UK Drone pilot gets $1,900 fine
- Thread starter mavic3usa
- Start date
Is this based on actually spending time in the EU, or what you see on Youtube and social media posts?
Right now, I'd say that the rest of the world is stunned and flabbergasted at what Americans will go for.
Mavic3usa stated:
"I happen to agree with you that criminals don't obey the law and don't care about the fines which is exactly why excessive fines only hurt the non-criminals."
That makes no sense. If you did not break the law, you won't be fined. In Europe and the UK they have very severe penalties for driving and texting or talking on the phone while holding it. Prior to these high fines coming into effect, people used to do it all the time and accidents happened from minor to killing someone.
Once such high fines were put in place, the number of people driving and still doing it, dropped tremendously, to the point now, that you almost never see anyone do it. That makes for safer roads, by eliminating handheld phone use. If they still had low fines, this would not be the case.
If you as a good citizen breaks the law or you are a hardened criminal, you both did the same law-breaking activity. It was the choice of the good citizen to willfully break that law. High fines deter the good citizen from continuing to do that. Low fines make a select number of people think that they probably won't get caught, so they keep doing it.
The danger is still there, when they do it, low or high fines. It is only the high fines that make most people think twice about holding a phone while driving, to talk or text. This has been proven to be extremely effective at reducing this dangerous activity. It is that simple.
No innocents will be fined, only those that break the law. Don't try and suggest that people will be falsely accused and fined for it when they were not doing it, because your phone shows immediately with a date and time stamp on a call or text, that you either were doing it, or not doing it. The cops can't frame you and then falsely charge you, your phone proves your innocence, if it goes that far, end of story.
"I happen to agree with you that criminals don't obey the law and don't care about the fines which is exactly why excessive fines only hurt the non-criminals."
That makes no sense. If you did not break the law, you won't be fined. In Europe and the UK they have very severe penalties for driving and texting or talking on the phone while holding it. Prior to these high fines coming into effect, people used to do it all the time and accidents happened from minor to killing someone.
Once such high fines were put in place, the number of people driving and still doing it, dropped tremendously, to the point now, that you almost never see anyone do it. That makes for safer roads, by eliminating handheld phone use. If they still had low fines, this would not be the case.
If you as a good citizen breaks the law or you are a hardened criminal, you both did the same law-breaking activity. It was the choice of the good citizen to willfully break that law. High fines deter the good citizen from continuing to do that. Low fines make a select number of people think that they probably won't get caught, so they keep doing it.
The danger is still there, when they do it, low or high fines. It is only the high fines that make most people think twice about holding a phone while driving, to talk or text. This has been proven to be extremely effective at reducing this dangerous activity. It is that simple.
No innocents will be fined, only those that break the law. Don't try and suggest that people will be falsely accused and fined for it when they were not doing it, because your phone shows immediately with a date and time stamp on a call or text, that you either were doing it, or not doing it. The cops can't frame you and then falsely charge you, your phone proves your innocence, if it goes that far, end of story.
Millions of people falsely cited for DUI by cheating and dishonest police officers? Thousands? How many cases have you personally witnessed people being tested at a police station and being charged even though the results were negative? How is it that you were allowed to be there?
Another doom and gloom prediction. Which reminds me, what's the tally of cases where drone pilots have been tracked down and robbed or attacked by bad guys with RID tracking apps on their phones? Has the needle moved off the peg yet?
Mavic3usa stated:
"If traffic violations were minimum $1300, honest law-abiding people would start walking; those who simply can't take the risk. It would be absurd to suggest they should go ahead and drive away and just "stop committing infractions.""
This is another stupid statement. People would not start walking, people would simply stop breaking the law. Once again, it is that simple, you have a choice, you stop doing it or you go ahead and still commit the offence and take your chances. The word you used, Absurd... would be best described as your suggestion, that people would suddenly choose to walk, rather than obey the law.
