The BIG GNSS (GPS) Issue -- The Constructive Thread

[GadgetGuy]

Further data points. Definitely some lingering around the 9-12 sat point still but it could be yesterday's test was an outlier. Today's cold start in a more hospitable location (only small portions of the sky blocked) was about 2 minutes. Did a warm start on a street with plenty of tall buildings all around and it did admirably. About 1 min.

All in, if the 15 minutes I had yesterday was an outlier, I'm good. Stability is still phenomenal.

I suspect the previous workarounds of a power cycling at 8 or 9 satellites will still speed up the cold start Home Point setting process, or just immediately ascending to 96 feet, to allow the Home Point to be acquired from a higher elevation. Can't hurt to try either, if anyone is still having problems.

 

[Mokus]

Maybe that's the problem

Prompt information - DJI FORUM

,DJI FORUM

forum.dji.com

 

[ianwood]

Maybe that's the problem

Prompt information - DJI FORUM

,DJI FORUM

forum.dji.com

There are more holes in that guy's claims than Swiss cheese.

 

[sar104]

There are more holes in that guy's claims than Swiss cheese.

Can you expand on that? Whether or not it is correct, it actually looks like a moderately credible hypothesis.

 

[ianwood]

Can you expand on that? Whether or not it is correct, it actually looks like a moderately credible hypothesis.

I thought so at first and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Didn't wash. Most importantly he referenced a thread on this forum that didn't reveal what he said it revealed. More details here:

Airsense Not Working - DJI Inadequate Response

Coincidence and cause/effect can both provide an explanation. What's unsupported is the idea that the addition of intelligent flight features causes the memory problem. Do the intelligent flight features use memory in the GPS module immediately on startup? And why would that increase satellite...

mavicpilots.com

 

[sar104]

I thought so at first and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Didn't wash. Most importantly he referenced a thread on this forum that didn't reveal what he said it revealed. More details here:

Airsense Not Working - DJI Inadequate Response

Coincidence and cause/effect can both provide an explanation. What's unsupported is the idea that the addition of intelligent flight features causes the memory problem. Do the intelligent flight features use memory in the GPS module immediately on startup? And why would that increase satellite...

mavicpilots.com

Are you sure that he wasn't referring to this thread/post that noted what appeared to be a missing non-volatile memory chip?

 

[ianwood]

Are you sure that he wasn't referring to this thread/post that noted what appeared to be a missing non-volatile memory chip?

Yes, he is referring to that thread. The issue is that he asserts the thread discovers a change in the "memory architecture" between the KA and KT variants of the M8030 uBlox chip. Which it obviously doesn't. He does refer to the unpopulated chip much much later in his thread on the DJI forum but that in and of itself ins't evidence of anything. We can speculate that the additional memory is needed for normal ephemeris functions but it is just that. Speculation. Unpopulated chips are not entirely uncommon either.

He also links the functionality of hyperlapse and master shots as being why the December update caused the problem. I don't see that anywhere nor does it make any sense.

EDIT: No doubt, @beermat made some very interesting evaluations on the GNSS board. I really appreciate him doing that. But I think he would also agree, we have not discovered a smoking gun with respect to the slow boot times on the Mavic 3 and why they're so different and got worse in Dec.

 

[sar104]

Yes, he is referring to that thread. The issue is that he asserts the thread discovers a change in the "memory architecture" between the KA and KT variants of the M8030 uBlox chip. Which it obviously doesn't. He does refer to the unpopulated chip much much later in his thread on the DJI forum but that in and of itself ins't evidence of anything. We can speculate that the additional memory is needed for normal ephemeris functions but it is just that. Speculation. Unpopulated chips are not entirely uncommon either.

He also links the functionality of hyperlapse and master shots as being why the December update caused the problem. I don't see that anywhere nor does it make any sense.

EDIT: No doubt, @beermat made some very interesting evaluations on the GNSS board. I really appreciate him doing that. But I think he would also agree, we have not discovered a smoking gun with respect to the slow boot times on the Mavic 3 and why they're so different and got worse in Dec.

Oh I agree that there is nothing definitive here, but there is also nothing that disproves the hypothesis mentioned above. I don't see how it can be ruled out based on any other existing information.

 

[Suren]

Oh I agree that there is nothing definitive here, but there is also nothing that disproves the hypothesis mentioned above. I don't see how it can be ruled out based on any other existing information.

Thats exactly what I said in that forum but everyone seems (Mod Removed Language)bent on calling that OP a liar yet no one there can prove that he is incorrect or correct.

 

[sar104]

Thats exactly what I said in that forum but everyone seems (Mod Removed Language)bent on calling that OP a liar yet no one there can prove that he is incorrect or correct.

Is it consistent with whatever additional information you got directly from DJI?

