Two sides to every situation

[Slade]

I"m a six month drone owner/pilot, using my bird for work purposes doing aerial photography only. I want to call your attention to the other side of the issue that pits privacy rights against the rights one has to fly his drone.

Next door to me, living with his parents, is a 40 something individual who who is a convicted felon, having served time for possession of illegal weapons and parts manufacture/sale, and has been arrested at least three times since then for the same offenses. The last time he was arrested was two weeks ago, and with our lovely "zero bail" policy here in California, he is again out on the streets, apparently waiting for a future court date, which he will probably blow off.
About a month ago on a Saturday morning I was in my back yard and heard the familiar sounds of spinning blades. I looked up and across my yard at about 50 feet flew a drone, continuing north away from my house. By coincidence I went into my front yard a few minutes later and who should I see standing in the street closely studying a drone controller was my felon neighbor. I didn't want to cause an issue then, but at least three more Saturday mornings since I have watched him out there flying his drone in all directions throughout the neighborhood.
This past Saturday I had had enough. I went into my front yard, and told him that most everyone I know values their privacy and he should not be randomly flying his drone over peoples' properties when there is no way anyone knows what he is looking at or why. He told me to Mod Removed Language ) mind my own business. That pretty much put me over the edge. I told him with his long and sordid record with law enforcement, the eyes and ears of rest of the neighbors already go on alert when his familiar beat-up pickup truck rolls down the street, and it should be obvious to him what they must be thinking when his drone flies over their property. I told him he probably doesn't want the police to come snooping around AGAIN, and if he agreed, he should take his drone out into the country away from people who would take offense to what he is doing. I won't repeat when he said in response, but that is where it ended.

Almost all of the posts I see regarding this topic are from those of you who have had run-ins with neighbors while flying your drones responsibly and for legitimate purposes. Clearly that is not what I am dealing with.

I'd like to get some feedback from some of you regarding my predicament. While I, like all of you, value our rights to fly these drones, there is no doubt that the relative ease and low cost of purchasing a high quality unit with remarkable photographic capabilities also exists for those who clearly have less than upstanding purposes in mind for their use. I did call my local police department, and, without giving my name or address asked if there were any privacy laws being broken that I could call them out for, and they said no. I asked if there was any recourse at all at my disposal, and they said nothing other than talking to my neighbor and trying to make him understand the concerns held by myself and the rest of our neighbors.

Help?

Expectation of privacy DOES NOT include your front or back yard since you can be seen publicly. Try hanging out naked and telling the arresting officer you have a right to privacy. I fly around my neighborhood all the time and always with FAA approval. If my neighbors have issue with my legal activities they can drop by and we can discuss how their right to dictate where I fly ends on the tip of their nose. I never fly below 150’ in my area because I don’t want my drone to bother other people. As for your felon neighbor, have you checked to see if he has LAANC approval to fly?

 

[STS-Mavic-Mini]

I"m a six month drone owner/pilot, using my bird for work purposes doing aerial photography only. I want to call your attention to the other side of the issue that pits privacy rights against the rights one has to fly his drone.

Next door to me, living with his parents, is a 40 something individual who who is a convicted felon, having served time for possession of illegal weapons and parts manufacture/sale, and has been arrested at least three times since then for the same offenses. The last time he was arrested was two weeks ago, and with our lovely "zero bail" policy here in California, he is again out on the streets, apparently waiting for a future court date, which he will probably blow off.
About a month ago on a Saturday morning I was in my back yard and heard the familiar sounds of spinning blades. I looked up and across my yard at about 50 feet flew a drone, continuing north away from my house. By coincidence I went into my front yard a few minutes later and who should I see standing in the street closely studying a drone controller was my felon neighbor. I didn't want to cause an issue then, but at least three more Saturday mornings since I have watched him out there flying his drone in all directions throughout the neighborhood.
This past Saturday I had had enough. I went into my front yard, and told him that most everyone I know values their privacy and he should not be randomly flying his drone over peoples' properties when there is no way anyone knows what he is looking at or why. He told me to Mod Removed Language ) mind my own business. That pretty much put me over the edge. I told him with his long and sordid record with law enforcement, the eyes and ears of rest of the neighbors already go on alert when his familiar beat-up pickup truck rolls down the street, and it should be obvious to him what they must be thinking when his drone flies over their property. I told him he probably doesn't want the police to come snooping around AGAIN, and if he agreed, he should take his drone out into the country away from people who would take offense to what he is doing. I won't repeat when he said in response, but that is where it ended.

