after 24 hours and said they wanna give me a new drone (Without having even purchased the coverage yet).

The whole thing is screwed up. When you get the firmware update it clearly says in the notes that support for 4k 120 is added when it's not. The elbow doesn't know what the *** is doing over there.

 

[c.oberschneider]

Regarding 4K 120: that was definitely added with the last firmware update. Check the "slow motion" tab in the camera settings.

 

[Meta4]

That was a great explanation but it doesn't explain why DJI tech support said only having 400 and 800 iso is a flaw.

DJI support people are a very unreliable source of accurate information.
Most probably don't even fly drones.
They just read from scripts.
If you ask for anything they don't have a script for, they could tell you anything or just agree with you.

 

[Sportfishtrader]

Regarding 4K 120: that was definitely added with the last firmware update. Check the "slow motion" tab in the camera settings.

Well, I can't now because the things already been sent back lol. But thank you! Can you tell me if the half-press shutter button focus works? If i hit the shutter at all it just took a picture or started recording, no refocusing

 

[hiflyer201]

DJI support people are a very unreliable source of accurate information.

I count on the forum for advice and have learned to just bluntly tell DJI support to send a mailer that it's not open to discussion.

 

[c.oberschneider]

Well, I can't now because the things already been sent back lol. But thank you! Can you tell me if the half-press shutter button focus works? If i hit the shutter at all it just took a picture or started recording, no refocusing

Half press shutter button to focus doesn't work. I fear that's not a bug but a feature...

 

[Sportfishtrader]

if that's true it's like many other changes that are fkn stupid. I shoot boats on the water so because my distance changes from shot to shot I need to be able to re-lock focus while flying at full speed. Using my finger isn't really an option.

 

[CanadaDrone]

How do you explain the m2p having a iso range of 100-6400 in log then?

Also, please name a $100k camera that has a max iso of 800, in fact, try to name a $1000 camera with a max iso of 800

They can make the ISO range whatever they want, I am just telling you why base ISO's of ISO 400 and 800 are common for Log footage on modern image sensors which high dynamic range and very linear SNR ratios.

The P4P I believe was locked to ISO500 for Log footage.

Shooting Log footage at ISO 100 or extremely high ISOs defeats the point of it. If you want to shoot a crazy high ISOs sometimes you are better off doing so outside of Log profiles.

I did not say anywhere that maximum ISO is 800 in $100K cameras, those are your words. In fact I referred to it as a common "base" ISO, which is the opposite of maximum.

 

[tomic]

Shooting Log footage at ISO 100 or extremely high ISOs defeats the point of it.

I shoot on a A7SIII and this is simply not true, i often shoot over 10,000 iso with log, when the environment requires it. Now, im not comparing this sensor to the one in the a7siii but to say it makes no sense to use high iso in the dark its completely false. I rather have to deal with the noise and a black image at a max iso of 800