Toronto Mavic Owner: where can I fly?

[drone111]

Disclaimer: This might be a full and complete list and you should do your own research on accuracy and to make sure your obeying all laws.

Airspace does not, HOWEVER a lot of people think there are no laws and that's just incorrect. From my readings, if you fly in a way that endangers others then you break the car's and subjected to the criminal code. Eg. IF you take a drone mini and fly it over YYZ, what do you think will happen to you? It won't matter if you claim your drone is less than 250g but I hope this is a given. Also, local laws (bylaws) and there are a lot of them and very specific to each place - but a lot of bylaws say any "remote piloted aircraft" can take off from within a park. They don't specify any weights but just say if it is something that fly's and remotely piloted. SO again you can't claim 250g. Disclaimer: This might not be a full and accuracy might not be complete list, just some i'm aware of knowing.

For what its worth ... if the sky's start buzzing with these things you better believe the 250g limit will be removed and it will be any RPA between 0 -> 25kg. I highly doubt transport canada will be like "oh well, 250g and under, let them fill the sky's" ... there will be to much pressure from the public (who already hate drones because of the media giving them a bad rep and some bad fliers) and things will change. By that time DJI would have made a ton of cash anyways.

Just my thoughts. Check and double check your laws but also your bylaws (which is where they get a lot of people)

 

[Mini6ix]

Airspace does not, HOWEVER a lot of people think there are no laws and that's just incorrect. From my readings, if you fly in a way that endangers others then you break the car's and subjected to the criminal code. Eg. IF you take a drone mini and fly it over YYZ, what do you think will happen to you? It won't matter if you claim your drone is less than 250g but I hope this is a given. Also, local laws (bylaws) and there are a lot of them and very specific to each place - but a lot of bylaws say any "remote piloted aircraft" can take off from within a park. They don't specify any weights but just say if it is something that fly's and remotely piloted. SO again you can't claim 250g. Disclaimer: This might not be a full and complete list, just some i'm aware of knowing.

For what its worth ... if the sky's start buzzing with these things you better believe the 250g limit will be removed and it will be any RPA between 0 -> 25kg. I highly doubt transport canada will be like "oh well, 250g and under, let them fill the sky's" ... there will be to much pressure from the public (who already hate drones because of the media giving them a bad rep and some bad fliers) and things will change. By that time DJI would have made a ton of cash anyways.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the reply... My lack of knowledge was behind my question so I do not make an informed decision. I know being below 250 changes nothing other than it does not need to be registered but I just wanted to confirm that meant that I could not fly it in a park .. as long as it was not in a NFZ.

 

[drone111]

Actually I believe the 250g and below changes a lot ... Eg: I don't believe you need to fly VLOS but instead can use something like a viewing device, or you can fly over people which is very hard to do legally if your above 250g... It certainly would be nice if TC provided some clarity on it - however I feel like there are little or no regulations with them that they wouldn't want to broadcast that - guess well see!

 

[drone111]

This might help....

Source: Municipal Bylaws Impacting Drone Operations – Are They Legal? - Transport - Canada

Calgary, Alberta: Bylaws prohibiting the launch or operation in a park of “any remote control device including … planes” and prohibiting the operations of “model airplanes of any nature” from using a street for the “purposes of flying”;
Toronto, Ontario: Bylaw prohibiting the operation of ‘powered models of aircraft, rockets, watercraft, or vehicles’, unless authorized by permit;
Canmore, Alberta: Bylaw prohibiting the operation of drones in public parks, unless authorized by the chief administrative officer;
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan: Bylaw prohibiting the use of any “model aircraft or unmanned aerial vehicles” in any park or recreation facilities, except as permitted by the City;
Mississauga, Ontario: Bylaw prohibiting the operation in a park of “any remote-controlled or other powered devices, including but not limited to, model versions of aircraft, rockets, watercraft and vehicles, other than in a designated area, unless authorized by permit”;
Hamilton, Ontario: Bylaw prohibiting the operation in a park of ”any powered models of aircraft, rockets, watercraft or any ground vehicle, unless authorized by permit”;
Richmond, British Columbia: Bylaw prohibiting flying radio-controlled, fixed-line-controlled or power-launched model aircraft or gliders in public parks or school grounds; and
Morden, Manitoba: Bylaw limiting “powered model aircraft and vehicle” usage within the city limits, unless used for advertising, marketing or film production with the approval of the City Managers.

 

[drone111]

Just to add - for what its wroth - What these bylaws force people to do if you can't fly in a park is to take off on a busy sidewalk just outside the park and fly into it.

 

[Deleted member 109934]

Air guns below 499fps do not require a permit, buy one in Canadian Tire and go to HighPark or downtown and start plinking...
We all know how this will end up: SWAT team, helicopters, dogs, police, armored vehicles, closed streets... you most likely not going to make it for dinner...

