State parks rule

[JSKCKNIT]

What does the FAA say?

More information located here:
Public Safety and Law Enforcement Toolkit

 

[sar104]

What does the FAA say?

More information located here:
Public Safety and Law Enforcement Toolkit

LE certainly have the authority to act - I don't think anyone is questioning that. But in the absence of an accident/incident they are, at most, likely to report the concern to the FAA, as recommended in the toolkit.

 

[BigAl07]

I can agree with that. Could they take action. I suppose but they run into issues like jurisdiction and scope of authority. Leaving the Park to enforce a law that they don't have authority to enforce seems like a stretch. Now if you were on the park property flying and left maybe. In fact, I think there was a post a while back where someone got a ticket after flying on park property they left and later received a ticket or something to that effect.

The FAA is very specific in telling LEA that they have authority to "take action" at the time if there is actionable... well action (my words not theirs LOL).

As stated above, unless there is accident/incident it will just get referred/reported to the FAA.

The link above is a great resource for LEA or anyone wanting to learn more about the interaction with the FAA and LOCAL LEA.

 

[Deleted member 94307]

As a state park ranger in Maine I can tell you we don't have authority to do those things. The Feds would have to check registrations, etc. We do enforce state park rules, even the stupid ones sometimes. I've spoken to exactly four drone operators, all of whom were polite and landed their aircraft. If I were to see a drone over the park I would try and determine if the operator was in the park and ask that the operation cease. I would not be looking outside the park. In this state we don't issue fines for this, we just ask the folks to stop flying. As a new drone owner, state park photos are of great interest to me. I'll be planning some flyovers this Summer, but with extreme caution as I'm not quite ready to retire!

Thanks for your input. What is the reason for not flying above state parks? As a park ranger you would know best. Do drones pose a threat to wildlife or is the law only to please annoyed sometimes paranoid people in the park? Just for safety reasons?

Of course I am against flying over people, but it bothers me when it’s a completely empty park. In NJ county parks are off limits but it’s flying from them. There is one park in each county that allows “model” aircraft. When I was kicked out of a completely empty county park I was polite to the ranger who was very nice, but I told him I checked the website and it said model aircraft. I didn’t consider my drone a model aircraft but apparently politicians do.

I don’t want to fly a photo drone with people flying planes.

 

[BigAl07]

....... but I told him I checked the website and it said model aircraft. I didn’t consider my drone a model aircraft but apparently politicians do.

I don’t want to fly a photo drone with people flying planes.

Kind of splitting hairs there aren't you? Since 2012 all R/C aircraft are considered AIRCRAFT per Congress. Why in the world would you think "Model Aircraft" are not allowed but an R/C/sUAS would be allowed?

 

[Deleted member 94307]

Kind of splitting hairs there aren't you? Since 2012 all R/C aircraft are considered AIRCRAFT per Congress. Why in the world would you think "Model Aircraft" are not allowed but an R/C/sUAS would be allowed?

Exactly politicians who don’t learn or read before creating laws.. I’m not splitting hairs . When I read “model aircraft” I seriously thought a drone was fine. Model means modeled after something and built..

 

[Deleted member 94307]

Exactly politicians who don’t learn or read before creating laws.. I’m not splitting hairs . When I read “model aircraft” I seriously thought a drone was fine. Model means modeled after something and built..

I know now that they put us under that label but I totally disagree m. Drones are much safer than “model” aircraft. Most model aircraft don’t have gps or positioning.

 

[brett8883]

I know now that they put us under that label but I totally disagree m. Drones are much safer than “model” aircraft. Most model aircraft don’t have gps or positioning.

Because it’s considered a model aircraft you get more protections under the current law. If it wasn’t then you have to get a 107 license your to fly it anywhere. It’s to your benefit it’s considered a model aircraft

 

[Deleted member 94307]

Because it’s considered a model aircraft you get more protections under the current law. If it wasn’t then you have to get a 107 license your to fly it anywhere. It’s to your benefit it’s considered a model aircraft

Good ...I have my license and can’t stand the fact that no one follows the rules and no one enforces them. I think I should be allowed to fly in parks when no people are present and I truly believe those that made the laws have no knowledge of the technology. They should give those of us with a license permission to fly in parks not over people.

 

[sar104]

I know now that they put us under that label but I totally disagree m. Drones are much safer than “model” aircraft. Most model aircraft don’t have gps or positioning.

That's true, but then most model aircraft are not flown miles out of VLOS and at up to 500 m AGL in controlled airspace - the kind of stuff that we see posted about regularly with drones. Drones demonstrably need far more regulation than model aircraft ever did.

 

[Deleted member 94307]

That's true, but then most model aircraft are not flown miles out of VLOS and at up to 500 m AGL in controlled airspace - the kind of stuff that we see posted about regularly with drones. Drones demonstrably need far more regulation than model aircraft ever did.