 

[Suren]

Is it consistent with whatever additional information you got directly from DJI?

Dji did not go into depth with any explanations the way this OP went deep into it. All Dji said to me was they acknowledged the issue and are working to resolve it. They gave a basic answer. This OP seems to have a direct contact in Dji( he shared the contact with me and I verified it) who shares information with him including beta firmware and inside information on some new products. According to that OP, his contact confirmed everything he posted and I have read conversations between the 2 around this GPS issues and how Dji is struggling to find a proper solution to it. His contact, based in his profile etc is very reputable.

 

[ianwood]

Thats exactly what I said in that forum but everyone seems (Mod Removed Language)bent on calling that OP a liar yet no one there can prove that he is incorrect or correct.

The problems start with the title and get worse within the first few paragraphs. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Asked him if he could back up the information he is presenting as proof of the cause. He couldn't. Made completely misleading statements about beermat's thread and has changed his story more than once about where he is getting his info.





Beermat's posts are useful and interesting but they don't prove anything. Had this guy presented it even remotely accurately and said it is unproven, I would have zero issue with it.

 

[Suren]

The problems start with the title and get worse within the first few paragraphs. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Asked him if he could back up the information he is presenting as proof of the cause. He couldn't. Made completely misleading statements about beermat's thread and has changed his story more than once about where he is getting his info.

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Beermat's posts are useful and interesting but they don't prove anything. Had this guy presented it even remotely accurately and said it is unproven, I would have zero issue with it.

Understood but like all humans they saw a 30cm snake but by the time it gets to the 30th person it was a 30 meter man eating killer snake. Like I said in that post to everyone, take the information with a pinch of salt. I highly doubt someone or anyone for that fact will spend so much time typing such a long dialogue just to be wrong. What is said around the gps module does make sense and not only to me but to a lot of guys including some very intelligent folks. We are not saying it is 100% factual but there maybe some truth in there as well.

 

[ianwood]

If you want a very good breakdown of the issues with AerialZup2's post, read MacAngler's post:

Prompt information - DJI FORUM

,DJI FORUM

forum.dji.com

MadAngler has been reliable in breaking down at a detail level SOC level details. Watch his video on Occusync versions and chips. I learned a ton from it.

 

[Suren]

If you want a very good breakdown of the issues with AerialZup2's post, read MacAngler's post:

Prompt information - DJI FORUM

,DJI FORUM

forum.dji.com

MadAngler has been reliable in breaking down at a detail level SOC level details. Watch his video on Occusync versions and chips. I learned a ton from it.

Yup, I read all his replies and towards the end, even he is now uncertain if this issue could be hardware related or software and is doubtful if this can be fixed 100%.

 

[ianwood]

Understood but like all humans they saw a 30cm snake but by the time it gets to the 30th person it was a 30 meter man eating killer snake. Like I said in that post to everyone, take the information with a pinch of salt. I highly doubt someone or anyone for that fact will spend so much time typing such a long dialogue just to be wrong. What is said around the gps module does make sense and not only to me but to a lot of guys including some very intelligent folks. We are not saying it is 100% factual but there maybe some truth in there as well.

Again, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Considered the 30 meter snake and it didn't add up. Too many erroneous claims. Mad Angler, who I have corresponded on other forums with for years, sums it up far better than I did.

 

[ZoneAerial]

Yup, I read all his replies and towards the end, even he is now uncertain if this issue could be hardware related or software and is doubtful if this can be fixed 100%.

Since it is going on 4 months into the problem, I think it is pretty clear this is a hardware issue. Mad Angler says he knows DJI folks. Why doesn’t he have an explanation other than “might be hardware”?

 

[ianwood]

Yup, I read all his replies and towards the end, even he is now uncertain if this issue could be hardware related or software and is doubtful if this can be fixed 100%.

Which is entirely fair. It would appear the root cause is not public knowledge. It may never be. Often the case with DJI. Everything you have read is speculation. I would recommend taking AerialZup2's claims of proof and insider knowledge with a health grain of salt at this point.

 

[Suren]

Which is entirely fair. It would appear the root cause is not public knowledge. It may never be. Often the case with DJI. Everything you have read is speculation. I would recommend taking AerialZup2's claims of proof and insider knowledge with a health grain of salt at this point.

You are correct. ATM everything is just speculation without any proof, I alway take things with extra salt, that's why I get so sick

 

[ZoneAerial]

Which is entirely fair. It would appear the root cause is not public knowledge. It may never be. Often the case with DJI. Everything you have read is speculation. I would recommend taking AerialZup2's claims of proof and insider knowledge with a health grain of salt at this point.

Who cares? if they can’t fix it then I’d just as well believe him as I would Mad Angler. And the only people who know the real issue (DJI) obviously aren’t telling what’s up. That forum is an unmitigated disaster.