Almost all of the posts I see regarding this topic are from those of you who have had run-ins with neighbors while flying your drones responsibly and for legitimate purposes. Clearly that is not what I am dealing with.

I'd like to get some feedback from some of you regarding my predicament. While I, like all of you, value our rights to fly these drones, there is no doubt that the relative ease and low cost of purchasing a high quality unit with remarkable photographic capabilities also exists for those who clearly have less than upstanding purposes in mind for their use. I did call my local police department, and, without giving my name or address asked if there were any privacy laws being broken that I could call them out for, and they said no. I asked if there was any recourse at all at my disposal, and they said nothing other than talking to my neighbor and trying to make him understand the concerns held by myself and the rest of our neighbors.

Help?

I'm pretty new to drones, but when I got mine I told all my near neighbours that I had it and my reasons for purchasing. I want to use it to record video for my web clients' sites. But I also explained that I will fly it over my house and the golf course behind my house for practice. I've had no repercussions from them.

However, the other evening, I took it to the 1st hole and flew it up from the tee, along the fairway, and then descended to just above the green while recording. I then hit RTH and it obediently returned to the tee.
After landing, I was chatting with one of the course workers who was interested. Around the corner from the 18th green, and not-near neighbour approached, having just finishing his round. I know he is not a drone fan, and has frequent clashes with HIS next door neighbour who is also a drone pilot. Let's just say that they don't get along - ever.
So, when he appeared, I thought "Oh, oh, here we go." But we know each other from the course, and get along. He said he didn't like the buzz when he was making his last putt, but didn't seem otherwise perturbed. He asked if my drone had a camera, and then bristled a little. But I quickly explained my purpose and that he would never have to worry about me spying on him. Situation diffused. I hope.

So, my point is - always communicate - preferably before flying so that issues don't arise. It works for me.

Oh, and 'no' to the pellet gun. That's not communication.

 

[Jack Ray]

Would you react the same if he wasn’t a convicted felon ?
Lets face it he couldn't really case out you property or spy on anyone with the view you get from a normal consumer drone.
Granted he may be annoying but is he doing any harm especially if the police say he is within the law?

 

[Blume TMS]

.177 caliber pellet falling out of the sky relatively straight down will do less damage than an acorn falling out of a tree.... but if I was going to take down a drone 50 feet or less directly over my house I'd use a 12 gage shotgun with #2 shot....

but then I guess some folks here want you to bring him some homemade cookies and go sit in his truck and be friends...

 

[Jack Ray]

This mass hysteria about drones is just another manifestation of how society thinks today. A drone flying about in a neighborhood is not a crime that I know of, there may be something in the covenants that could make it a violation?
I don’t know your situation, neighborhood density etc....however, I think you are overreacting just a bit?‍

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

I"m a six month drone owner/pilot, using my bird for work purposes doing aerial photography only. I want to call your attention to the other side of the issue that pits privacy rights against the rights one has to fly his drone.

Next door to me, living with his parents, is a 40 something individual who who is a convicted felon, having served time for possession of illegal weapons and parts manufacture/sale, and has been arrested at least three times since then for the same offenses. The last time he was arrested was two weeks ago, and with our lovely "zero bail" policy here in California, he is again out on the streets, apparently waiting for a future court date, which he will probably blow off.
About a month ago on a Saturday morning I was in my back yard and heard the familiar sounds of spinning blades. I looked up and across my yard at about 50 feet flew a drone, continuing north away from my house. By coincidence I went into my front yard a few minutes later and who should I see standing in the street closely studying a drone controller was my felon neighbor. I didn't want to cause an issue then, but at least three more Saturday mornings since I have watched him out there flying his drone in all directions throughout the neighborhood.
This past Saturday I had had enough. I went into my front yard, and told him that most everyone I know values their privacy and he should not be randomly flying his drone over peoples' properties when there is no way anyone knows what he is looking at or why. He told me to Mod Removed Language ) mind my own business. That pretty much put me over the edge. I told him with his long and sordid record with law enforcement, the eyes and ears of rest of the neighbors already go on alert when his familiar beat-up pickup truck rolls down the street, and it should be obvious to him what they must be thinking when his drone flies over their property. I told him he probably doesn't want the police to come snooping around AGAIN, and if he agreed, he should take his drone out into the country away from people who would take offense to what he is doing. I won't repeat when he said in response, but that is where it ended.

