Threatened with Jail for Drone Mapping, North Carolina

[GFields]

NEW BERN, N.C.—Last Friday, Judge Louise W. Flanagan of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina upheld a North Carolina restriction on who can create aerial maps against a First Amendment challenge brought by a Goldsboro, N.C., drone operator and the Institute for Justice (IJ).


For years, the state’s land-surveying board has targeted small-time drone operators, claiming their maps and models amount to illegal “surveying.” In its decision on Friday, the court approved the board’s position. The court acknowledged that “the use of drones to capture images for the purpose of conveying ‘orthomosaic’ or ‘measurable’ information is protected expression.” Even so, the court ruled that North Carolina can punish drone operators if they create and share even basic information about land without first getting a land-surveyor license.

Continue Reading Here, https://ij.org/press-release/north-carolina-drone-operator-to-appeal-in-first-amendment-lawsuit/

It goes without saying, that this could bleed over into other states, just like the ban on DJI Drones. We must figure out a way to fight this.

 

[Kuiper Denizen]

NEW BERN, N.C.—Last Friday, Judge Louise W. Flanagan of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina upheld a North Carolina restriction on who can create aerial maps against a First Amendment challenge brought by a Goldsboro, N.C., drone operator and the Institute for Justice (IJ).


For years, the state’s land-surveying board has targeted small-time drone operators, claiming their maps and models amount to illegal “surveying.” In its decision on Friday, the court approved the board’s position. The court acknowledged that “the use of drones to capture images for the purpose of conveying ‘orthomosaic’ or ‘measurable’ information is protected expression.” Even so, the court ruled that North Carolina can punish drone operators if they create and share even basic information about land without first getting a land-surveyor license.

Continue Reading Here, https://ij.org/press-release/north-carolina-drone-operator-to-appeal-in-first-amendment-lawsuit/

It goes without saying, that this could bleed over into other states, just like the ban on DJI Drones. We must figure out a way to fight this.

Where should we who agree line up? Just wringing our hands will do squat!

 

[GFields]

Where should we who agree line up? Just wringing our hands will do squat!

I'm not sure what we can do right now. I donated to the non-profit law group that is representing him. [I am not soliciting donations]. Just didn't know what else to do for now.

 

[Geofff]

Does that mean that measuring a path or area on Google earth or similar would also be surveying without a licence or is it the making an orthomosaic the issue? If so, could a top down image be considered a map? Very strange law.

 

[BigAl07]

Does that mean that measuring a path or area on Google earth or similar would also be surveying without a licence or is it the making an orthomosaic the issue? If so, could a top down image be considered a map? Very strange law.

It's about providing "Survey Grade" DATA without having the credentials to verify/back it up. Fact of the matter is there are some "Professionals" who feel very threatened by this new technology and they have complained to their "Governing Body". It just happens that group has the $$ and POWER to cause such an absurd claim.

If this goes through against Michael, it could have one heck of a ripple effect throughout our hobby/industry.

 

[AMann]

Hide your RTK equipment before they see it. if this continues, people will need a surveyors license to purchase and use them.

 

[StevenBrodsky]

Unbelievable. It's like when Uber threatened the taxi market. Lawsuits in almost every state occured. Luckily Uber had money.

 

[jaja6009]

I map extensively for the city I work for, which is perfectly legal.
We know what my data can and cannot be used for.

In the field I have met with derision, hostility and might I say snootiness from a few surveyors I have run into.
Even when I asked the head field crew person (Not even the surveyor), what RTK corrections service they were using and how close the mountpoint was, this was met with an air of superiority that bordered on almost literally turning a nose in the air.


So I can easily see where this comes from.

Again, some functions of a surveyor are 100% only to be done by a surveyor with the economic and legal consequences of incorrect data too great to ignore.

What North Carolina is doing though is absurd.

If what they say is held up, then a real estate photograph from a drone is in violation.
Hopefully common sense will prevail and a common ground can be met.
If some function can be found online (Google, County property maps with property lines, measurements, 3D models and a large amount of similar data) then a drone mapper should be able to produce something similar with a proper disclaimer.

Construction progression with an orthophoto is not surveying. It is a timeline of images that allow for basic measurements that can overlay each other perfectly and have a resolution that gives a client the best possible aerial view of the time of their choosing.

 

[Yaros]

Very sad to see the drone hobby turn into a mess when it comes to the public view and perception...

