Should Authorities reconsider line of sight with 360 drones ?

[Pacefast]

Part of the reason the Authorities insist on line of sight is the limited forward vision on Traditional drones so you wont see an aircraft on sides, behind, above or below a limited screen field of view !
Not the case with 360 drones where the pilot can look left, right, up, down or behind with better view ability than a pilot in a GA Aircraft like a Cessna .
Maybe with 360 the case should be made for out of line of sight Where the ability to look
all around is better than following s tiny speck with eyes

 

[pinzmann]

I agree.

 

[Droning on and on...]

In my opinion a big part of the reason for VLOS is the gross insufficiency of training as required by the TRUST mechanism, which won't be meaningfully helped by 360 observation capabilities.

Perhaps as part of modification to 107 certification, but training is exceedingly scant there too.

Visual scanning while flying is a habit as well as a practice, something that gets a lot of attention by the Flight Instructor for the newbie pilot learning to fly VFR. There's no equivalent learning to fly drones, so unless regs change in some way that virtually guarantees drone operators learn to automatically scan the skies around them, simply having the capability added to our drones isn't going to make enough of a difference to relax the regs.

 

[Droning on and on...]

To clarify, I do support relaxing the VLOS rules, but not because 360 views are becoming available. Rather, I think the risk is far, far less than the rule contemplates, existing incident history being the justification.

 

[Pacefast]

In my opinion a big part of the reason for VLOS is the gross insufficiency of training as required by the TRUST mechanism, which won't be meaningfully helped by 360 observation capabilities.

Perhaps as part of modification to 107 certification, but training is exceedingly scant there too.

Visual scanning while flying is a habit as well as a practice, something that gets a lot of attention by the Flight Instructor for the newbie pilot learning to fly VFR. There's no equivalent learning to fly drones, so unless regs change in some way that virtually guarantees drone operators learn to automatically scan the skies around them, simply having the capability added to our drones isn't going to make enough of a difference to relax the regs.

These are goggle controlled drones rather than VLOS in that sense !
There is supposed to be an observer maintaining VLOS but the observer is not nessassarily experienced and is not controlling tjhe drone.
Apart from telling the pilot thr rough direction ( If he hasnt been following a Bird ) Is next to useless at present

 

[hank970]

In my opinion a big part of the reason for VLOS is the gross insufficiency of training as required by the TRUST mechanism, which won't be meaningfully helped by 360 observation capabilities.

Perhaps as part of modification to 107 certification, but training is exceedingly scant there too.

Visual scanning while flying is a habit as well as a practice, something that gets a lot of attention by the Flight Instructor for the newbie pilot learning to fly VFR. There's no equivalent learning to fly drones, so unless regs change in some way that virtually guarantees drone operators learn to automatically scan the skies around them, simply having the capability added to our drones isn't going to make enough of a difference to relax the regs.

That sounds like Part 107 snobbery to me. What part of the 107 exam tests a pilot's eyesight, his or her adherence to the rules, their control dexterity, or any other skill, attitude, or attribute which might relate to an operator maintaining VLOS?

 

[Felix le Chat]

Part of the reason the Authorities insist on line of sight is the limited forward vision on Traditional drones so you wont see an aircraft on sides, behind, above or below a limited screen field of view !
Not the case with 360 drones where the pilot can look left, right, up, down or behind with better view ability than a pilot in a GA Aircraft like a Cessna .
Maybe with 360 the case should be made for out of line of sight Where the ability to look
all around is better than following s tiny speck with eyes

Unless I'm very mistaken, LOS is all about being able to see the drone as a ground observer... a limiting regulation to restrict the maximum distance between the drone and the operator. Where 'situational awareness' is mentioned - that refers to the ground operator being able to see with the naked eye which direction the drone is pointing in.

I can't see how a 360 camera plays any role in that kind of 'situational awareness'... any more than a regular lens camera does.

 

[SkyeHigh]

It’s not the visibility from the drone’s camera that is relevant whether forward facing or 360. It is the pilot in control’s vision with unaided eyesight that restricts visibility. Situational awareness is about what the PiC can see and that is not from the air.