I double dear you: don't even shoot, walk with one into the subway...Technically you do not break any laws, just walking with air rifle...let's see how far... That would be a good time to fly your drone, as the drone will be the list of your worries...(sarcasm)

Take a soccer ball or basketball and 10 of your friends and start playing the "local NBA" match close to CN tower... security will be there in 2 minutes...

We have winter now: try to take a hockey stick and play in front of any Wallmart or street...

If you are planning to fly this drone in Highpark on Sunday at 12PM in the middle of the kid's playground even 2m above ground, you might make a lot of parents upset...

I think everyone gets the idea...if not, please do not buy the drone, you do not have what it takes to own the toy, it happens...pick up swimming, don't drown yourself...

Just because something does not require license or registration does not mean we can now go and fly all over the city, use common sense and don't be that guy...

We flew drones today in Bluffs (cliffside), you still have to be super careful with other people and respect them, there is a lot of triggered people those days...

Happy safe flying.

 

[drone111]

Air guns below 499fps do not require a permit, buy one in Canadian Tire and go to HighPark or downtown and start plinking...
We all know how this will end up: SWAT team, helicopters, dogs, police, armored vehicles, closed streets... you most likely not going to make it for dinner...

I double dear you: don't even shoot, walk with one into the subway...Technically you do not break any laws, just walking with air rifle...let's see how far... That would be a good time to fly your drone, as the drone will be the list of your worries...(sarcasm)

Take a soccer ball or basketball and 10 of your friends and start playing the "local NBA" match close to CN tower... security will be there in 2 minutes...

We have winter now: try to take a hockey stick and play in front of any Wallmart or street...

If you are planning to fly this drone in Highpark on Sunday at 12PM in the middle of the kid's playground even 2m above ground, you might make a lot of parents upset...

I think everyone gets the idea...if not, please do not buy the drone, you do not have what it takes to own the toy, it happens...pick up swimming, don't drown yourself...

Just because something does not require license or registration does not mean we can now go and fly all over the city, use common sense and don't be that guy...

We flew drones today in Bluffs (cliffside), you still have to be super careful with other people and respect them, there is a lot of triggered people those days...

Happy safe flying.



View attachment 85719

You have totally missed the point of this thread. The discussion was...what is legal. Looking at the CARs it appears the 249g done fits into 1 of them. All the others have a weight attached to them. The question then becomes...do these laws not apply to one that is 249g.

That doesn't mean that all of a sudden were all going to fly things is situations that are stupid and I'm not sure why you are implying that were all a bunch of idiots.

Use case:. You need to take some simple real estate photos where the house is in controlled airspace. Using a 249g drone for a listing is good enough. Now...do you need to get nav Canada's permission or not. This has nothing to do with air rifles.

You have a client that has a boat with 3 engines and 300hp each and wants you to film him in Lake Ontario across from his condo because he wanted to sell it and it costs more than most houses in the area. Again, do you need permission.

And on another note. I hold my advanced license and most people are not as triggered as you say. I've gone to shoots and tell people who might be in a shot what I'm about to do and how they will be Photoshopped out of the photo and they don't go running for the cops, they appreciate it and stay to check it out.

If someone did have a problem with it, then let them call the cops because I'm legally allowed to do my job and know all my requirements.

I don't think you've actually done this before because 1) you'll know you can't fly in highpark due to bylaws and 2) most people are curious and not triggered.

The recent conversation I had here is about knowing the laws of a drone that's under 249g.

 

[tangy07]

Do you know if this applies to the Mavic Mini as well ??

Yes it does. you just dont need to do the test that's all. Rules are still the same.

 

[FC_]

Do you know if this applies to the Mavic Mini as well ??

Yes it does. you just dont need to do the test that's all. Rules are still the same.

This sounds a bit contradictory, what rules are you referring to?

Transport Canada has already clarified that sub 250 gram drones don't have airspace restrictions.

Micro drones (under 250 grams)... do not fall into the basic or advanced operations categories. If you have a micro drone, you must never put people or aircraft in danger. Always fly responsibly.

The only rules that exist for this category of drone is to avoid reckless behaviour, such as endangering aircraft or people. So while you can fly pretty much "anywhere" that isn't restricted in the DJI app, don't be foolish and fly right next door to an airport, into a crowd of people, or between traffic.

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[tangy07]

This sounds a bit contradictory, what rules are you referring to?

Transport Canada has already clarified that sub 250 gram drones don't have airspace restrictions.


The only rules that exist for this category of drone is to avoid reckless behaviour, such as endangering aircraft or people. So while you can fly pretty much "anywhere" that isn't restricted in the DJI app, don't be foolish and fly right next door to an airport, into a crowd of people, or between traffic.

