Taking By POLICE

[Jasnwatsn]

Ok. This thread is 5 pages long and honestly don’t feel like reading all 5 pages. First thing I’d do is file a complaint with their Internal Affairs division. The only thing I can think of as to why they felt they had probable cause was due to receiving the complaint of you flying over someone else’s private property (I know, not exactly illegal), someone complained, the LEOs don’t realize there isn’t much they can do about it, seizes your property as potential evidence of a crime, wrote a search warrant with probable cause to believe you may have photos or video constituting illegal activity, a judge that didn’t know the law well enough signed it (which they can’t be held liable for), then searched it, found nothing, and returned it. Now if you go to Internal Affairs and file a complaint they MUST look into the case. Also, go to your County Clerks office and get a copy of the search warrant to find out what their probable cause was to search your SD card.

 

[jaja6009]

I am currently a Firefighter involved with the city's drone program. Together several entities(Police, Fire, Public Works, Risk Management, Business Administrator, Code Enforcement, Beach Patrol) of the city all took a local college class and then all obtained Part 107's. This was done to try to put all involved on the same page. I am currently the coordinator for the drone program on the Fire side and often interact with the Police side. When I asked some of the officers that are Part 107 and more knowledgeable on the rules how they would respond to any perceived illegal drone flights I was told this. Paraphrased: For the most part any contact would be mostly likely made from a complaint unless an offense was witnessed first hand by an officer. They try to follow this:



Which is currently posted on FAA.gov

They will find out under what the person is flying (107, hobbyist), ask for proof of registration, look for registration on the drone, proof of 107 if its a commercial flight.
If it was a complaint (Peeping Tom, flying over critical infrastructure, flying over people) they may ask to view footage, and possibly confiscate the drone. They might not even need any information from the drone operator as cell phone video from the reporting party seems to be almost the new norm. We have beaches and the Beach patrol has a real problem with drones hovering over sunbathing women.
A lot of it is situational. If they see a drone fly across a busy roadway, yes they are going to take action. If they see a drone hovering over a sunbathing woman, they are going to take action. A lot is going to depend on the initial investigation where they question "detain" someone. A disorderly person charge is one of the most widely abused(one perspective), used (another perspective) charge that can also be used beside trespassing (yes if your drone is flying over critical infrastructure like the power plant) they may try to pursue this avenue. And at this time they have not had to charge anyone. Maybe charges they apply will not hold up if tested as a lot of this is new to them. Several police officers have a Part 107 and many have their own drones. They are not antidrone. But if calls are made by the general public, they must investigate, and yes drone owners are going to be angry just like when the police show up to investigate anything since most people do not like officer initiated encounters of any type. Drone enforcement for us is a low priority since most of the city has inner city problems, but if someone calls to complain or an officer sees unsafe or illegal drone usage, they are going to intervene.

In regards to the OP as someone else stated the full picture of this is not known. Did someone call to complain? Was the drone flying over people or hovering outside someones house. The person who called (If there was one) may just not like drones and may be ignorant in the laws regarding them or even exaggerated what the OP was doing. The police are going to have to investigate a complaint, they do not know if the caller is exaggerating or flat out lying unfortunately. And keep in mind as someone else stated trespassing laws are going to vary state to state.

OP I am sorry you had to have your property confiscated just to prove you were not doing anything illegal. Maybe everyone should be prepared for this situation, have all of your documentation on hand and even offer to show the police your flight logs and obtained data if that will expedite the encounter and perhaps not end with them taking weeks to confiscate your drone and look at all the data on it.

 

[Earthman]

Unless there is a recent FAA rule change that I am not aware of, in the USA you are not permitted to fly at night; i.e., between 30-min after sunset and 30-min before sunrise, or over people without a waiver, and this is true for recreational and commercial pilots. You need navigation lights if flying during twilight (in the window described above) and if you have a waiver and are flying at night.

LOE had probable cause, so I assume they are able to confiscate your drone and investigate without a warrant.

Save your money. Don’t hire an attorney. Read the rules instead. Here’s a summary:

AirMap Support | For all your AirMap questions and answers | AirMap

We can help with any questions or AirMap support for technical issues. Get online support with our extensive documentation and wikis. Get support today.

www.airmap.com

You can find the actual rules on the FAA’s website.

