Shutter speed and filters

[Scobo]

So I've been looking into ND filters to see if I really need them.
This is probably the best explanation I've seen yet as to when and why you might need a filter ......

So the bottom line, according to this guy, is that filters are only really needed if you intend to shoot something with fast motion in order to get the correct "motion blur".
Otherwise, for smooth landscape shots or anything with no fast movement, adjusting the shutter speed to get the correct exposure is fine.
Until now, I was under the impression that a shutter speed of twice the frame rate was best for any type of shot.
Have I read this right ?
Your thoughts please guys ....

 

[Robert Mitchell]

So I've been looking into ND filters to see if I really need them.
This is probably the best explanation I've seen yet as to when and why you might need a filter ......

So the bottom line, according to this guy, is that filters are only really needed if you intend to shoot something with fast motion in order to get the correct "motion blur".
Otherwise, for smooth landscape shots or anything with no fast movement, adjusting the shutter speed to get the correct exposure is fine.
Until now, I was under the impression that a shutter speed of twice the frame rate was best for any type of shot.
Have I read this right ?
Your thoughts please guys ....

Not exactly.

For video: Often the light is simply too much to get the shutter low enough to avoid a staccato effect, even at slow shooting motion.

Since the Mavic has no aperature, the only way to lower the light is using the ISO. Once lowered as far as it will go, (100), all that is left is using an ND filter.

You want your shutter speed to wind up down around 2x the frame rate, but anything close will do... even lower is fine, as long as you keep your motion “cinematic “, (slow).

For photo: the higher the shutter speed, the better. No ND filter needed or wanted.

 

[Scobo]

Not exactly.

For video: Often the light is simply too much to get the shutter low enough to avoid a staccato effect, even at slow shooting motion.

Since the Mavic has no aperature, the only way to lower the light is using the ISO. Once lowered as far as it will go, (100), all that is left is using an ND filter.

You want your shutter speed to wind up down around 2x the frame rate, but anything close will do... even lower is fine, as long as you keep your motion “cinematic “, (slow).

For photo: the higher the shutter speed, the better. No ND filter needed or wanted.

Thanks for the that.
So basically, you reckon shutter speeds higher than 2x frame rate are no good, even for shots with no fast motion ?
The guy in that video appears to suggest higher speeds are fine.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

Thanks for the that.
So basically, you reckon shutter speeds higher than 2x frame rate are no good, even for shots with no fast motion ?
The guy in that video appears to suggest higher speeds are fine.

Not saying ANYTHING higher than 2x is bad. Just that at some point, depending on your motion, you will begin to see what is called staccato, or stutter. Where that occurs, depends on a number of factors, including how you view the final product.

Edit: Yes, sometimes we can get away with breaking the "rules" as they are usually just best practices, after all.

 

[Mavic_Pete]

I made a very similar thread when i was learning and received a bunch of helpful answers. I actually used that same video in my thread lol here check it out!

Question on ISO and Shutter Speed.

 

[MadValley]

The rule is: Use whatever shutter speed is appropriate for the effect you're trying to capture. If you want a realistic cinematic effect shoot 24FPS and 1/50sec shutter speed. This will give you that realistic motion blur and smooth motion feeling. If you want a crystal clear image (falling water, fountains, birds flying) where the cinematic effect is less important than the visibility of fine features like spray and drops and feather detail, then shoot faster. What you don't want to do is use high ISO values which will introduce noise nor do you want AUTO to be sending your shutter speed, ISO, WB, etc. all over hell and gone while you're filming.

Once you have your parameters set, with the Mavic's fixed f2.2 lens, the ND filters are then used to reduce the light (basically simulating higher f-stops) to keep the shot effect you're going for while you keep the exposure in check (which you can see on the EV level in GO 4).

 

[Mr. Salty]

For photo: the higher the shutter speed, the better. No ND filter needed or wanted.

Unless you want selective motion blur in your photos, like traffic at night or moving water. Those occasions are rare, but they can make for interesting photos sometimes.

 

[Scobo]

Thanks for the replies guys, think I'm starting to get a handle on this now.
Another views are welcome.

 

[Scobo]

I made a very similar thread when i was learning and received a bunch of helpful answers. I actually used that same video in my thread lol here check it out!

Question on ISO and Shutter Speed.

Thanks, I'll check that thread out.

 

[drarmament]

I have 5 filters to keep my shutter speed to 1/50. I mainly use the 32ND because its winter time and bright outside. In the summer it will be even brighter so I got a 64 ND filter. I like the motion that the 1/50 at 24 FPS provides or 1/60 at 30 FPS. This is for video. I haven’t took a pic on the Mavic yet, but I use filters on my DLSR to slow my shutter speed down to capture motion blur or water effects.