Even with a so called 360 degree vision you can still only see in one direction at a time - the direction you are looking wether onscreen or through googles.

As an example: imagine piloting a Cessna remotely, what situational awareness do you have if you are not sitting in the aircraft itself?

Military drone pilots have little situational awareness around the aircraft being flown many miles away but they do have other ‘eyes in the sky’ monitoring them and their purpose isn’t just for a casual look around. They also have considerably advanced flying skills before they get their hands on the controls.

Would you really want Joe Public flying BVLOS? We already know how irresponsible people can be.

 

[GadgetGuy]

It’s not the visibility from the drone’s camera that is relevant whether forward facing or 360. It is the pilot in control’s vision with unaided eyesight that restricts visibility. Situational awareness is about what the PiC can see and that is not from the air.

Even with a so called 360 degree vision you can still only see in one direction at a time - the direction you are looking wether onscreen or through googles.

As an example: imagine piloting a Cessna remotely, what situational awareness do you have if you are not sitting in the aircraft itself?

Military drone pilots have little situational awareness around the aircraft being flown many miles away but they do have other ‘eyes in the sky’ monitoring them and their purpose isn’t just for a casual look around. They also have considerably advanced flying skills before they get their hands on the controls.

Would you really want Joe Public flying BVLOS? We already know how irresponsible people can be.

As long as one is maintaining LOS for maximum signal penetration, one can also clearly see in the direction of the drone to maintain situational awareness of any manned aircraft, without being physically able to still see the drone with the naked eye. The camera view of the main camera, supplemented by the view out of all of the OA cameras, and all the flight telemetry, provides all the additional information one needs to safely fly BVLOS while preserving LOS, ddespite all claims to the contrary. It worked quite well for everyone for years before the VLOS requirement, which was more about limiting the search area for the pilot than airspace safety, prior to mandatory RID. Now that RID is mandated, locating the pilot does not require restricting flight to VLOS.

 

[Droning on and on...]

That sounds like Part 107 snobbery to me. What part of the 107 exam tests a pilot's eyesight, his or her adherence to the rules, their control dexterity, or any other skill, attitude, or attribute which might relate to an operator maintaining VLOS?

None.

I'm not endorsing the FAA's logic, just speculating about it.

My guess is it has nothing to do with eyesight, dexterity, or any other skill. Rather, I believe it has to do with limiting the area the pilot can fly in. Sure, a part of that is situational awareness, but I really don't think the FAA imagines ss. 44809 pilots are scanning the skies, even VLOS.

As for snobbery, if that's how you must interact here, it's Private Pilot snobbery, not 107. When I got my ticket back in the 80s, you simply couldn't get through training without becoming automatically obsessive about scanning the sky and situational awareness. So I'm familiar with the idea, and how it gets to be a part of flying. Not the case with recreational pilots at all. A 360 camera ability won't change that in the least.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Would you really want Joe Public flying BVLOS? We already know how irresponsible people can be.

The general public already is, routinely. Including people that haven't even bothered with TRUST.

And with quite a good safety record, I might add.

 

[Pacefast]

None.

I'm not endorsing the FAA's logic, just speculating about it.

My guess is it has nothing to do with eyesight, dexterity, or any other skill. Rather, I believe it has to do with limiting the area the pilot can fly in. Sure, a part of that is situational awareness, but I really don't think the FAA imagines ss. 44809 pilots are scanning the skies, even VLOS.

As for snobbery, if that's how you must interact here, it's Private Pilot snobbery, not 107. When I got my ticket back in the 80s, you simply couldn't get through training without becoming automatically obsessive about scanning the sky and situational awareness. So I'm familiar with the idea, and how it gets to be a part of flying. Not the case with recreational pilots at all. A 360 camera ability won't change that in the least.

I think you have something here especially now drones are seen as potential weapons and to an extent out of control of the authorities !
We get restricted but reality is we are not the threat ! People with bad intent will always find a way around any restrictions