None of us agree with crazy fines for making a little mistake while flying your drone, but for those who willfully do reckless things, repeatedly with their drones and put other innocent people in danger, then yes, throw a hefty fine at them, because they deserve it, having shown their blatant disregard for the laws in place.
"If traffic violations were minimum $1300, honest law-abiding people would start walking; those who simply can't take the risk. It would be absurd to suggest they should go ahead and drive away and just "stop committing infractions.""
This is another stupid statement. People would not start walking, people would simply stop breaking the law. Once again, it is that simple, you have a choice, you stop doing it or you go ahead and still commit the offence and take your chances. The word you used, Absurd... would be best described as your suggestion, that people would suddenly choose to walk, rather than obey the law.
None of us agree with crazy fines for making a little mistake while flying your drone, but for those who willfully do reckless things, repeatedly with their drones and put other innocent people in danger, then yes, throw a hefty fine at them, because they deserve it, having shown their blatant disregard for the laws in place.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I guess when capital punishment was abolished in the EU, the crime rates soared. And I guess in the US, when states implement the death penalty, their crimes rates plummeted. I understand your views stated above because they are popular views among some Americans, I just respectfully disagree with those views. So far I'm winning because this....
...will never be the case in my country in my lifetime. Except maybe in California might go there one day but I did say this is all about freedom; so there's that.
Im not an American, I'm British and I've lived in Europe for years as well. As for your stated facts, you need to back up those claims with some evidence.
Crime did not soar after capital punishment was ended in Europe. I also don't believe crime rates dropped as dramatically in the US, as you think they did, when they added the death penalty. Show some proof.
I'm fine with you having your own thoughts on these matters, I never suggested otherwise, you still have that freedom in the US.
Crime did not soar after capital punishment was ended in Europe. I also don't believe crime rates dropped as dramatically in the US, as you think they did, when they added the death penalty. Show some proof.
I'm fine with you having your own thoughts on these matters, I never suggested otherwise, you still have that freedom in the US.
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Or we can use facts to compare the two points of view.
Per capita, the UK has about 1/4 the traffic fatalities that occur in the US. Seems to me, that might indicate they're doing something more effective to discourage drunk driving and texting while driving.
Of course, the per capita vehicular travel in the US is certainly greater than in the UK, but that doesn't begin to explain the difference. Perhaps someone might look for figures to compare.
All about freedom? Freedom to do what? Drive drunk and do Google searches while controlling a 2000 pound vehicle at 60 miles per hour within 10 feet of vehicles going in the opposite direction?
I saw N.Ohio listed so I thought you were speaking from the midwest USA.
Agreed, implementing capital punishment won't directly decrease the crime rate.
Just like raising the price of cellphone tickets from $25 to $1300 won't decrease distracted driving accidents. The only thing that will do is create a bigger tax on the people and generate more revenue for the state (something UK/EU residents are intimately familiar with).
My definition of freedom in part has to do with the people being free of excessive fines and punishments so we will not be implementing excessive fines and punishments on this side of the pond.
You're dodging the documented fact that death and accident rates are substantially lower in a very similar society where penalties for driving drunk and driving while googling are penalized more heavily. There are decades of actual real-world data that eclipse your unsupported personal assertion that higher penalties do not result in fewer cases of drunk and distracted driving.
Your claims that thousands or millions of US drivers are falsely cited for infractions they did not commit and your claims of widespread conspiracies to entrap drivers falsely to boost fines from revenues are similarly unsupported.
The freedom issue you raise is just a vaporous distraction.
And all this is a distraction from the topic of drones.
If you would just replace "higher" with "excessive" penalties then you would understand my point.
There are no widespread conspiracies. But the law enforcement process is bogus, it unfair, it's excessive, it's easily abused, and there's a better way. Here's an example of how it gets abused:
I'm sorry, I just don't want to involve this kind of nonsense into my drone flying hobby lifestyle; the FAA is quite enough.
I live in Ohio now, but I'm from the UK. It's an understandable assumption.