 

[drarmament]

When I said bright, this is outside right now

 

[Scobo]

I made a very similar thread when i was learning and received a bunch of helpful answers. I actually used that same video in my thread lol here check it out!

Question on ISO and Shutter Speed.

Wow, some varied opinions there, to put it mildly !
Not sure I'm any the wiser now.

 

[Gerry65]

I primarily shoot video and been doing so for about a year now...first with the dji phantom standard but with the Mavic for the last 10 months. I’m a slow learner but these guys know their stuff. I’ve begun to rely on the little histogram box that you can have displayed on the RC and try to select settings that keep it kinda condensed in the middle i.e., away from the extreme left (indicating darkness) and right (indicating brightness). I also keep an eye on the ev value and select my settings to keep that value between -3 and +3 with the goal being 0. I’m at the beach so I usually use 16 or 32 number ND/P filters.

 

[drarmament]

Wow, some varied opinions there, to put it mildly !
Not sure I'm any the wiser now.

As the artist you have to look for the effect you want. I like the cinematic look so I try to keep it with in the 180 degree shutter rule. Since the aperture is fix, the ND filters allow for a slower shutter speed. The main reason to compensate for the lack of a mechanical aperture. Don’t be confused

 

[drarmament]

I primarily shoot video and been doing so for about a year now...first with the dji phantom standard but with the Mavic for the last 10 months. I’m a slow learner but these guys know their stuff. I’ve begun to rely on the little histogram box that you can have displayed on the RC and try to select settings that keep it kinda condensed in the middle i.e., away from the extreme left (indicating darkness) and right (indicating brightness). I also keep an eye on the ev value and select my settings to keep that value between -3 and +3 with the goal being 0. I’m at the beach so I usually use 16 or 32 number ND/P filters.

I use the histogram too and try to keep my values at 0 but it shifts between -.03 - +.07

 

[hainerob]

One of the main reasons I purchased ND filters is that I was finding that high shutter speeds on very bright days was causing vignetting (dark edges) in video. And whilst I like adding a bit in post on occasion, I would prefer not to have it in the original.

I've settled on the PolarPro 3-pack, I have mostly used the ND8 at this stage --- I should try the ND16, but I shoot mostly in 1080p50 (PAL region) so my goal is 1/100 if I'm sticking to the 180 rule.
(yes, I appear to have a newer model camera on my mavic which does not appear to suffer from the 1080 resolution problem).

 

[Robert Mitchell]

Unless you want selective motion blur in your photos, like traffic at night or moving water. Those occasions are rare, but they can make for interesting photos sometimes.

Correct-a-mundo Mr. Salty!

 

[Scobo]

As the artist you have to look for the effect you want. I like the cinematic look so I try to keep it with in the 180 degree shutter rule. Since the aperture is fix, the ND filters allow for a slower shutter speed. The main reason to compensate for the lack of a mechanical aperture. Don’t be confused

Don't get me wrong, I understand the purpose of the filters. What seems to be up for debate is the 2 x frame rate shutter speed rule and whether or not it improves the look of your footage.
Some say yes when filming fast motion, others say not at all.

 

[Lake_Flyer]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the purpose of the filters. What seems to be up for debate is the 2 x frame rate shutter speed rule and whether or not it improves the look of your footage.
Some say yes when filming fast motion, others say not at all.

If you have to shoot fast action and you need it crisp, because you need to extract stills from it, then a higher shutter speed is OK. However if you run the video you will notice that every 24th of a second (depending on frame rate you chose) there's a black 'flash'. That's the unused part of every frame, because the shutter duration is shorter than the frame duration.
If you keep the shutter speed at max 2x the speed of the frame rate you won't notice any black parts in the frames. They are still there but the human brain can't detect them. They are mixed with the motion blur. Unless you set the contrast and/or sharpness too high in post processing.

If you really need fast action sport filming with fast shutter speeds, as well as a smooth flicker free result, I'm afraid the mavic isn't what you want. You would want a camera with at least 120FPS so you can use a shutter speed of 1/240sec.

Also, if the background isn't changing but only the subject is moving, you will be able to use higher shutter speeds, but it depends on the lighting conditions. Using a good sun hood at least you will be able to get rid of the prop shadows (another thing that, depending on the angle of the sunlight, will occur when using fast shutter speeds with video). You will have to experiment with that en make your own rules of thumb.

 

[Scobo]

I rarely shoot anything fast moving but I see the prop shadow thing at times. Didn't realise a slower shutter speed could help with that so thanks for that.
I've ordered one of the cheaper sets of filters to play around with so I can see for myself if there's any benefit in using them.