Almost all of the posts I see regarding this topic are from those of you who have had run-ins with neighbors while flying your drones responsibly and for legitimate purposes. Clearly that is not what I am dealing with.

I'd like to get some feedback from some of you regarding my predicament. While I, like all of you, value our rights to fly these drones, there is no doubt that the relative ease and low cost of purchasing a high quality unit with remarkable photographic capabilities also exists for those who clearly have less than upstanding purposes in mind for their use. I did call my local police department, and, without giving my name or address asked if there were any privacy laws being broken that I could call them out for, and they said no. I asked if there was any recourse at all at my disposal, and they said nothing other than talking to my neighbor and trying to make him understand the concerns held by myself and the rest of our neighbors.

Help?

Check with your local Council and see if there is a city bylaw prohibiting the flight of a drone over private property without the owner’s permission. You may have recourse that way. Most landowners or tenants are probably flexible within reason if the drone is high and does not linger or intrude (more like a low flying plane approaching to land). But a person with criminal history, especially if related to theft, is certainly not likely to get permission. Take some video and photos of the behaviour if it becomes intrusive, as you would need date/timed evidence of any repeated trespass and surveillance over your property. And be careful of contact, in case of retaliation or vandalism.

 

[Jack Ray]

.177 caliber pellet falling out of the sky relatively straight down will do less damage than an acorn falling out of a tree.... but if I was going to take down a drone 50 feet or less directly over my house I'd use a 12 gage shotgun with #2 shot....

but then I guess some folks here want you to bring him some homemade cookies and go sit in his truck and be friends...

Bird Shot would be more sporting....

 

[Texbow]

I have a slightly different view. If in fact he is a felon with a rap sheet he gets not positive assumption from me in regard to anything he is doing. His history has destroyed trust. In my home state of Texas it is currently illegal to fly over personal property for the purpose of surveillance. The law leans towards the property owner. This law is currently being challenged in the courts and I hope it's changed even though I agree with some of it's provisions. The rub comes in defining Surveillance. If you are in your backyard and he is flying 50 foot high and filming you, the law is not going to be on the drone pilots side here in Texas in most cases. The sheriff or local police would certainly make a visit to pilots home to discuss if notified. If he could convince the officer he was not filming his neighbor and had a rational justification for his actions he MIGHT get off with a warning. His criminal record would no doubt be a factor in how it was handled. If the pilot was just flying by at a higher altitude the majority of property owners are not going to have an issue. Regardless for now anyway here in Texas privacy rights trump hobby drone rights.

I suspect that the culture difference between Texas and California may have an influence on how these matters are regulated and handled.

 

[Jack Ray]

I have a slightly different view. If in fact he is a felon with a rap sheet he gets not positive assumption from me in regard to anything he is doing. His history has destroyed trust. In my home state of Texas it is currently illegal to fly over personal property for the purpose of surveillance. The law leans towards the property owner. This law is currently being challenged in the courts and I hope it's changed even though I agree with some of it's provisions. The rub comes in defining Surveillance. If you are in your backyard and he is flying 50 foot high and filming you, the law is not going to be on the drone pilots side here in Texas in most cases. The sheriff or local police would certainly make a visit to pilots home to discuss if notified. If he could convince the officer he was not filming his neighbor and had a rational justification for his actions he MIGHT get off with a warning. His criminal record would no doubt be a factor in how it was handled. If the pilot was just flying by at a higher altitude the majority of property owners are not going to have an issue. Regardless for now anyway here in Texas privacy rights trump hobby drone rights.

I suspect that the culture difference between Texas and California may have an influence on how these matters are regulated and handled.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Check with your local Council and see if there is a city bylaw prohibiting the flight of a drone over private property without the owner’s permission.

The OP is in California, USA. In the USA all airspace (from the ground up) is controlled by one and only entity. That is the FAA. If he is flying legally per the FAA, and not violating any privacy laws then there is no council or city ordinance that can prevent him from legally flying his drone.

