Two More Battery Failures
- Thread starter WWK888
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The final feature set is far less important than the inevitable early adopter bugs in both the FW and software, as well as the manufacturing defects, that usually get ironed out between 6-12 months after release (like the swelling of M2 batteries). Precision landing has no value to me, as I always hand-catch. The P4P has had a nearly 3 year run! Mavic 2 was stable after 6 months, and is still going strong. The good ones survive and continue to be produced, unless something better comes along, in which case you can buy the prior stable version at a big discount from people upgrading to the newest unstable one. The other ones that are out of production probably were't that good to begin with, or have been greatly upgraded.
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Both batteries swollen with time charged 26 & 36 Mavic 2 Pro <--- add 2 more to the list. No dates but it was bought October which puts the batteries at or before then.
Good point. However, my understanding is that the 2018.08 and prior batteries that have swollen started doing so within a time period that the batteries with later Production Dates have already successfully exceeded. My 2018.10 M2 batteries that are now 11 months old still show no signs of swelling, while the 2018.07 and 2018.08 batteries started swelling after 6 months and well before 11 months. Still waiting for a single swelling report on any M2 battery with a Production Date after 2018.08. Once we have such a report, all bets are off.
Only after 6 months, huh?
Most of the reports started coming in over the past few months which is why I too considered battery age to possibly be a factor with this series.
So far three variables to consider:
Battery age
Bad batch of batteries within a certain run, which do far we believe is at or before last August
Heat - which we have to consider it's been a pretty hot summer.
I'm leaning on a bad batch as the major contributor, but the other two coincide.
Incidentally, right now I can't tell my two bad ones apart, where when I first discovered the swelling, one was more swollen by 1mm than the other. I believe the one that was worse was the one with a weak latch. That's how I'm currently differentiating them.
Most of the reports started coming in over the past few months which is why I too considered battery age to possibly be a factor with this series.
So far three variables to consider:
Battery age
Bad batch of batteries within a certain run, which do far we believe is at or before last August
Heat - which we have to consider it's been a pretty hot summer.
I'm leaning on a bad batch as the major contributor, but the other two coincide.
Incidentally, right now I can't tell my two bad ones apart, where when I first discovered the swelling, one was more swollen by 1mm than the other. I believe the one that was worse was the one with a weak latch. That's how I'm currently differentiating them.
True. Jury is still out, but we have a couple of pretty good hypotheses we are working from, still awaiting more data. To clarify, I haven't had any swelling, as none of my M2 batteries have the 2018.08 or prior production date, happily. I am only going off my understanding of the reports of those with M2 battery swelling. Not sure when the first M2 battery swelling reports began, but my best guess was they began after the 6 month warranty expired, as otherwise, DJI would have covered them. Despite no swelling, I still ordered set of rubberized velcro retaining straps to secure any batteries that might swell in the future. It's cheap insurance, if the batteries ever no longer snap in tightly and securely with the two latches. Even with swelling, reports are that performance seems to be unaffected, as long as the battery connections themselves are still tight.
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johnmeyer
Well-Known Member
I just skimmed all the posts, and while there are lots of anecdotes, I don't see much in the way of definitive information on underlying causes. Since not everyone has experienced this, that seems to rule out an underlying design defect.
Also, LiON batteries are used in thousands of applications, and I don't remember hearing about battery swelling problems in phones, flashlights, hybrid cars and EVs, laptops (actually, I have heard about it with those), etc. So, I don't think it is a problem with the sometimes finicky lithium chemistry.
As an engineer, here is my speculation on most likely causes.
Manufacturing defect (bad lot). Several people speculated on this, but I didn't see any pattern in the manufacturing dates. Also, I would think there would be news stories about this, if it could be confirmed. A Google search turned up many reports in other forums (as well as this forum), so the problem most definitely exists, but based on current evidence, I don't think it is a problem with a given battery lot.
Bad Charger. This is certainly a possibility because many of the people reporting this, including those in this thread, say that they have multiple batteries which have the problem. Anything might happen with a single battery, but when one person has multiple batteries go bad, but others do not, you have to look at a common cause, and a faulty charger would be one of them. Are these people using the stock charger? Is the charger overheating? It gets quite hot when both the controller and battery are being charged at the same time. I now always use a cooling fan when charging.
Hot Battery When Charging Starts. If the user does a long flight, and then puts the battery in the charger immediately upon return, it might get unusually hot during charging. The charger circuit is supposed to prevent the battery from overheating, but perhaps it is not reducing the charging current enough when heat is sensed.
Too Many Extreme Discharges. There is a site called "batteryuniversity.com" which provides lots of technical information on how each different rechargeable battery chemistry should be treated. It includes specifications for how to design charging circuits. For LiON cells, much of the design information concerns avoiding deep discharges; avoiding overheating during charging; and avoiding overcharging. Any one of these can cause premature breakdown and failure. All three can be sensed and avoided by proper design and circuitry, but with DJI drones, if you adjust your settings to increase flight time, and routinely run the battery down "all the way," my guess is that your battery will break down more quickly.
Hot day. I am not sure how well the battery would hold up if one were to fly on a day with temps well above 90° F. Actually, the flying is probably OK, but I'll bet that the little internal fan might have a problem keeping the battery cool during the time it is powered up, but not getting cooled by the air streaming through the vents. I wonder if hovering heats the battery more than fast forward motion?
So, while I am most certainly not completely ruling out faulty batteries, I do think that there may be some combination of user behavior which leads to this outcome.
