Tight landing space onboard a tall ship

[Pieter Einthoven]

Steve,
Hand launching and catching is definitely the way to go. You can not land on a moving platform. The catching handle makes it much easier and safer to do this. Until you get very good at it, I would have one person with the control sticks and a different person launching/catching it. You can launch off the back, just reach though the gap in the rigging in the back. One person is holding the drone over the back, the other starts up the props and commands a climb. When the drone holder feels the drone tugging up, he lets go. It takes a few seconds to get the drone under good control after you let it go, that is why launching from the back is so important if the boat is moving. Sometimes mine just climbs uncommanded for a bit. Due to the rigging on the boat, I don’t know that you can recover to the back. It might work but it is tight. You might have to come up to the rear quarter. Pick the side where the drone and boat automatically separate when you let go of the drone controls. That way if the approach is not going well, you can just let the drone hover, separate and try again. The catching person is going to have to grab it out of the sky as the other person is flying to slowly close with the moving boat. As soon as the catcher has caught the drone, they turn it sideways which stops the propellers. Otherwise the drone is very angry and trying to fly away.

A few other details. Turn off obstacle avoidance, otherwise you cannot get close to the boat, many people approach the boat backwards so that left stick moves the drone left (my MPP also has no obstacle detection in the back), set it to update the homepoint as you move. Turn off the setting that limits your distance from the launch point. The active track is nice to keep the camera pointed to the boat but it does limit the speed and it does not do a good job keeping the drone ahead of the boat if you are getting a picture from the front. So you can use it but don’t expect it to keep up with the boat. It also limits the speed of the drone to about 20 knots which might not be enough to overcome boat speed plus windspeed.

Practice the hand launch/catch on the ground first, then on the boat when it is not moving, then finally when it is moving. Trading experience for increased risk.

I have done this a lot. The resuts are well worth the effort.

 

[MA2 317]

This crew makes it look easy to launch from a boat.

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.

 

[Tufargon]

MA2 317" data-source="post: 1553741" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

This crew makes it look easy to launch from a boat.

.

.

Just after it started I thought "OK, how in the heck will they get it back?". I'm not gonna try that any time soon

 

[BRDVPRA]

I have done this on a smaller less feasible sailboat to be honest. Everything mentioned is good stuff....

1. For me this ended up being, a two person operation and one person needs thick leather gloves.
2. I ended up using zip ties in a pinch to essentially create a hand on the drone that hung down a foot for so. I was flying a MP and when you flip it up side down while running it shuts off..... I just didn't have a spot that made sense to try with all the guide wires going everywhere.
3. Getting it to boot up on the boat was a challenge.... you know don't move the drone while the drone starts and of course the boat is moving. I didn't have magnetic interference issues, but the boat was mainly wood.
4. Return home is worthless while the boat is moving. Don't try to use it.
5. We ended up getting it to boot up and then the other person hand launched it from the side of the boat. While they are holding it, get it running throttle it up and out and have them let it go.
6. Fly your mission while leaving 40% or so of the battery left to start landing. You just don't know how many attempts you might need.
7. As mentioned above back it into the landing. Think about the direction and speed of the boat at the time too... We ended it bringing it to the side of the boat while the boat was cruising 7 ish knots.
8. I have cinne sticks on the controller. They are amazing for flying, but suck at start up and shutoff. Always a trade off
9. I backed it into the landing area, the drone kept trying to go up while the guy tried to catch it, so I had to turn all the safety sensors off.
10. The guy caught the zip tie handle, I could not get it to shut off with the sticks, so I told him to sling it up side down and of course that was over the water. Drone shut off and he easily retrieved it.

Would I do it again? Well probably if I had the right help! Good luck and you are doing the right thing by asking and thinking the process through!

Good luck!

 

[tlyons]

I checked out the ship today via. It's doable. View attachment 164270View attachment 164271

The thing in the 2nd picture is called a running backstay. There are two. They are moved around under way to balance the forestay tension, Usually, the windward one goes forward and the leeward one aft. It does not stay in one place. Just to starboard of it is the sheet. That is continuously adjusted to trim the mizzen sail.

When the boat tacks, the positions of the backstays swap as the boom swings through that area with a crew person hauling on the sheet. Yes, the stern can be clear of line when running downwind, but reaching or close hauled there will be lots of lines there. When the boat tacks or gybes they are all moving at once with people adjusting them. Hauling up or falling off, again, all those lines are moving and under hundreds of pounds of force with crew adjusting as they go.

Standing in the middle of that is the helmsman driving the boat and in that size boat probably directing the crew.

And you plan to stand in the middle of that and fly a drone. Does the skipper know about this?

 

[GadgetGuy]

Lol, I did this Vietnam on a boat and watched my drone crash and I couldn't understand why until attempt # 3.

My first hand-launched glider flight some 30 years ago was from a roof deck, and was foolishly thrown downwind over a canyon, where it immediately dropped into the wind-shadow of my 3 story house, and promptly crashed into the neighbors back yard! Gliders must be hand-thrown into the wind! Live and learn!