 

[KB9Radio]

I"m a six month drone owner/pilot, using my bird for work purposes doing aerial photography only. I want to call your attention to the other side of the issue that pits privacy rights against the rights one has to fly his drone.

Next door to me, living with his parents, is a 40 something individual who who is a convicted felon, having served time for possession of illegal weapons and parts manufacture/sale, and has been arrested at least three times since then for the same offenses. The last time he was arrested was two weeks ago, and with our lovely "zero bail" policy here in California, he is again out on the streets, apparently waiting for a future court date, which he will probably blow off.
About a month ago on a Saturday morning I was in my back yard and heard the familiar sounds of spinning blades. I looked up and across my yard at about 50 feet flew a drone, continuing north away from my house. By coincidence I went into my front yard a few minutes later and who should I see standing in the street closely studying a drone controller was my felon neighbor. I didn't want to cause an issue then, but at least three more Saturday mornings since I have watched him out there flying his drone in all directions throughout the neighborhood.
This past Saturday I had had enough. I went into my front yard, and told him that most everyone I know values their privacy and he should not be randomly flying his drone over peoples' properties when there is no way anyone knows what he is looking at or why. He told me to Mod Removed Language ) mind my own business. That pretty much put me over the edge. I told him with his long and sordid record with law enforcement, the eyes and ears of rest of the neighbors already go on alert when his familiar beat-up pickup truck rolls down the street, and it should be obvious to him what they must be thinking when his drone flies over their property. I told him he probably doesn't want the police to come snooping around AGAIN, and if he agreed, he should take his drone out into the country away from people who would take offense to what he is doing. I won't repeat when he said in response, but that is where it ended.

Almost all of the posts I see regarding this topic are from those of you who have had run-ins with neighbors while flying your drones responsibly and for legitimate purposes. Clearly that is not what I am dealing with.

I'd like to get some feedback from some of you regarding my predicament. While I, like all of you, value our rights to fly these drones, there is no doubt that the relative ease and low cost of purchasing a high quality unit with remarkable photographic capabilities also exists for those who clearly have less than upstanding purposes in mind for their use. I did call my local police department, and, without giving my name or address asked if there were any privacy laws being broken that I could call them out for, and they said no. I asked if there was any recourse at all at my disposal, and they said nothing other than talking to my neighbor and trying to make him understand the concerns held by myself and the rest of our neighbors.

Help?

I'm in the camp with the folks that responded "so what", you didn't really indicate anything he was doing wrong, and it's good to hear your authorities agreed. I don't know that I would stop flying legality, just because one neighbor complained. I kinda wish I had a neighbor in the area who flew drones, I have never seen another one in my area. It sounds like your more worried about the felon thing, which really has nothing to do with the drone.

 

[Jack Ray]

Gee, it’s California! Ya think?
The only person who knows the altitude of a drone in flight is either the pilot or the FAA/law enforcement, except perhaps that one guy with a degree in physics...but he is a story in himself.
I think the “free space” that exists above any “man made” structure could vary state to state but generally, I think it is 100’ co if you have a 2 story house on a hill...the first 100 ft +/- is considered your property.

 

[Texbow]

The OP is in California, USA. In the USA all airspace (from the ground up) is controlled by one and only entity. That is the FAA. If he is flying legally per the FAA, and not violating any privacy laws then there is no council or city ordinance that can prevent him from legally flying his drone.

I wish that were true. We can say that to the top of lungs but in actual cases state and local laws are being enforced that are in conflict (states says not in conflict) with federal regulations. You can fight it but you better be willing to spend some money doing so. For example in Texas it is not the FAA that is protesting the Texas Drone Laws but outside organizations. The Texas law regarding flying over private property are by design vague and allow a violation if your camera is rolling. I don't like it and I hope it's overturned.

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

I have a slightly different view. If in fact he is a felon with a rap sheet he gets not positive assumption from me in regard to anything he is doing. His history has destroyed trust. In my home state of Texas it is currently illegal to fly over personal property for the purpose of surveillance. The law leans towards the property owner. This law is currently being challenged in the courts and I hope it's changed even though I agree with some of it's provisions. The rub comes in defining Surveillance. If you are in your backyard and he is flying 50 foot high and filming you, the law is not going to be on the drone pilots side here in Texas in most cases. The sheriff or local police would certainly make a visit to pilots home to discuss if notified. If he could convince the officer he was not filming his neighbor and had a rational justification for his actions he MIGHT get off with a warning. His criminal record would no doubt be a factor in how it was handled. If the pilot was just flying by at a higher altitude the majority of property owners are not going to have an issue. Regardless for now anyway here in Texas privacy rights trump hobby drone rights.