 

[jjbbrewer]

From this article - Drone Mapping and Unlicensed Land Surveying Lawsuit

"As Michael would learn, the Board has said that drawing lines on images of land to approximate property lines is the practice of land surveying."

Redfin uses pictures like this in a lot of their ads. I wonder if the surveyors are going to go after them as well?

 

[Kuiper Denizen]

NEW BERN, N.C.—Last Friday, Judge Louise W. Flanagan of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina upheld a North Carolina restriction on who can create aerial maps against a First Amendment challenge brought by a Goldsboro, N.C., drone operator and the Institute for Justice (IJ).


For years, the state’s land-surveying board has targeted small-time drone operators, claiming their maps and models amount to illegal “surveying.” In its decision on Friday, the court approved the board’s position. The court acknowledged that “the use of drones to capture images for the purpose of conveying ‘orthomosaic’ or ‘measurable’ information is protected expression.” Even so, the court ruled that North Carolina can punish drone operators if they create and share even basic information about land without first getting a land-surveyor license.

Continue Reading Here, https://ij.org/press-release/north-carolina-drone-operator-to-appeal-in-first-amendment-lawsuit/

It goes without saying, that this could bleed over into other states, just like the ban on DJI Drones. We must figure out a way to fight this.

After reading the posts through the morning of 2/6/24, as mentioned or suggested by several forum members, it would seem adding a simple disclaimer pointing out that “the drone map was not compiled by a state licensed surveyor and should not be used as a verified on-ground-measurement and definition of boundaries“ would be fair, if such is the case.

After all, if G.P.S. coordinates being used to set corners, we have to recognize that they can vary by several yards in any direction.

Drone operators who are working commercially have had to go through Part 107 training, testing, and certification. I’m sure everyone of them would object very strenuously, and rightly so, to a recreational flyer trying to duplicate their work unlicensed.

Maybe we need to consider that the training, testing, and certification a licensed surveyor has completed (I expect much more strenuous than the rigors of Part 107) might give them an equal right to demand respect and protection for their work.

I expect the penalty a surveyor pays for a mistake, or just defending the accusation of one, is hefty enough to require the purchase of errors and omission insurance.

I haven’t done any mapping and am unfamiliar with the software, so my assumption about the accuracy of drone mapping is just that, an assumption. Nonetheless, the droning community should respect that surveyors are doing what we do, protecting their community and its profession.

In the long run the two should be allies. The two professions are complementary, not duplicating, and could be adding to the work that both do for their clients, thus enhancing each other and the final product.

We should always be wary of establishing a circular firing squad. I expect they do more damage than any other competition.

No one is left standing in the former!

 

[jjbbrewer]

After all, if G.P.S. coordinates being used to set corners, we have to recognize that they can vary by several yards in any direction.

That's not true if you're using SBAS located GCPs and/or RTK/PPK location data.

Dylan Gorman documents a drone survey job in North Carolina where he was "working with" a survey company. I'm not sure what all that entails, but it seems like a better model that going to court and suing each other.

 

[BigAl07]

Here are some points I want to add to this conversation:

A) It doesn't matter who/what company you are working for when doing this. If you are providing DATA that is considered "Survey Material" you will have to have it signed off by a Licensed Surveyor. That's like saying, "I'm doing clinical work for my city but I don't need to be a Dr." If this goes through that is the end result. The mere process of gathering and delivering the DATA will be the "Crime" regardless of who you are working for. Of course, in that instance no one is likely to know one way or the other. Let's just hope it does NOT go against us.

B) Adding a disclaimer has no effect on the end result. It's been noted that adding that disclaimer in no way changes anything. Once again, that's like giving "Medical Advice" and handing them a note saying, "I'm not a doctor and this is NOT medical advice.". In the eyes of the court system and in our warped society this makes no difference.

I'm just REALLY hoping this does our (as in all of us in this industry) way or it's going to cause some serious "waves" across the US for many of us.

 

[StevenBrodsky]

Here is a good article posted by DRONE LIFE on Jan 24, 2024, explaining the situation and clarifyingwhat's going on here....

Is Drone Mapping a First Amendment Right? This NC Lawsuit Has Major Implications for the Commercial Drone Industry

Is Drone Mapping the Same as Surveying, Which Requires a License and Board Certification? Institute for Justice Advocates for First Amendment Rights in North Carolina Drone Case In a recent developmen

dronelife.com