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You are correct. My bad. Just have to be away from airports and people.

 

[drone111]

Here is a more detailed response by TC:

900.06 applies to all RPAS regardless of weight.

Yes, sub 250g RPAs are not regulated under Subpart 1, 2 and 3 of Part IX. These are the only part that would not apply to sub 250g RPAs.

Sub 250g RPAs are aircraft under CARS 101 definitions and other Parts of CARs, like for restricted airspace, forest fire, the Aeronautic Act and 5.1 also applies to sub 250g RPA, being an aircraft.

If the airspace prohibits “aircraft” than it applies to sub 250 gram RPAS’s too. The wording of the 5.1 and/or forest fire NOTAM under 601.16 and 601.17 likely would prohibit sub 250 gram RPAS’s. Class F restricted airspace again it would depend on the wording i.e. prison Class F airspaces typically restrict “aircraft”.

Micro Drones less than 250 grams. The 250 g weight threshold was selected to mitigate the risk that a drone would pose to an aircraft and people on the ground, and is consistent the approach taken in several other countries, including the US.
The fact that DJI introduced a smaller drone does not change the evidence behind why Transport Canada chose the 250g cut-off, so there is no reason to open up the VLOS regulations in response to this. The only reason we would open up discussion of the weight cut-off is if new evidence came to light that there is a danger to people or aircraft.

a. CAR 900.06 No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person. This regulation applies to RPAS's less than 250 grams.

b. Pilots of micro drones weighing under 250 grams (g) are not required to register their drone or obtain a drone pilot certificate, but must fly in a way that does not endanger the safety of other aircraft or people.

c. All drone pilots are also subject to the Criminal Code as well as all provincial, territorial, and municipal laws governing areas such as privacy and trespassing. This applies to any size of drone used for any purpose.

d. Can a micro drone (less than 250 grams) fly in Class f or a 5.1? If the airspace prohibits “aircraft” than it applies to sub 250 gram RPAS’s too. The wording of the 5.1 and/or forest fire NOTAM under 601.16 and 601.17 likely would prohibit sub 250 gram RPAS’s. Class F restricted airspace again it would depend on the wording i.e. prison Class F airspaces typically restrict “aircraft” so this would restrict RPAS less than 250 grams.
To simplify the above a Micro drone (less than 250 grams) is an aircraft and cannot fly in a restricted airspace (Class F or a 5.1) or in airspace that prohibits aircraft.

e. Would an authorization be required to operate a less than 250g RPAS in Class C or D airspace (601.08 & 601.09)? Since the RPAS are not flying VFR/IFR these regs do not apply.

 

[njkuhne]

Hey MavicPilots, I just began blogging on the topic of where to fly in Ontario. Please check me out @ lookingtofly.ca

 

[FC_]

Hey MavicPilots, I just began blogging on the topic of where to fly in Ontario. Please check me out @ lookingtofly.ca

Very interesting about Rouge National Urban Park. It would be useful if you added an addendum in regards to sub 250 drones, which would allow you to fly within most of the airspace restrictions that prevent any real flying without a SFOC or RPAS in Toronto. It is interesting that you can't legally fly in a Toronto park, but does that restriction apply if you takeoff outside of a park, and fly over it where you're now in Transport Canadas jurisdiction.

Also, your Instagram is awesome, what drone do you fly?

 

[njkuhne]

Very interesting about Rouge National Urban Park. It would be useful if you added an addendum in regards to sub 250 drones, which would allow you to fly within most of the airspace restrictions that prevent any real flying without a SFOC or RPAS in Toronto. It is interesting that you can't legally fly in a Toronto park, but does that restriction apply if you takeoff outside of a park, and fly over it where you're now in Transport Canadas jurisdiction.

Also, your Instagram is awesome, what drone do you fly?

Thanks for the read FC_

I think you are totally right about the loophole regarding flying just outside of a park, and taking the drone into the parks airspace.

I was looking to cover Toronto more in depth when it comes to <250g's as Im flying a Mavic Mini now a days.

Thanks for the love of my instagram, Im just sorta getting started and its great to get feedback

 

[Dansch]

Here is a more detailed response by TC:

900.06 applies to all RPAS regardless of weight.

Yes, sub 250g RPAs are not regulated under Subpart 1, 2 and 3 of Part IX. These are the only part that would not apply to sub 250g RPAs.

Sub 250g RPAs are aircraft under CARS 101 definitions and other Parts of CARs, like for restricted airspace, forest fire, the Aeronautic Act and 5.1 also applies to sub 250g RPA, being an aircraft.

If the airspace prohibits “aircraft” than it applies to sub 250 gram RPAS’s too. The wording of the 5.1 and/or forest fire NOTAM under 601.16 and 601.17 likely would prohibit sub 250 gram RPAS’s. Class F restricted airspace again it would depend on the wording i.e. prison Class F airspaces typically restrict “aircraft”.