I suspect that the culture difference between Texas and California may have an influence on how these matters are regulated and handled.

This topic has raised issues in both camps - drone pilots who think they can fly anywhere and landowners who don’t expect to have unknown people snooping and possibly filming them in the privacy of their own homes and properties. And today’s high res drone cameras, some with zoom lenses, do have the potential to be very intrusive. In New Zealand, there are increasing rules governing drones over land areas simply because pilots have not self-regulated with care and concerns about safety and privacy. Public and Government reserves have restrictions and city bylaws prohibit certain drone usage over private land without the owners giving permission. I always contact my neighbours before flying so that they are aware that the drone is going up, even if just over my home, as it has the potential to see into their yards. It seems perfectly reasonable and appropriate to show this consideration to my neighbours. And they never object and have appreciated the courtesy. I also sometimes ask first and then email photos and short videos to them showing their homes and gardens and they come out to wave up at the drone. Not owning one, they then have something special to send on to family and friends and they have given permission, willingly. Participation and friendliness. There are two ways to fly - I prefer mine. And I would also prefer to be notified, before somebody flew low and slow over my home. Drone courtesy. Imagine if your neighbour climbed up a ladder at the fence and started taking photos of you, while you were sunbathing in your back yard. Is that okay? Yeah, right! Cheers! ?

 

[PhantomFandom]

I wish that were true. We can say that to the top of lungs but in actual cases state and local laws are being enforced that are in conflict (states says not in conflict) with federal regulations. You can fight it but you better be willing to spend some money doing so. For example in Texas it is not the FAA that is protesting the Texas Drone Laws but outside organizations. The Texas law regarding flying over private property are by design vague and allow a violation if your camera is rolling. I don't like it and I hope it's overturned.

Law and reality can many times be two different things. The FEDERAL law in the USA is very clear about airspace. However, the issue is that state and local governments pass other laws that either skirt close to the issue or flagrantly disregard it and count on no one challenging them.

As far as the Texas laws, they aren't necessarily controlling airspace (that's their argument), but enforcing laws against surveillance. So yes someone would either need to prove they were not illegally performing acts of surveillance or fight the law in court. Not many people have the time, energy, and money to do so.

It is a different situation but the case in Michigan comes to mind. The local park authority made regulations to prevent drone flights in parks. They were taken to court and the local government lost! The same applies to the ridiculous anti-drone laws in NYC. Totally against FAA regulations but who has the bankroll to fight NYC in court?

So perhaps until someone can challenge these laws and win, the best thing to do is to be careful and stay within these terrible laws. In Texas for instance, if you are below 100 feet and over private property then keep the camera off or never pointed lower than pointing straight ahead. If confronted (or worse yet, arrested) then you can easily prove that there was no surveillance.

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

The OP is in California, USA. In the USA all airspace (from the ground up) is controlled by one and only entity. That is the FAA. If he is flying legally per the FAA, and not violating any privacy laws then there is no council or city ordinance that can prevent him from legally flying his drone.

The question of “not violating any privacy laws” was why I suggested that he also check with his local authority. At least worth checking, if the police did nothing. Bylaws are being introduced everywhere - maybe just not in the USA - yet.

 

[paulbuckley]

In the UK we are restricted to flying no closer than 150 feet to any building or structure not in our control. Is there no similar FAA aviation restriction?

 

[PhantomFandom]

In the UK we are restricted to flying no closer than 150 feet to any building or structure not in our control. Is there no similar FAA aviation restriction?

No there is no such regulation.

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

No there is no such regulation.

People will be mounting guns on their drones there, next ...... 5th amendment ..... only in America! The right to carry and the right to fly! ? ???

 

[PhantomFandom]

People will be mounting guns on their drones there, next ...... 5th amendment ..... only in America! The right to carry and the right to fly! ? ???

Actually that won't happen because it is indeed illegal (per the FAA) to weaponize a drone. You can not mount any weapon or other dangerous accessory on a drone.