 

[GadgetGuy]

MA2 317" data-source="post: 1553741" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

This crew makes it look easy to launch from a boat.

.

.

The Phantom drones all came with built-in grab handles!
That's what made it far easier!

 

[stevebarnes]

This will always be VERY risky... the chances that you will crash or lose your drone is huge & that cost needs to be compared to what you can gain/earn from the video/pics.

Thing's to consider...

Powering on the drone near magnetic interference = later yaw error on height

Taking off from a moving platform = the drone will maintain position when airborne, so will travel aft relative the boat immediately after take off.

Obstacle detection = if left on, with all obstacles around it will be hard to not get unexpected automated flight directions when leaving the boat & even harder to get it back over the boat for a landing.

VPS sensors = usually not able to turn them off, may prevent the last automated touch down. Hand catching is recommended (& hand launching).

HP = The HP will be fixed but the boat will continue & leave the area

RTH = As the HP isn't where the boat will be located when the drone returns the HP & RTH can't be used.

Loss of control signal = See HP & RTH above. The failsafe action that should be used is Hover.

the failsafe of Hover is of course a good recommendation! I have commitments from the boat:
1. passengers will put phones into flight mode
2. the rear deck will be cleared of people apart from the one at the wheel
3. No bags etc on the stern, it will be kept totally clear.

I have a hand takeoff stick on order that will extend from the bottom of the drone. I will have launch and hand retrieve. I will be practicing doing this from a moving boat during daytime before doing it at night.

 

[MS Coast]

1. passengers will put phones into flight mode

Why?

 

[MS Coast]

MA2 317" data-source="post: 1553741" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

This crew makes it look easy to launch from a boat.

.

.

The video of the boat is astonishing. It made my stomach knot up a bit thinking about having that much sail up in those sea conditions.

This definitely does not made the drone operation look easy. Note that the fellow at the helm nearly got a face full of propellers. The launch looks like a piece of extremely good luck. A collision with the mainsail or boom could have easily happened.

The drone almost certain took some salt spray during launch and recovery. But flying a drone like that very often means that you're not going to be dealing with long-term issues anyway.

 

[tlyons]

The video of the boat is astonishing. It made my stomach knot up a bit thinking about having that much sail up in those sea conditions.

This definitely does not made the drone operation look easy. Note that the fellow at the helm nearly got a face full of propellers. The launch looks like a piece of extremely good luck. A collision with the mainsail or boom could have easily happened.

The drone almost certain took some salt spray during launch and recovery. But flying a drone like that very often means that you're not going to be dealing with long-term issues anyway.

The conditions aren't really that bad; note the relatively flat seas and few whitecaps and little spume. A force 3, maybe 4. But the boat is very loaded up and moving fast and sending lots of spray in the air. That's a wet boat.

Of course if the helmsman got a prop in face and jammed the wheel or even just let go, you could easily pitch pole. Anyone know enough Swedish to report what the helmsman said in the last moment of the video as the drone pilot used the helmsman's arm as a prop brake?

I bet it was something like, "Congrats on a great flight! Sorry my arm got in your way."

 

[MS Coast]

The conditions aren't really that bad; note the relatively flat seas and few whitecaps and little spume. A force 3, maybe 4. But the boat is very loaded up and moving fast and sending lots of spray in the air. That's a wet boat.

Of course if the helmsman got a prop in face and jammed the wheel or even just let go, you could easily pitch pole. Anyone know enough Swedish to report what the helmsman said in the last moment of the video as the drone pilot used the helmsman's arm as a prop brake?

I bet it was something like, "Congrats on a great flight! Sorry my arm got in your way."

Unrelated to drones:

The conditions are not extreme, but the boat is definitely being pushed hard. But the sea state for Force 3 winds is described as "large wavelets." I see something significantly more than wavelets. I'd estimate Force 5.

Related to drones:

The pilot did some fine flying to capture that video. But I think they were lucky to recover the drone without an incident. And I suspect that it got a good dose of salt spray.

Next time, there's a rainy day I'll have a look to see if that same crew published more drone videos. Interesting stuff.

 

[stevebarnes]

Why?

I had a crime go down over water once and always wondered if it was jammed. It just stopped responding.

 

[stevebarnes]

Are you proposing bringing your 4 whirling bladed drone to that space directly in front of or to the side of the helmsman? Does the skipper know you want to do this?

Maybe less important than blinding or injuring the person steering the 60 tons of boat through a crowded harbor, those lines and spars are all constantly *moving* when underway, they won't be in the positions shown. And the sails will be raised, probably. The wind direction is changing constantly and no way can you happily assume the wind will come from any particular direction; sailboats can go upwind, downwind or across the wind whether you stand on the stern or bow or beam of the boat.