The FAA is considering rule changes that let commercial pilots fly at night and over people without a waiver. See here:

How to Legally Fly Your Drone at Night Under the FAA's New Rules - Drone Pilot Ground School

Learn how to get permission to fly a drone at night. Step-by-step instructions for completing the FAA Part 107 daylight operations/night waiver application.

www.dronepilotgroundschool.com

 

[ardpub]

I am currently a Firefighter involved with the city's drone program. Together several entities(Police, Fire, Public Works, Risk Management, Business Administrator, Code Enforcement, Beach Patrol) of the city all took a local college class and then all obtained Part 107's. This was done to try to put all involved on the same page. I am currently the coordinator for the drone program on the Fire side and often interact with the Police side. When I asked some of the officers that are Part 107 and more knowledgeable on the rules how they would respond to any perceived illegal drone flights I was told this. Paraphrased: For the most part any contact would be mostly likely made from a complaint unless an offense was witnessed first hand by an officer. They try to follow this:

View attachment 83436

Which is currently posted on FAA.gov

They will find out under what the person is flying (107, hobbyist), ask for proof of registration, look for registration on the drone, proof of 107 if its a commercial flight.
If it was a complaint (Peeping Tom, flying over critical infrastructure, flying over people) they may ask to view footage, and possibly confiscate the drone. They might not even need any information from the drone operator as cell phone video from the reporting party seems to be almost the new norm. We have beaches and the Beach patrol has a real problem with drones hovering over sunbathing women.
A lot of it is situational. If they see a drone fly across a busy roadway, yes they are going to take action. If they see a drone hovering over a sunbathing woman, they are going to take action. A lot is going to depend on the initial investigation where they question "detain" someone. A disorderly person charge is one of the most widely abused(one perspective), used (another perspective) charge that can also be used beside trespassing (yes if your drone is flying over critical infrastructure like the power plant) they may try to pursue this avenue. And at this time they have not had to charge anyone. Maybe charges they apply will not hold up if tested as a lot of this is new to them. Several police officers have a Part 107 and many have their own drones. They are not antidrone. But if calls are made by the general public, they must investigate, and yes drone owners are going to be angry just like when the police show up to investigate anything since most people do not like officer initiated encounters of any type. Drone enforcement for us is a low priority since most of the city has inner city problems, but if someone calls to complain or an officer sees unsafe or illegal drone usage, they are going to intervene.

In regards to the OP as someone else stated the full picture of this is not known. Did someone call to complain? Was the drone flying over people or hovering outside someones house. The person who called (If there was one) may just not like drones and may be ignorant in the laws regarding them or even exaggerated what the OP was doing. The police are going to have to investigate a complaint, they do not know if the caller is exaggerating or flat out lying unfortunately. And keep in mind as someone else stated trespassing laws are going to vary state to state.

OP I am sorry you had to have your property confiscated just to prove you were not doing anything illegal. Maybe everyone should be prepared for this situation, have all of your documentation on hand and even offer to show the police your flight logs and obtained data if that will expedite the encounter and perhaps not end with them taking weeks to confiscate your drone and look at all the data on it.

Again, it doesn’t seem anyone on this thread is talking about the actual law that was referenced by the LEO, which is a state law. Not siding with them but the Lousiana state law should also be discussed with regards to this incident.

copied from my post:
If he was cited for “criminal trespass” in Louisiana, that is a Louisiana state law RS 14:63, created after a dispute where a neighbor shot a drone down with a shotgun.

The trespassing laws were basically expanded to include flying over private property with the intent to engage in surveillance. The law was amended to stipulate that this doesn’t apply to anyone compliant with federal law, I suspect because the FAA has sole jurisdiction over U.S. airspace.

 

[BigAl07]

Unless there is a recent FAA rule change that I am not aware of, in the USA you are not permitted to fly at night; i.e., between 30-min after sunset and 30-min before sunrise, or over people without a waiver, and this is true for recreational and commercial pilots. You need navigation lights if flying during twilight (in the window described above) and if you have a waiver and are flying at night.

WRONG! That rule/regulation is only for Part 107 operations. Hobby/Recreational can fly at night (currently).

