USA Max Flight Altitude

SteveCA · Jan 27, 2019

JDawg said:
I get where you are coming from but the truth is there is no limit at this time, that's just fact.

It is indeed fact but I for one am okay with those that believe otherwise. I used to argue with self appointed drone police about this but stopped almost two years ago when I realized it was good that so many are misinformed lol.

JDawg · Jan 27, 2019

SteveCA said:
It is indeed fact but I for one am okay with those that believe otherwise. I used to argue with self appointed drone police about this but stopped almost two years ago when I realized it was good that so many are misinformed lol.

I had not considered that angle until HVYMTL brought it up.

SteveCA · Jan 27, 2019

JDawg said:
I had not considered that angle until HVYMTL brought it up.

Yeah, it makes the sky safer for my flights lol

Talmon Murphy · Jan 28, 2019

JDawg said:
There is no altitude limit in the US. You can also fly at night.

tcope · Jan 28, 2019

SteveCA said:
It is indeed fact but I for one am okay with those that believe otherwise. I used to argue with self appointed drone police about this but stopped almost two years ago when I realized it was good that so many are misinformed lol.

So.. when a person thinks they can fly as high as they want, where ever they want... you are okay with this misinformation? That _is_ what you stated.

Or are you only okay with people having the wrong information when it serves to limit them more then they should be? Big difference... it's also just as bad. That is one of the biggest reasons why people don't know the correct rules when flying (good or bad).

ToddCarey · Jan 28, 2019

People still min understand the Part 107 is for commercial UAS pilots. That is where the 400 foot rule IS IN PLACE.

Live LA · Jan 28, 2019

sar104 said:
It really is quite remarkable how often this question is asked, and how much misinformation is asserted in response. If the question is about recreational flight, currently regulated by 14 CFR Part 101 subpart E, the rules are clear. This is Part 101 subpart E in its entirety:

Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft
Source: Docket FAA-2015-0150, Amdt. 101-9, 81 FR 42208, June 28, 2016, unless otherwise noted.

§101.41 Applicability.
This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.

§101.43 Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.
No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.

There is no altitude limit included, but 101.41 (b) states that "the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization".

Currently that means, effectively, the AMA. If you look at the AMA Safety Handbook, it has no general altitude limit, but mentions staying under 400 ft within 3 miles of airports. This exact question was raised by the AMA with the FAA, who provided a written response confirming that there is no altitude limit for recreational flight. That's the law - and supersedes all recommendations and pleas by the FAA on their website.

Looking ahead, in Section 349 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018, which repeals the Special Rule for Model Aircraft that prevented the FAA from regulating recreational flight, the following provision has been added:

In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.

However, until that is implemented by the FAA in 14 CFR, it does not apply.

Thank you! Quick question, if I were to try to stay under that 400 ft (for whatever reason) is that 400 ft from the controller or ground? (sorry if stupid question,) Ive flown in some mountains and canyons I clearly was above 400 ft where I had hiked to, but my drone was only 50ft high from me, sooo is it just a flat 400 from the ground?

sar104 · Jan 28, 2019

Live LA said:
Thank you! Quick question, if I were to try to stay under that 400 ft (for whatever reason) is that 400 ft from the controller or ground? (sorry if stupid question,) Ive flown in some mountains and canyons I clearly was above 400 ft where I had hiked to, but my drone was only 50ft high from me, sooo is it just a flat 400 from the ground?

Altitude (disregarding aircraft above the transition altitude) is always determined by reference to the ground directly below the aircraft.

That's not what the DJI telemetry and logs show though, which is only altitude above the takeoff point.

Montana John · Jan 28, 2019

JDawg said:
There is no altitude limit in the US. You can also fly at night.

Shame on you, you dog. You're jist floutin' yer literacy.

theDRONEranger · Jan 28, 2019

sar104 said:
It really is quite remarkable how often this question is asked, and how much misinformation is asserted in response. If the question is about recreational flight, currently regulated by 14 CFR Part 101 subpart E, the rules are clear. This is Part 101 subpart E in its entirety:

Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft
Source: Docket FAA-2015-0150, Amdt. 101-9, 81 FR 42208, June 28, 2016, unless otherwise noted.

§101.41 Applicability.
This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.

§101.43 Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.
No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.

There is no altitude limit included, but 101.41 (b) states that "the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization".

Currently that means, effectively, the AMA. If you look at the AMA Safety Handbook, it has no general altitude limit, but mentions staying under 400 ft within 3 miles of airports. This exact question was raised by the AMA with the FAA, who provided a written response confirming that there is no altitude limit for recreational flight. That's the law - and supersedes all recommendations and pleas by the FAA on their website.

Looking ahead, in Section 349 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018, which repeals the Special Rule for Model Aircraft that prevented the FAA from regulating recreational flight, the following provision has been added:

In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.

However, until that is implemented by the FAA in 14 CFR, it does not apply.

The sad matter of fact is that with a few clicks of the mouse, one can quite easily obtain the answer. This is one reason I always keep the current release of AMA Safety Rules on the ‘puter and pad. The FAA www is bookmarked as well. Far too easy to fact-check! If one is still truly in doubt after that, default to the safer, more logical of the choices.

SteveCA · Jan 28, 2019

tcope said:
So.. when a person thinks they can fly as high as they want, where ever they want... you are okay with this misinformation? That _is_ what you stated.

Or are you only okay with people having the wrong information when it serves to limit them more then they should be? Big difference... it's also just as bad. That is one of the biggest reasons why people don't know the correct rules when flying (good or bad).

Re-read my post. I think it is self explanatory. Like Droneranger said, if in doubt, it is okay to default to the safer more conservative belief. If that is still unclear to you, that belief would be no higher than 400 feet and daytime only flying.