As for your assumption about high fines not being a deterrent for handheld cell phone use, you are dead wrong. It has been proven for years, throughout the UK and Europe, that high-cost fines ABSOLUTELY DO decrease, tremendously, distracted driving accidents, associated with handheld cellphone use.
I don't understand why you are still refusing to acknowledge that proven fact. It's your right to continue to live in your delusional world though. And how are you linking high fines for those law breakers turning into higher taxes on the people? The more you speak, the more confused you show us, you are becoming.
As for your "freedom definition thoughts, the people ARE free of excessive fines and punishment, as long as they don't commit the offenses associated with those high fine link activities. As has been stated over and over, though you still choose to ignore, you are free to choose to commit the offense or not commit the offense.
If you willfully commit the offense, you have no leg to stand on, complaining about it being an unfair burden on the innocent people. Those who get fined are not the innocent, whether it be a driving offense or a drone flying offense. This is not rocket science, it's simple fact and you can't change that fact, with your distorted views.
You are bringing up rare cases that represent a fraction of a percent of the whole, and are trying to make these rare instances, seem as though they are happening everywhere, every day. They are not. Such cases are extremely rare and don't even warrant being brought in for consideration, as an argument.
That's not my assumption. Put my assumption in quotes and use it in a phrase to help you better understand.
"Excessive fines are not a deterrent for handheld cell phone use" in the US.
I understand it works for people who live in the UK/EU.
That's because we are different here. We are free. I hate to say it but in the UK/EU, people do as they are told. That won't work here.ds
You can chop off someone's hand if they shoplift and pretty much eliminate shoplifting. I call that excessive but I understand some people in this world are fine with that. The common reply "don't shoplift and you'll keep your limbs." Again, that works in some place around the world and that might even work in the UK/EU and maybe even Canada. But not here in the US. I don't need to bring it up again the reason why it won't work here. I know you are not advocating for chopping off hands but my point is, just because it's a proven fact that chopping off hands will doesn't mean I have to go along with it....and I won't. Find another way.
Love it that you guys over there fine motorists $1K+ for cellphone use and then revoke their license for life it is happens again. Fine. No disrespect, but you came over here so you could please leave that nonsense over here (where it indeed might work out) and try not to bring it here where it is mostly unwanted? That's all I am saying. Regardless of what you "facts" say about your country doesn't mean it's right or it good for us. It isn't. Maybe in some places in the US the laws need to have a 2nd look and maybe revised which may include things like increasing a $25 fine into a $50 fine or allowing such use to be a primary infraction (not just secondary) or even expanding the places besides a school zone or a work zone....as long as it isn't excessive, I'm fine if the people want to take another look at the laws. I'm not going to argue with the exact dollar figure but I just have to push back on the idea that the higher you go, the quicker you solve the problem without addressing other types of solutions.
Take a look at the video in post #36, did he willfully commit the offense?
You really said this?
But you also said this:
I think we are done here, you might live here but you don't know here.
If you actually believe this then it's no wonder you believe in the immaculate enforcement of laws in America (where there are basically no ethics and no morals) and you call for more laws and higher punishment with apparently no limits and I'm the opposite.....less laws and lower punishment. Perhaps you find out in America, the people tell the government what to do and not the other way around, the government doesn't tell the people what to do. If you are used to the latter, yes it can get a little bit uncomfortable to live here sometimes. But my rights don't end where your fears begin and in this country, we have a Constitution:
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.That's not my assumption. Put my assumption in quotes and use it in a phrase to help you better understand.
"Excessive fines are not a deterrent for handheld cell phone use" in the US.
I understand it works for people who live in the UK/EU.
That's because we are different here. We are free. I hate to say it but in the UK/EU, people do as they are told. That won't work here.ds
You can chop off someone's hand if they shoplift and pretty much eliminate shoplifting. I call that excessive but I understand some people in this world are fine with that. The common reply "don't shoplift and you'll keep your limbs." Again, that works in some place around the world and that might even work in the UK/EU and maybe even Canada. But not here in the US. I don't need to bring it up again the reason why it won't work here. I know you are not advocating for chopping off hands but my point is, just because it's a proven fact that chopping off hands will doesn't mean I have to go along with it....and I won't. Find another way.
