US National Parks - Fly Over okay?

[cjonesmn]

That said new people rarely know the forum and its tools like search, and search terms can be fairly wide ranging in results, so most of us bear with new posters in regards to this.

Well I can guarantee that this isn't the first forum I've been a part of and I certainly know how to search better than most people.

The truth is that I did spend time looking for a answer to my simple question and could not locate it in this forum. Likely the answer was part of an sub-thread or answer to the OP, but I couldn't locate it within a reasonable amount of time. I guess I wonder that if it's such a popular question, why doesn't someone post it in a FAQ as a sticky note? That would be a big help and time saver for all!

 

[JimWest]

Well, I tried to answer this before, but basically the VLOS in this case is of no issue, because I have VLOS from one side of the park to the other. This NP is in a valley and I would be up on a bluff (outside of NP boundaries) overlooking that valley.

How high is the bluff? Be careful of the 400' restriction; its AGL--above ground level--not above where you started.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Well, I tried to answer this before, but basically the VLOS in this case is of no issue, because I have VLOS from one side of the park to the other. This NP is in a valley and I would be up on a bluff (outside of NP boundaries) overlooking that valley.

That wasn't address to your situation with this property shoot cj . . . but people in general wanting to film a NP.
Effectively you won't get much footage of use in MOST places due to the VLOS rule (if a pilot is following that).

Your flight case I was referred to with "This would be totally ok, if doing a fly around over the boundary, while shooting towards the home, and probably taking some nice footage of the homes location near the park, some of the park surroundings etc, a nice part of the homes features / benefits."

Enjoy the shoot, should be interesting with the natural surroundings.

 

[IlluminationsfromtheAttic]

There's no problem so long as you takeoff/land from outside the park, though I would recommend not going very far over the boundaries. Usually it's possible to at least get a good establishing shot this way - I've done it a few times at Mt. Rainier.

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[DDDDMF]

I have searched high and low and keep getting confusing results. I know I can't take off, operate, and/or land a UAS from within the boundaries of a National Park. But what about flying over? Some say "No", some say "Yes", and the NPS site is not very clear. So I dummied up a flight plan in AirMap with a takeoff point just outside of Rocky Mountain National Park with a flight radius that took me over the park boundaries. As you can see the flight area is red indicating a rules violation. Then I went ahead anyway and proceeded with a flight plan as a recreational pilot flying less than 400' AGL, within VLOS, and not over people using my registered Mavic Mini. And then on the submission page it says I would be violating the "Do not fly over US national parks" rule.

What the heck am I missing?

Thanks in advance.

 

[sar104]

I have searched high and low and keep getting confusing results. I know I can't take off, operate, and/or land a UAS from within the boundaries of a National Park. But what about flying over? Some say "No", some say "Yes", and the NPS site is not very clear. So I dummied up a flight plan in AirMap with a takeoff point just outside of Rocky Mountain National Park with a flight radius that took me over the park boundaries. As you can see the flight area is red indicating a rules violation. Then I went ahead anyway and proceeded with a flight plan as a recreational pilot flying less than 400' AGL, within VLOS, and not over people using my registered Mavic Mini. And then on the submission page it says I would be violating the "Do not fly over US national parks" rule.

What the heck am I missing?

Thanks in advance.View attachment 129368View attachment 129369

What you are missing is that AirMap attempts to include rules or guidelines that have no basis in law.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Simply put: You may fly over but you may NOT take off/land (Includes crash) on NPS property. You must first receive the property owner's permission to T/O if on private property. If you insist on going through with this flight, be forewarned that you may also be violating a wildlife harassment rule if you fly too low and scare the NPS wildlife. $$$ penalty for that. You would still be hard pressed to takeoff and maintain any semblance of direct visual observation.

My suggestion: FWIT-NO GO! Visit a National Forest instead! Different rules.

 

[Thomas B]

And don’t confuse NF with National Wilderness.

 

[theDRONEranger]

And don’t confuse NF with National Wilderness.

Did I, sorry.

 

[Thomas B]

Did I, sorry.

No, you didn’t. Just added the info as NW has min 2000’ altitude flyover and not legal to land a drone.

 

[sar104]

No, you didn’t. Just added the info as NW has min 2000’ altitude flyover and not legal to land a drone.

It may be worth clarifying that this is a request FAR AIM 7-4-6 (b), not a rule:

b. Pilots are requested to maintain a minimum altitude of 2,000 feet above the surface of the following: National Parks, Monuments, Seashores, Lakeshores, Recreation Areas and Scenic Riverways administered by the National Park Service, National Wildlife Refuges, Big Game Refuges, Game Ranges and Wildlife Ranges administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and Wilderness and Primitive areas administered by the U.S. Forest Service.​

 

[IlluminationsfromtheAttic]

Simply put: You may fly over but you may NOT take off/land (Includes crash) on NPS property. You must first receive the property owner's permission to T/O if on private property. If you insist on going through with this flight, be forewarned that you may also be violating a wildlife harassment rule if you fly too low and scare the NPS wildlife. $$$ penalty for that. You would still be hard pressed to takeoff and maintain any semblance of direct visual observation.

My suggestion: FWIT-NO GO! Visit a National Forest instead! Different rules.

You don't need permission to take off from the side of the road within the public right of way though. Also, regarding line of sight, the area appears fairly open judging from satellite imagery, so it should be possible to fly over the park boundary and maintain VLOS. I don't foresee any particular issues with wildlife in the area - birds generally don't care about drones in my experience, so the main concern is going to be keeping an eye out for deer, elk, bears, etc. and ensuring that the drone maintains. If flying over the park boundary seems too risky it's very possible and unquestionably legal to fly adjacent to a park boundary and get some cool shots of the park without treading in murky legal waters.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Have fun!

 

[New England Droning]

The FAA restricts flights over certain public attractions usually at the request of the attraction.
A good example is Disney World in Orlando there’s a permanent Tfr there.
No doubt at some point in time private pilots delighted in flying down Grand Canyon.

Actually you can see wreckage (so we were told by a ranger) from the south rim of two airplanes ✈ that crashed in the canyon in 1956, killing 128. More recently a helicopter ? crashed in 2018 killing 3 and injuring 1. So that airspace restriction is there with a cause.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Actually you can see wreckage (so we were told by a ranger) from the south rim of two airplanes ✈ that crashed in the canyon in 1956, killing 128. More recently a helicopter ? crashed in 2018 killing 3 and injuring 1. So that airspace restriction is there with a cause.

I, my wife, and my brother in law and his wife were at the south rim of the Grand Canyon the day before the crash. I rented a helicopter as a surprise tour for everyone. It was a wonderful tour. Quite breath taking and awesomely inspiring. The next day we continued our journey to LV. On the way, we heard on the radio of a helicopter crash in the canyon. A newly wed couple and one other person were killed. Exact same model chopper and same company, only operating out of LV. (They also do Hawaii). It was a sad event to learn of, especially for those that perished.

Yes, there are certain exceptions in place for helicopter tours in the Grand Canyon. Overflight is still permitted and strictly controlled! Would I rent a chopper again? Yes, in a past life I was armed with M16 or 60 on the floor with a monkey tail. Also, learned how to hot repel outta those dang things. I prefer to stay inside them now!