My point is that it is futile to argue with misinformed know it alls....

STUFF2C · Jan 28, 2019

I adhere to the 400' for no other reason than I just do. Now the night flights on the other hand are intriguing...

mlwdis · Jan 28, 2019

chslam said:
I have read in various forums that in the US there aren’t any limitations to how high you can fly a drone, you just have to be able to see it. Is this true and if it is, can you sight your source?

Not so. 400 feet is our limit.
Now if you fly off a mountain and say you are at 1000 feet on take off. You may fly up 1400. feet. Now you must watch your distance from you. I believe it is 400 feet. Fly further away and now you are flying too high. You are above 400 ft. Same holds true flying around a tower. 400 ft above the tower with 400 feet around the tower.

mlwdis · Jan 28, 2019

Live LA said:
Thank you! Quick question, if I were to try to stay under that 400 ft (for whatever reason) is that 400 ft from the controller or ground? (sorry if stupid question,) Ive flown in some mountains and canyons I clearly was above 400 ft where I had hiked to, but my drone was only 50ft high from me, sooo is it just a flat 400 from the ground?

From where you take off from. 400 above that. Just as flying over a tower. 400 feet above the tower.
If we fly stupidly and have a plane crash into our drone. The FAA is going to take very heavy actions against drones. Plain and simple. Fly smart. There are way too many stupid pilots out there.

JAW · Jan 28, 2019

On or about Feb 6, 2019 (the end of the 120 day comments period following Trumps signing the 2018 FAA Re authorization Act on October 6, 2018)) this will become law:

SEC. 349. EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED RECREATIONAL OPERATIONS OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT.
This section states that a person may operate a small UAS:
1. without certification or operating authority from the FAA if: the aircraft is flown for recreational purposes,
2. the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based organization’s safety guidelines developed in coordination with the FAA,
3.is flown within visual line of sight, does not interfere with manned aircraft, is flown below 400 feet above the ground,
4.the operator passes an online aeronautical knowledge and safety test, (supposedly, this is a tutorial)
5.the aircraft is registered with the FAA.
The FAA may periodically update the required community-based organization standards including the marking and remote identification requirements flying under these recreational parameters.

In addition, the FAA SHALL NOT (the following is my wording and interpretation):
1. require a skills based test or verification of skills
2. require the successful completion of a written test (a la part 107)
3. limit operation in uncontrolled airspace or a pre-designated flying areas
4. require an airworthiness certificate for the drone

sar104 · Jan 28, 2019

mlwdis said:
Not so. 400 feet is our limit.
Now if you fly off a mountain and say you are at 1000 feet on take off. You may fly up 1400. feet. Now you must watch your distance from you. I believe it is 400 feet. Fly further away and now you are flying too high. You are above 400 ft. Same holds true flying around a tower. 400 ft above the tower with 400 feet around the tower.

Please don't post if you don't know the rules, which you evidently don't. There is no fixed altitude limit for recreational flight and there is no set distance - the requirement is VLOS. The structure height and distance requirements are Part 107 only. And you only have to read through this short thread to see the relevant law. How hard can this be?

sar104 · Jan 28, 2019

JAW said:
On or about Feb 6, 2019 (the end of the 120 day comments period following Trumps signing the 2018 FAA Re authorization Act on October 6, 2018)) this will become law:

SEC. 349. EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED RECREATIONAL OPERATIONS OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT.
This section states that a person may operate a small UAS:
1. without certification or operating authority from the FAA if: the aircraft is flown for recreational purposes,
2. the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based organization’s safety guidelines developed in coordination with the FAA,
3.is flown within visual line of sight, does not interfere with manned aircraft, is flown below 400 feet above the ground,
4.the operator passes an online aeronautical knowledge and safety test, (supposedly, this is a tutorial)
5.the aircraft is registered with the FAA.
The FAA may periodically update the required community-based organization standards including the marking and remote identification requirements flying under these recreational parameters.

In addition, the FAA SHALL NOT (the following is my wording and interpretation):
1. require a skills based test or verification of skills
2. require the successful completion of a written test (a la part 107)
3. limit operation in uncontrolled airspace or a pre-designated flying areas
4. require an airworthiness certificate for the drone

Those requirements will become law when codified in 14 CFR. Until then the transition language of Section 380 applies and, as the FAA state on their website, the existing requirements of 14 CFR Part 101 apply.

Buckshot Ranch · Jan 28, 2019

Perhaps the consternation regarding this question lies within the age old conflict and question between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. I would suggest that the question, as posed, could be answered in either context, particularly when taking into consideration one's milieu. However, for the purpose of statutory compliance, the judicial system has little tolerance for the "spirit of the law". The discretionary element present in the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law generally lies within the act of enforcement. However, in the USA, criminal law enforcement is broken down into two basic categories, regardless of the letter versus the spirit debate. In the USA, we have "shall take" laws (all felonies) and "may take" laws (misdemeanors and infractions). It would appear, that in the matter of the original poster's question, JDAWG is correct, the letter of the law currently does not limit altitude. However, using the example of "spirit of the law" one could propose that based upon a collective history of pattern and practice, max altitude is "suggested" to be 400'. Note that I said "suggested". It is paramount that one understand that the letter of the law ALWAYS trumps the spirit of the law! To presume otherwise is at least an error in judgement and at worse, deliberate indifference.

SteveCA · Jan 28, 2019

sar104 said:
Please don't post if you don't know the rules, which you evidently don't. There is no fixed altitude limit for recreational flight and there is no set distance - the requirement is VLOS. The structure height and distance requirements are Part 107 only. And you only have to read through this short thread to see the relevant law. How hard can this be?

Amazing how misinformed folks are always the most certain of themselves on the internet! This is why I don’t bother arguing with them anymore.