You're mixing Part 107 and Hobby rules and that's not how this works.

Hobby/Recreational CAN fly at night so long as they follow ALL other hobby rules AND they are flying in Class G airspace.

Part 107 can only fly at night if they are in Class-G airspace AND they have ~107.29 (Daylight Waiver).

That's not a RECENT rule change... HOBBY have been allowed to fly at night all along and the most recent rule changes did not touch on Night Flight what so ever.

Hobby/Recreational operations can not (currently) get any Waivers... nothing under ~44809 allow any "waiverable" conditions and doesn't even mention Daylight/Night flights at all.

 

[B-rye]

Love the entertainment and education this website provides. Amazing you would think people would acquire some wisdom/skill as they age but obviously not.
It just amazes me how this whole drone thing has gotten taken out of context. You would think people would be more concerned about "real" recon/surveillance with tools such as (cell phone) which get audio, (action/go pro cameras) again which get audio and these tools you would NEVER know were recording. But you guys have also too thank the people with their big mouths and social media. Which for whatever reason think we are all just going to get along and don't you want too share. Which causes more harm than good, why because of human nature. We are all just not going to get along, people will Twist and manipulate whatever they can too prove a point and those who have power will use it too their advantage and their are those who will be jealous for whatever reason. It is best too keep your business too yourself and if dealing with people only deal with those who have just as much as you too lose. Problem solved!!
Tools use...
Drones, cell phones, Action cameras
Pictures & Videos in database=
1,000's
Social media groups belonged too
=0
Times posted pictures & videos too internet
=0

 

[Mavic Mac]

WRONG! That rule/regulation is only for Part 107 operations. Hobby/Recreational can fly at night (currently).

You're mixing Part 107 and Hobby rules and that's not how this works.

Hobby/Recreational CAN fly at night so long as they follow ALL other hobby rules AND they are flying in Class G airspace.

Part 107 can only fly at night if they are in Class-G airspace AND they have ~107.29 (Daylight Waiver).

That's not a RECENT rule change... HOBBY have been allowed to fly at night all along and the most recent rule changes did not touch on Night Flight what so ever.

Hobby/Recreational operations can not (currently) get any Waivers... nothing under ~44809 allow any "waiverable" conditions and doesn't even mention Daylight/Night flights at all.

I wonder how many times you are going to need to post, or should I say re-post, the same facts

 

[TheFoxSaysRingADingDing]

Am I too new to call BS on this post? The first signal on the BS meter was right at the beginning when 5.... not 1 or 2 but.... 5 cops showed up.... too many holes in this "story" for it to be true. 5 cops wouldn't conspire to take your drone or even file a criminal TP charge on ya.... At best you might get a warning.... sorry.... just not a believable scenario....

Maybe it was a slow evening in a town where the biggest news is the Dollar General that was just built??‍

 

[B-rye]

The "FEAR" mongering and "SPYING" that goes on is crazy anymore on the internet and at the same time collecting all your data on you

 

[Dr. Bill 1969]

I was flying my drone from my own property, when as I landed five cops showed up to ask if I was flying. I said yes . They then asked to look at the drone if I would go get it. I did . I gave the drone but held the remote from them, they then as holding my drone started telling me how I was breaking the law. They stated under rule 107 I was flying at night ,and over people. I then told them I flew under a hobbyist rule not 107 rule. I gave them my paperwork and they couldn't say anything. They told me call the station in 5 days and I can get a police report, took my drone and left without fair reason .week past got report it had I criminal trespassed on it. AS of yesterday a month later , I was called to come get my drone from them. Along with the drone I was given a copy of a search warrant that was written the day after for my memory card etc. I was told they now were not gonna charge me for trespassing they needed some crime reason to get a warrant. Has this ever happened to you,? What are your thoughts?

You were denied due process. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law.

The Fifth Amendment: No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

 

[Dr. Bill 1969]

Yeah ericpoche this ain't right! I'd DEFINITELY consult with a lawyer. They had no right (and it's a violation of your 4th Amendment Rights). The law is very specific and clear on this. This was an illegal search and seizure. They had no right to search your SD card. Now that you have evidence they found nothing wrong and the flight record shows that. We need a Pilot who's a lawyer (and a LEO) to chime in on this. This could happen to any one of us. LEOs need to brush up on the laws and stop governing/patrolling lawlessly.