Micro Drones less than 250 grams. The 250 g weight threshold was selected to mitigate the risk that a drone would pose to an aircraft and people on the ground, and is consistent the approach taken in several other countries, including the US.
The fact that DJI introduced a smaller drone does not change the evidence behind why Transport Canada chose the 250g cut-off, so there is no reason to open up the VLOS regulations in response to this. The only reason we would open up discussion of the weight cut-off is if new evidence came to light that there is a danger to people or aircraft.

a. CAR 900.06 No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person. This regulation applies to RPAS's less than 250 grams.

b. Pilots of micro drones weighing under 250 grams (g) are not required to register their drone or obtain a drone pilot certificate, but must fly in a way that does not endanger the safety of other aircraft or people.

c. All drone pilots are also subject to the Criminal Code as well as all provincial, territorial, and municipal laws governing areas such as privacy and trespassing. This applies to any size of drone used for any purpose.

d. Can a micro drone (less than 250 grams) fly in Class f or a 5.1? If the airspace prohibits “aircraft” than it applies to sub 250 gram RPAS’s too. The wording of the 5.1 and/or forest fire NOTAM under 601.16 and 601.17 likely would prohibit sub 250 gram RPAS’s. Class F restricted airspace again it would depend on the wording i.e. prison Class F airspaces typically restrict “aircraft” so this would restrict RPAS less than 250 grams.
To simplify the above a Micro drone (less than 250 grams) is an aircraft and cannot fly in a restricted airspace (Class F or a 5.1) or in airspace that prohibits aircraft.

e. Would an authorization be required to operate a less than 250g RPAS in Class C or D airspace (601.08 & 601.09)? Since the RPAS are not flying VFR/IFR these regs do not apply.

Out of curiosity, where is this TC response from? Was it in response to you contacting them directly, or is this available online somewhere? It seems like an excellent reference to have for if/whenever people ask these questions.

 

[drone111]

Out of curiosity, where is this TC response from? Was it in response to you contacting them directly, or is this available online somewhere? It seems like an excellent reference to have for if/whenever people ask these questions.

From a contact I had on the RPAS task force at transport canada

 

[Mr.Williamus]

So you can fly a micro-drone in a street, over traffic, etc… but can’t fly anywhere there is space and greenery: no municipal, provincial, or national parks or forests. But you can bypass this rule by standing on a busy sidewalk.
And Transport Canada advertises on Twitter they “don’t restrict where you can fly a micro-drone under 250g”, yet when you email them they tell you a drone is an aircraft and can’t fly in restricted areas.

If they really want to “mitigate the risk for airplanes and people” then they should allow drones in proper areas. If a park or a forest isn’t a proper area to fly a drone, then where?

These regulations make no sense and restrict freedom. Especially the municipal by-laws that just blanket ban everything because it is easier. There’s something wrong if the law is so broad that a child can’t use an RC car in a park. There, I said it! ?

 

[drone111]

Ok I'll explain and tackle this for you... I don't know if you have your basic or advanced so...yeah anyways..here we go.

Transport Canada Laws = Pro Drone Users (as long as you have your advanced certification)

By-Laws = Anti Drone Users

The bylaws are passed mainly because the public thinks every drone user is spying on them and will fly away and crash (thanks to the media and a few idiot pilots). So the city does what they can by saying no drones in parks.

The laws are not there to make sense but if you have your advanced certificate you have total freedom and a park will not stop you from flying... All you need to do is step a foot outside of it or fly off any sidewalk ... Lots of places you can still fly that isn't in a park, I usually scout out places near by... For instance there is this big government building I want to take a photo of and the land is surrounded by a park with city bylaws. However there is a lane way right by there for passengers on a path about 10ft wide that has little to no traffic and is an easy take off .... You just need to get a little creative. Once your in the air there are no bylaws so you can fly however you wish. Although make sure your feet are not in a park if there is a bylaw but you can fly over it.... Bylaws have no laws when transport Canada and NAV Canada has already approved your flight..

Hope that somewhat helps and gives you a few ideas.

 

[Mr.Williamus]

Yes, thanks. And to be real clear, with micro-drones, you still can’t fly within 3 miles of an airport, correct? Basically all the yellow and red zones on the drone site selection map?

 

[drone111]

Yes, thanks. And to be real clear, with micro-drones, you still can’t fly within 3 miles of an airport, correct? Basically all the yellow and red zones on the drone site selection map?

Answer regarding 250g less are here in my post: Toronto Mavic Owner: where can I fly?

However, even though you can (as they are toys) you still have to be responsible. That means, if you are not responsible and cause any risk (even if its a toy) then your going to be legally responsible.