Also, LiON batteries are used in thousands of applications, and I don't remember hearing about battery swelling problems in phones, flashlights, hybrid cars and EVs, laptops (actually, I have heard about it with those), etc. So, I don't think it is a problem with the sometimes finicky lithium chemistry.
As an engineer, here is my speculation on most likely causes.
Manufacturing defect (bad lot). Several people speculated on this, but I didn't see any pattern in the manufacturing dates. Also, I would think there would be news stories about this, if it could be confirmed. A Google search turned up many reports in other forums (as well as this forum), so the problem most definitely exists, but based on current evidence, I don't think it is a problem with a given battery lot.
Bad Charger. This is certainly a possibility because many of the people reporting this, including those in this thread, say that they have multiple batteries which have the problem. Anything might happen with a single battery, but when one person has multiple batteries go bad, but others do not, you have to look at a common cause, and a faulty charger would be one of them. Are these people using the stock charger? Is the charger overheating? It gets quite hot when both the controller and battery are being charged at the same time. I now always use a cooling fan when charging.
Hot Battery When Charging Starts. If the user does a long flight, and then puts the battery in the charger immediately upon return, it might get unusually hot during charging. The charger circuit is supposed to prevent the battery from overheating, but perhaps it is not reducing the charging current enough when heat is sensed.
Too Many Extreme Discharges. There is a site called "batteryuniversity.com" which provides lots of technical information on how each different rechargeable battery chemistry should be treated. It includes specifications for how to design charging circuits. For LiON cells, much of the design information concerns avoiding deep discharges; avoiding overheating during charging; and avoiding overcharging. Any one of these can cause premature breakdown and failure. All three can be sensed and avoided by proper design and circuitry, but with DJI drones, if you adjust your settings to increase flight time, and routinely run the battery down "all the way," my guess is that your battery will break down more quickly.
Hot day. I am not sure how well the battery would hold up if one were to fly on a day with temps well above 90° F. Actually, the flying is probably OK, but I'll bet that the little internal fan might have a problem keeping the battery cool during the time it is powered up, but not getting cooled by the air streaming through the vents. I wonder if hovering heats the battery more than fast forward motion?
So, while I am most certainly not completely ruling out faulty batteries, I do think that there may be some combination of user behavior which leads to this outcome.
Actually from the main thread theres a fairly clear trend. Every single swollen battery so far found was manufactured in August or July 2018. As of yet, nobody has reported one made after that date.
Not sure about that - some people are using 3rd party chargers and most have DJIs. Both camps have reported swelling.
Possibly but im unconvinced - the battery itself wont start charging until its below a certain temp and will stop if it goes above that. Plus quite a few people, including myself charge the batteries days or more later so they'd have definitely cooled.
Again this doesnt really stack up. Lots of people reporting swelling (including myself) are on the ground with 30% or more remaining every flight and seldom, if ever, use sport mode for high current drain.
Its possible. I initially thought all of mine dying might be to do with ambient. I live in the tropics where conditions are 30c or so every day (however well within DJI specs and the same conditions the mavic 1 had which was fine for a few years). Others though in much cooler parts have reported it.
To me its looking more and more like a manufacturing defect or process that was stopped or changed some time in August 2018. Whether that defect is made worse by things like temperature is hard to say but the lack of reports of swelling batteries produced after then is hinting towards some production issue.
johnmeyer
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. I didn't see that, but I'll admit that I read through the four pages of posts pretty quickly. If that is true, then that would be the entire explanation and, if you don't have a battery manufactured within that timeframe (which is getting to be quite a long time ago), you don't need to worry.
This thread:-
Swelling Battery caused Crash
UPDATE: Tonight could of been disastrous. I could of lost my Mavic 2 Zoom. I know some of my 5 batteries are displaying battery buldge. As mentioned in one of my above posting I have only 5 batteries. I numbered them 1-5 with 5 the newest one bought. #1 battery came with the AC. They seem to...
mavicpilots.com
The problem now is there are enough cases of batteries swelling there are multiple posts on it so information gets fragmented.
Looking at my AirData Battery log I discovered 2 of my 3 batteries started showing Major Deviation in Feb. I find it unsettling that DJI Refuses to acknowledge there is an issue with their batteries and suggested I purchase new ones. With only 41 flights on this battery, at $159 that $3.87 per flight. Funny how my Phantom batteries at still in good shape. This is without a doubt a manufacturing defect and should be covered. I will not be getting over this anytime soon.
You're lucky..I got 18-20 flights out of all 3 of my batteries before they swelled. $7.50 a flight.
So far, without exception, all the owners of the swollen M2 batteries are reporting Production Dates of 2018.08 and earlier. I have yet to hear of a single case of a swollen M2 battery with a Production Date after 2018.08. If you can find one, please share it. That's a clear pattern to me.
Just had minimal swelling of a battery purchased 12/19. Of note it did have 160-170 flights on it and many in ambient temps of 100-102 degrees F.
In my case, heat may indeed be a factor, but I've had my P3 batteries 2 years longer and no swelling. I don't recall having those with my M2 when the M2 swelling started but I'm sure I've had it in my car on some hot days.
I thought about phones, laptops, tablets not tending to swell, but we tend to not use them the same. They usually are in constant or frequent use and not in full charge for long. Laptops might be left for days at full charge but today's laptops tend to stop charging at 95% and we don't miss the 5%. With our quads though, we want tip top charge to get as much flight time as possible.
I thought about phones, laptops, tablets not tending to swell, but we tend to not use them the same. They usually are in constant or frequent use and not in full charge for long. Laptops might be left for days at full charge but today's laptops tend to stop charging at 95% and we don't miss the 5%. With our quads though, we want tip top charge to get as much flight time as possible.
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