Actually he was denied his 4th 5th and 14th amendment rights under The Constitution of the United States. Furthermore, local police lack jurisdiction to enforce any law or laws concerning aviation.

 

[BigAl07]

I wonder how many times you are going to need to post, or should I say re-post, the same facts

1,000,000,000 give or take a couple LOL

 

[ACTIONBASTARD]

Note to self:
If LEO asks if I have a drone the correct answer is “do you have a search warrant?”

These are not the droids your looking for! Kidding! Your answer is best of show. If forces LEO to take a long look down the road to the DA’s Desk. Most encounters I’ve had is the LEO is board, SESAME, is closed and they’re curious. I always suggest carry rules, registration etc. think traffic stop.

 

[WithTheBirds]

your not trespassing flying over property you can't be charged unless you physically go on the property

My guess is this is an uniformed view. You will find over time that trespass by drone will be a common complaint. In any case it is usually good practice to learn something about the subject issues prior to making statements which others may rely on as factually correct.

 

[DeltaTango]

... The law is very specific and clear on this. This was an illegal search and seizure. ...

Well ... and they have absolutely NO authority to enforce federal regulations....

 

[apixelpilot]

Whoa...
fwiw: I had several police officers tell me it was completely illegal to fly *anywhere* in San Francisco. Granted it's not that big of a city and the SFO takes up half of the airspace.

 

[HK!]

Did OP ever reply? Or just that one post, kick back and eat popcorn

 

[ABro]

I was flying my drone from my own property, when as I landed five cops showed up to ask if I was flying. I said yes . They then asked to look at the drone if I would go get it. I did . I gave the drone but held the remote from them, they then as holding my drone started telling me how I was breaking the law. They stated under rule 107 I was flying at night ,and over people. I then told them I flew under a hobbyist rule not 107 rule. I gave them my paperwork and they couldn't say anything. They told me call the station in 5 days and I can get a police report, took my drone and left without fair reason .week past got report it had I criminal trespassed on it. AS of yesterday a month later , I was called to come get my drone from them. Along with the drone I was given a copy of a search warrant that was written the day after for my memory card etc. I was told they now were not gonna charge me for trespassing they needed some crime reason to get a warrant. Has this ever happened to you,? What are your thoughts?

Where you were flying (not where you were flying from) is pretty relevant to this question. What was the “probable cause?”

It’s easy to say LEOs targeted you because it was a slow day, somebody had to call it in.

Confiscating the bird without due process is fishy. Somebody simply didn’t want you flying above them that day Is my take.

 

[Bigbird48]

I am currently a Firefighter involved with the city's drone program. Together several entities(Police, Fire, Public Works, Risk Management, Business Administrator, Code Enforcement, Beach Patrol) of the city all took a local college class and then all obtained Part 107's. This was done to try to put all involved on the same page. I am currently the coordinator for the drone program on the Fire side and often interact with the Police side. When I asked some of the officers that are Part 107 and more knowledgeable on the rules how they would respond to any perceived illegal drone flights I was told this. Paraphrased: For the most part any contact would be mostly likely made from a complaint unless an offense was witnessed first hand by an officer. They try to follow this:

View attachment 83436

Which is currently posted on FAA.gov

They will find out under what the person is flying (107, hobbyist), ask for proof of registration, look for registration on the drone, proof of 107 if its a commercial flight.
If it was a complaint (Peeping Tom, flying over critical infrastructure, flying over people) they may ask to view footage, and possibly confiscate the drone. They might not even need any information from the drone operator as cell phone video from the reporting party seems to be almost the new norm. We have beaches and the Beach patrol has a real problem with drones hovering over sunbathing women.
A lot of it is situational. If they see a drone fly across a busy roadway, yes they are going to take action. If they see a drone hovering over a sunbathing woman, they are going to take action. A lot is going to depend on the initial investigation where they question "detain" someone. A disorderly person charge is one of the most widely abused(one perspective), used (another perspective) charge that can also be used beside trespassing (yes if your drone is flying over critical infrastructure like the power plant) they may try to pursue this avenue. And at this time they have not had to charge anyone. Maybe charges they apply will not hold up if tested as a lot of this is new to them. Several police officers have a Part 107 and many have their own drones. They are not antidrone. But if calls are made by the general public, they must investigate, and yes drone owners are going to be angry just like when the police show up to investigate anything since most people do not like officer initiated encounters of any type. Drone enforcement for us is a low priority since most of the city has inner city problems, but if someone calls to complain or an officer sees unsafe or illegal drone usage, they are going to intervene.