I agree but parks lol minus people are the safest most beautiful place and if they gave Rangers the authority it would be a great way for the FAA to check up on us. A win win for everyone. They could even only allow drones at certain times in popular areas. Before 8am and again only when it’s possible to not be flying over people.

 

[brett8883]

That's true, but then most model aircraft are not flown miles out of VLOS and at up to 500 m AGL in controlled airspace - the kind of stuff that we see posted about regularly with drones. Drones demonstrably need far more regulation than model aircraft ever did.

Are you sure about that?

 

[sar104]

Are you sure about that?

Yes - that looks like VLOS to me, and I guarantee that was done at an approved model aircraft field.

 

[brett8883]

Yes - that looks like VLOS to me, and I guarantee that was done at an approved model aircraft field.

I just meant that they are plenty capable of flying out of VLOS and are plenty capable of flying above 500m. So why would it be different with model aircraft?

 

[sar104]

I just meant that they are plenty capable of flying out of VLOS and are plenty capable of flying above 500m. So why would it be different with model aircraft?

Historically it just is. Model aircraft enthusiasts are generally not just consumers with $1k to spend on a toy that is way beyond their capabilities and understanding and which they find amusing to fly dangerously. I doubt you will find any, let alone thousands of YouTub videos of actual model aircraft being flown outside AMA guidelines.

 

[brett8883]

Historically it just is. Model aircraft enthusiasts are generally not just consumers with $1k to spend on a toy that is way beyond their capabilities and understanding and which they find amusing to fly dangerously. I doubt you will find any, let alone thousands of YouTub videos of actual model aircraft being flown outside AMA guidelines.

I see. You aren’t making the case model are inherently safer you are making the case that drone operators more often break the rules. You might be correct but we don’t actually have the data to conclude that. We just have the observation that drones are more abundant and drone operators are more likely to post the footage online likely due to the fact that almost all of them have FPV cameras. I’m don’t disagreeing with you I’m just saying that we don’t have the data to conclude that drone pilots break the rules at a higher rate then model aircraft pilots though it wouldn’t entirely surprise me either.

 

[sar104]

I see. You aren’t making the case model are inherently safer you are making the case that drone operators more often break the rules. You might be correct but we don’t actually have the data to conclude that. We just have the observation that drones are more abundant and drone operators are more likely to post the footage online likely due to the fact that almost all of them have FPV cameras. I’m don’t disagreeing with you I’m just saying that we don’t have the data to conclude that drone pilots break the rules at a higher rate then model aircraft pilots though it wouldn’t entirely surprise me either.

Fair enough. I think it's blatantly obvious, but it is clearly a possibility that the data are skewed by the relative lack of cameras on model aircraft.

 

[BigAl07]

I know now that they put us under that label but I totally disagree m. Drones are much safer than “model” aircraft. Most model aircraft don’t have gps or positioning.

LOL!

With Model Aircraft (using the phrase you're so affectionate of not my pref) you have to LEARN TO FLY before you can... well FLY! You learn how to control the aircraft without training wheels (gryo stabilization) and you learn to know where you're flying and how to return back to the runway without Guidance (GPS). The beauty of model aircraft (in your definition of the word) it's a self correcting problem. You don't invest the time to learn how to control the aircraft in a safe manner the model aircraft returns to terra firma and re-kits itself. You don't normally buy, charge, fly all within the same hour like you can many MultiRotors on the market today.

In order to have total transparency I admit that some recent "Model Aircraft" on the market do indeed have some optional "Gyro/GPS" options that you can turn on to add training wheels to these aircraft but they aren't the norm and really dumb-down the flight to where it's no longer any fun to "fly".

 

[Deleted member 94307]

See... you don’t like the term I used. I really know almost nothing about it. (Model aircraft)
All I know is that I didn’t have to build my drone and it’s not a model of something... thus not a model aircraft!

The politicians who WONT LET ME FLY A FLYING CAMERA IN AN EMPTY PARK! Lol they have no idea what it takes to fly nor do they understand the technology before creating and enacting legislation that effects us.

They should allow those of us with cert to fly in empty parks.

 

[sar104]

See... you don’t like the term I used. I really know almost nothing about it. (Model aircraft)
All I know is that I didn’t have to build my drone and it’s not a model of something... thus not a model aircraft!

The politicians who WONT LET ME FLY A FLYING CAMERA IN AN EMPTY PARK! Lol they have no idea what it takes to fly nor do they understand the technology before creating and enacting legislation that effects us.

They should allow those of us with cert to fly in empty parks.

It's certainly arguable that a drone is not a model aircraft in the sense that it's not a model of a real aircraft. But of course if you exclude drones then obviously Section 336 no longer applies to drones, and they fall entirely under Part 107. For hobbyists that makes things much worse, not better. This really just illustrates that the term "model aircraft" needs to be changed to include drones, rather than excluding drones from the definition.