Love it that you guys over there fine motorists $1K+ for cellphone use and then revoke their license for life it is happens again. Fine. No disrespect, but you came over here so you could please leave that nonsense over here (where it indeed might work out) and try not to bring it here where it is mostly unwanted? That's all I am saying. Regardless of what you "facts" say about your country doesn't mean it's right or it good for us. It isn't. Maybe in some places in the US the laws need to have a 2nd look and maybe revised which may include things like increasing a $25 fine into a $50 fine or allowing such use to be a primary infraction (not just secondary) or even expanding the places besides a school zone or a work zone....as long as it isn't excessive, I'm fine if the people want to take another look at the laws. I'm not going to argue with the exact dollar figure but I just have to push back on the idea that the higher you go, the quicker you solve the problem without addressing other types of solutions.
Take a look at the video in post #36, did he willfully commit the offense?
You really said this?
But you also said this:
I think we are done here, you might live here but you don't know here.
If you actually believe this then it's no wonder you believe in the immaculate enforcement of laws in America (where there are basically no ethics and no morals) and you call for more laws and higher punishment with apparently no limits and I'm the opposite.....less laws and lower punishment. Perhaps you find out in America, the people tell the government what to do and not the other way around, the government doesn't tell the people what to do. If you are used to the latter, yes it can get a little bit uncomfortable to live here sometimes. But my rights don't end where your fears begin and in this country, we have a Constitution:
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
To our friends in the UK and elsewhere, please be assured that such thoughts are not shared by all our population. Yes, bluster, single-mindedness, and a disregard for fact, law, and courtesy are frequently on display high and low. But most of us are good folks, like you.
You are just showing how misinformed you are.
Getting out of your own country might broaden your horizon and give you some perspective.
To inject a little reality into your imaginary bubble, here are the actual penalties.
Using a phone, sat nav or other device when driving
It’s illegal to hold a phone or a sat nav while driving - you'll get penalty points, a fine and can be banned from driving.
No disrespect, but you have no idea why he came to your country.
I don't either, but I have a feeling it's not what you are assuming.
Again you are making assumptions of things you know nothing about.
Dream on
Once again you are filling your response with irrelevant material. You keep speaking of being free all the time, though I'm beginning to think you have never been to western Europe or the UK. If you had been there, you would know that they are no less free than you are here, in fact in some ways, probably more free.That's not my assumption. Put my assumption in quotes and use it in a phrase to help you better understand.
"Excessive fines are not a deterrent for handheld cell phone use" in the US.
I understand it works for people who live in the UK/EU.
That's because we are different here. We are free. I hate to say it but in the UK/EU, people do as they are told. That won't work here.ds
You can chop off someone's hand if they shoplift and pretty much eliminate shoplifting. I call that excessive but I understand some people in this world are fine with that. The common reply "don't shoplift and you'll keep your limbs." Again, that works in some place around the world and that might even work in the UK/EU and maybe even Canada. But not here in the US. I don't need to bring it up again the reason why it won't work here. I know you are not advocating for chopping off hands but my point is, just because it's a proven fact that chopping off hands will doesn't mean I have to go along with it....and I won't. Find another way.
Love it that you guys over there fine motorists $1K+ for cellphone use and then revoke their license for life it is happens again. Fine. No disrespect, but you came over here so you could please leave that nonsense over here (where it indeed might work out) and try not to bring it here where it is mostly unwanted? That's all I am saying. Regardless of what you "facts" say about your country doesn't mean it's right or it good for us. It isn't. Maybe in some places in the US the laws need to have a 2nd look and maybe revised which may include things like increasing a $25 fine into a $50 fine or allowing such use to be a primary infraction (not just secondary) or even expanding the places besides a school zone or a work zone....as long as it isn't excessive, I'm fine if the people want to take another look at the laws. I'm not going to argue with the exact dollar figure but I just have to push back on the idea that the higher you go, the quicker you solve the problem without addressing other types of solutions.