In regards to the OP as someone else stated the full picture of this is not known. Did someone call to complain? Was the drone flying over people or hovering outside someones house. The person who called (If there was one) may just not like drones and may be ignorant in the laws regarding them or even exaggerated what the OP was doing. The police are going to have to investigate a complaint, they do not know if the caller is exaggerating or flat out lying unfortunately. And keep in mind as someone else stated trespassing laws are going to vary state to state.

OP I am sorry you had to have your property confiscated just to prove you were not doing anything illegal. Maybe everyone should be prepared for this situation, have all of your documentation on hand and even offer to show the police your flight logs and obtained data if that will expedite the encounter and perhaps not end with them taking weeks to confiscate your drone and look at all the data on it.

If your on a beach sunbathing you have no expectation of privacy, if your in your back yard thats a different story. Photography is not a crime, and is protected under the US constitution, weather it be on the ground or in the ait its just photography .

 

[AMann]

This is why I never fly at home. You never know if a neighbor will cause trouble, and you typically won't know who it is. I also don't want to make enemies with neighbors. It's always best to fly where you truly thinks it's legal to fly, outside your neighborhood.

In a case like this, it's easier to simply lie to the cop if he didn't see you flying. NEVER ADMIT to flying drones to a LEO if he didn't see you himself. Even if he sees your drone stuff after you have flown, you can say "I was getting ready to fly, I've seen others fly here, is that OK?" If he says no, then just apologize and leave.

In this case you could have said, oh yeah, my friend came by to show me his drone and flew it a little bit. He just left. Did he do something wrong? The cop can't force you to disclose any names of others. Or just deny knowing his last name. It ends there. Easier to lie about it, and you've learned a lesson of where not to fly.

Anytime I'm flying, I try to fly as stealth as best possible, mitigating the possibility of someone calling a LEO. This means I use a launch site where few can see me launch or navigate. My backpack allows me to easily hike to such places and fly with privacy. This also mitigates people from asking all those questions (how far, how long, etc). Sometimes I'll have to wait for the right time to launch, with the fewest people walking by. And after takeoff, I try to remain hard to see me, navigating with the remote for the duration of the flight, while staying somewhat hidden out of sight. I've been know to hide in bushes, for the shade and stealth benefits. Yes, sometimes this means flying FPV, practically the whole time.

Sometimes I'll elect to launch and navigate from INSIDE my car. I'll prepare the drone inside the car first, then quickly place the drone a few feet in front of the car and turn it on. Then I get back inside the car and wait for the right time to take off, with the least people nearby. This only recommended with Lightbridge/OcuSync equipped drones. I can usually fly up to a mile away from inside the car. If by chance a LEO shows up and starts looking around, I'll park the drone in the sky 300' high near the sun where most difficult to see, then drive my car blocks away to retrieve the drone (I've only had to do that once). If you ever have to do that, point the camera at the COP car so you can see if he leaves, or where he goes, after you drive away. Also, even when you don't suspect a LEO is in the area when landing in a busy area, look around your area with your drone camera for COP cars. You can see much better from up high than from inside your car. It's best to avoid versus confront.

I liked some your post, but the lying part to the LEO and wierd antics to get away from Cops reads like someone who really doesn’t care where they fly, legal or not. If you say you were just getting ready to fly when he watched you directly flying before he spoke with you, you will most likely be seeing a judge. Also flying in such a way that you are obviously out of VLOS isnt the best idea, but we all know that. Other than that, the suggestion of flying stealth and not from one’s own house were good recommendations, within reason. Hiding in bushes to fly and all that avoiding the cops stuff made me laugh. One should wear a ghillie suit when they do all that also!