Finally, to appearances, you will be landing and flying within 5-8 feet of other non-participating passengers. Is that OK in Australia? It would certainly get you arrested most places.

This is very different than hand launching from a small private boat with the skipper steering to make it easy for you and other people on the boat are friends who have agreed to jump out of your way. Unless the ship has hired you and will steer for your convenience and clear an open space on deck, stop worrying about yourself or your drone and worry about everyone else. Even then, a 60 ton boat basically can't maneuver around for the ease of your droning.

If they have hired you, then get a small chase boat. An 18 ft skiff with an outboard motor would be far better and there is no reason to do anything actually on the big boat.

They have asked me to do it. I've thought about a retrieval boat and will check on that.

 

[stevebarnes]

I have done this on a smaller less feasible sailboat to be honest. Everything mentioned is good stuff....

1. For me this ended up being, a two person operation and one person needs thick leather gloves.
2. I ended up using zip ties in a pinch to essentially create a hand on the drone that hung down a foot for so. I was flying a MP and when you flip it up side down while running it shuts off..... I just didn't have a spot that made sense to try with all the guide wires going everywhere.
3. Getting it to boot up on the boat was a challenge.... you know don't move the drone while the drone starts and of course the boat is moving. I didn't have magnetic interference issues, but the boat was mainly wood.
4. Return home is worthless while the boat is moving. Don't try to use it.
5. We ended up getting it to boot up and then the other person hand launched it from the side of the boat. While they are holding it, get it running throttle it up and out and have them let it go.
6. Fly your mission while leaving 40% or so of the battery left to start landing. You just don't know how many attempts you might need.
7. As mentioned above back it into the landing. Think about the direction and speed of the boat at the time too... We ended it bringing it to the side of the boat while the boat was cruising 7 ish knots.
8. I have cinne sticks on the controller. They are amazing for flying, but suck at start up and shutoff. Always a trade off
9. I backed it into the landing area, the drone kept trying to go up while the guy tried to catch it, so I had to turn all the safety sensors off.
10. The guy caught the zip tie handle, I could not get it to shut off with the sticks, so I told him to sling it up side down and of course that was over the water. Drone shut off and he easily retrieved it.

Would I do it again? Well probably if I had the right help! Good luck and you are doing the right thing by asking and thinking the process through!

Good luck!

I just found this too. One tip I had not considered: maximum flight distance!

 

[stevebarnes]

They have asked me to do it. I've thought about a retrieval boat and will check on that.

I have visited the boat. Skipper and crew will be fully briefed. It's come from the top of the organization.

 

[stevebarnes]

Steve,
Hand launching and catching is definitely the way to go. You can not land on a moving platform. The catching handle makes it much easier and safer to do this. Until you get very good at it, I would have one person with the control sticks and a different person launching/catching it. You can launch off the back, just reach though the gap in the rigging in the back. One person is holding the drone over the back, the other starts up the props and commands a climb. When the drone holder feels the drone tugging up, he lets go. It takes a few seconds to get the drone under good control after you let it go, that is why launching from the back is so important if the boat is moving. Sometimes mine just climbs uncommanded for a bit. Due to the rigging on the boat, I don’t know that you can recover to the back. It might work but it is tight. You might have to come up to the rear quarter. Pick the side where the drone and boat automatically separate when you let go of the drone controls. That way if the approach is not going well, you can just let the drone hover, separate and try again. The catching person is going to have to grab it out of the sky as the other person is flying to slowly close with the moving boat. As soon as the catcher has caught the drone, they turn it sideways which stops the propellers. Otherwise the drone is very angry and trying to fly away.

A few other details. Turn off obstacle avoidance, otherwise you cannot get close to the boat, many people approach the boat backwards so that left stick moves the drone left (my MPP also has no obstacle detection in the back), set it to update the homepoint as you move. Turn off the setting that limits your distance from the launch point. The active track is nice to keep the camera pointed to the boat but it does limit the speed and it does not do a good job keeping the drone ahead of the boat if you are getting a picture from the front. So you can use it but don’t expect it to keep up with the boat. It also limits the speed of the drone to about 20 knots which might not be enough to overcome boat speed plus windspeed.

Practice the hand launch/catch on the ground first, then on the boat when it is not moving, then finally when it is moving. Trading experience for increased risk.

I have done this a lot. The resuts are well worth the effort.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

 

[stevebarnes]

Go for it.

You should, of course, heed the advice given by @slup and @Yorkshire_Pud . Can you do a couple of attempts while the ship isn't moving?

I'll go out on a local vessel with a rear deck on the Huon River to test it in daytime. I;ll tst DLOG at max ISO in the evening, then do another test on a local vessel after dark. Then I will be prepared!

 

[GadgetGuy]

One more for good measure!

Drone Flying Tips from an "Expert" — Sailing Uma [Step 283]

 

[stevebarnes]

One more for good measure!

Drone Flying Tips from an "Expert" — Sailing Uma [Step 283]

They caught them all without a handle on the Mavics.