Take a look at the video in post #36, did he willfully commit the offense?
You really said this?
But you also said this:
I think we are done here, you might live here but you don't know here.
If you actually believe this then it's no wonder you believe in the immaculate enforcement of laws in America (where there are basically no ethics and no morals) and you call for more laws and higher punishment with apparently no limits and I'm the opposite.....less laws and lower punishment. Perhaps you find out in America, the people tell the government what to do and not the other way around, the government doesn't tell the people what to do. If you are used to the latter, yes it can get a little bit uncomfortable to live here sometimes. But my rights don't end where your fears begin and in this country, we have a Constitution:
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
You have said this:
"Perhaps you find out in America, the people tell the government what to do and not the other way around, the government doesn't tell the people what to do".
Oh really, well, how free were you during Covid, hmm, that seemed to work against what you just said above, didn't it? Just about everyone did what they were told. You have tons of rules and regs that you have to follow. Just take all these communities that have Home Owners Associations, as one example. Last time I was in the UK, we didn't have such things.
You keep saying... "Excessive fines are not a deterrent for handheld cell phone use" in the US".
Based on what evidence, how in the world would you know? I'm quite sure that if such fines were introduced, and it was enforced, you would find it would have an immediate effect on the majority of the people. I say that because you and your "Freedom" friends also probably feel stiff speeding fines and posted speed limits are repugnant. Therefore, you feel so "free", that you and your counterparts would not put up with them. However, the reality is, that whenever you see a cop up ahead on a highway, suddenly everyone falls in line with the law and slows down.
You suggest that I take a look at the video in post #36. I am at a loss as to what your point is, here. The driver never got a ticket for doing something he was not. The cop thought he saw him holding a phone. We can all see that the cop was unsure in the end, that's why he just gave the driver a warning. Had the driver wanted to push it, he could have shown the cop his still unfinished sandwich, or shown him what his camera had recorded, and the mistake of the cop would have instantly been resolved.
You also said this:
"you call for more laws and higher punishment with apparently no limits."
What fantasy land are you living on? No where did I say anything of the kind. You need to stop making things up to try and strengthen your argument, it is not working. Your countrymen have been posting that they feel you are somewhat delusional with your rantings, and they do not agree with you.
There is little point in going on with you, from what I can tell with you, the lights are flashing, the gate is down and the bell is ringing... but there just does not seem to be a train coming along.
I've been to Europe and elsewhere. There is no genuine free speech in the UK. There, you are allowed to say whatever you want as long as the UK government is ok with it. When they are not, you'll fine out about it the hard way.
You don't seem to understand the definition of "excessive" and therefore I made the statement that "your call for more laws and higher punishment with apparently no limits" IF you actually believe innocent people don't get punished. (that was the context of my statement). That's usually the first sign when someone believes only the guilty get punished. I've stated repeatedly that personally I have top limits (for everything), I tried to point out examples of what I think it too high, and I've labeled them and repeatedly referred to them as "excessive." On the other hand, I've had no indication from you about that particular topic except your failure to acknowledge "excessive" which led me to believe "excessive" isn't possible in your world. So....
Do you believe there is a limit to how much punishment the government can dole out and if so, why can you understand my limit is way lower than your limit? Do you agree with me there is a "limit" to punishment/fines/etc where it becomes excessive no matter how effective it might be and therefore it is unlawful? If so, we can end this "discussion" pretty quickly; just say the world.
In America, some places are more free than others. There are several places here that have been hijacked and taken over and freedom is practically dead there but as a country, we are still the most free. However, as an activist, I believe no one is really free unless everyone is free.
Perhaps you confused the UK with the DPRK.
Because your ridiculous comment about free speech is 100% wrong.
But so much of what you say on a whole range of topics is too, so I guess you are being consistent.
Really ??
Examples please
No ... yours is just one of many countries where citizens enjoy freedom.
And you're not going to believe it, but several have equal or more freedom.
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