What is that on my panorama?

[Dale D]

This effect (changing saturation of blue in the sky) looks to me to be similar to the effect I get when making Panos using an SLR and a circular polarizer lens filter. Are you sure that the ND filter you are using are not polarized?

Dear Panel:

Firstly, I thank you all for joining in to try to help me understand why I am getting this dark shadow at the top with my Mavic 2 Pano images. Taking everything into account, I repeated a tested today. I took 4 shots. Two shots with the Freewell Variable ND filter set at 6. Shot (1) with Variable ND set on PANO (2) shot 2- no pano- just a regular shot, with The VARIABLE ND FILTER ON .

Then I brought the drone back down, took off the variable ND filter, placed the factory lens cover back on, then put the drone back up and re-shot, (3) PANO with Variable ND filter. and (4) regular shot (not pano) with no filter.

As you can see, the shadow is not visible without the variable ND filter.

This filter is not a polarizing filter.

Should I just stop using the variable filter and go for the regular ND filters (4-8-16-32,etc.)???? Following are 4 pictures- Pano with Variable ND,Pano without ND filter, regular with Variable ND, and Regular without ND filter.

 

[Dale D]

You might be confusing ND with ND grad- your comments have some applicability to the later with little or no relevance to ND which the subject of this discussion.

These are not graduated filters- they are Freewell variable ND filters.

 

[Dale D]

These are not graduated filters- they are Freewell variable ND filters.

NOT Graduated- . Variable- One filter is 1 through 5 and the 2nd filter is 6-through 9

 

[WithTheBirds]

These are not graduated filters- they are Freewell variable ND filters.

I understand what the filters are and how they operate- I was responding to @lilewis

 

[rhberg]

Dale,
From post #4 I get the impression that the variable ND in question is composed of two polarizing filters that are adjusted to affect density. Your four photos (response 21 above) are consistent with the effect being due to polarization (somehow sensitive to the relative rotation of the two polarizing filters). The last two photos are not pans, implying that the effect is not seen in photo 3 due to the polarization covering the entire image. On the other hand, I may be completely off base here...

 

[Dale D]

I have the Freewell variable ND filters for my M2P,.... there is no problem with any weigh/ gimbal movement. I own dedicated PP ND and NDPL in multiple flavors, but enjoy the convenience factor of the latter unles I know I will use a specific one.

I have the Freewell variable ND filters for my M2P,.... there is no problem with any weigh/ gimbal movement. I own dedicated PP ND and NDPL in multiple flavors, but enjoy the convenience factor of the latter unles I know I will use a specific one.

To Tom B in Gilbert,AZ. - so if you can see my latest post- I did an experiment today- shot 4 images- PANO with and without Variable ND filter, regular photo with and without Variable ND filter. I attached all images. For sure, the images without the variable ND filters have no problem.

So my question to you, what Polar Pro set would you buy- I'm looking for about 3 filters, want to spend around <$80.00. I'm leaning to 8-16-32 ND with polarization.

 

[Thomas B]

To Tom B in Gilbert,AZ. - so if you can see my latest post- I did an experiment today- shot 4 images- PANO with and without Variable ND filter, regular photo with and without Variable ND filter. I attached all images. For sure, the images without the variable ND filters have no problem.

So my question to you, what Polar Pro set would you buy- I'm looking for about 3 filters, want to spend around <$80.00. I'm leaning to 8-16-32 ND with polarization.

I own 4 through 64 PP NDPL filters. The 8-16-32 will be excellent range. I find I use mostly 16 and 32 NDPLs when using polarized.
Remember that angle of the sun relative to the camera direction when shooting DJI automated pianos or movies needs to be pretty constant to avoid variations in colors.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Dear Panel:

Firstly, I thank you all for joining in to try to help me understand why I am getting this dark shadow at the top with my Mavic 2 Pano images. Taking everything into account, I repeated a tested today. I took 4 shots. Two shots with the Freewell Variable ND filter set at 6. Shot (1) with Variable ND set on PANO (2) shot 2- no pano- just a regular shot, with The VARIABLE ND FILTER ON .

Then I brought the drone back down, took off the variable ND filter, placed the factory lens cover back on, then put the drone back up and re-shot, (3) PANO with Variable ND filter. and (4) regular shot (not pano) with no filter.

As you can see, the shadow is not visible without the variable ND filter.

This filter is not a polarizing filter.

Should I just stop using the variable filter and go for the regular ND filters (4-8-16-32,etc.)???? Following are 4 pictures- Pano with Variable ND,Pano without ND filter, regular with Variable ND, and Regular without ND filter.

Are you of the belief that the Freewell Varo ND are not polarising filters? They are- as are all varo ND where the effect is altered by rotation of one of the elements.

Try the same experiment using a straight polarising filter and you will replicate the results you are having.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I own 4 through 64 PP NDPL filters. The 8-16-32 will be excellent range. I find I use mostly 16 and 32 NDPLs when using polarized.
Remember that angle of the sun relative to the camera direction when shooting DJI automated pianos or movies needs to be pretty constant to avoid variations in colors.

There is no difference, for the purpose of the discussion here, between a DJI (or any other) automated PANO or one you might manually process. If the intent is to produce PANO images any filters that have a PL component are best left off the camera.

 

[Thomas B]

Are you of the belief that the Freewell Varo ND are not polarising filters? They are- as are all varo ND where the effect is altered by rotation of one of the elements.

Try the same experiment using a straight polarising filter and you will replicate the results you are having.

Are you sure? Are we all talking about these Freewell filters?

DJI MAVIC 2 PRO VND FILTER

• Razor Sharp optical glass used to ensure optimal quality aerial images • 16Layers multicoated optical glass lens filters ensure crystal clarity in captured footage • Super lightweight CNC ring used in construction prevents adverse effect on gimbal • Freewell Gear Variable ND Kit includes 2-5...

www.freewellgear.com

 

[slup]

To Tom B in Gilbert,AZ. - so if you can see my latest post- I did an experiment today- shot 4 images- PANO with and without Variable ND filter, regular photo with and without Variable ND filter. I attached all images. For sure, the images without the variable ND filters have no problem.

So my question to you, what Polar Pro set would you buy- I'm looking for about 3 filters, want to spend around <$80.00. I'm leaning to 8-16-32 ND with polarization.

Hi Dale,

Firstly ... every tool has it's correct use, I read that you try to optimize & fly with ND as you usually both film & taking stills. Well, ND's are mostly for video to maintain the 180 degree rule & of not so much use for stills if not trying to achieve something requiring a slow shutter (soft flowing water or that it's to bright for the shutter and the 1/8000sec isn't fast enough). But they can be left on if correct exposure can be achieved without going up with the iso. The 180 degree rule should be obeyed up to approx 30 meter altitude for cinematic motion blur, higher then that best to leave the ND on ground in most cases.

Polarizing filters and what's mentioned earlier, variable ND's consisting of 2 pol filters will change the polarizing effect depending on angel to the sun ... so use any polarizing solution while changing angle towards sun will create a changing effect ... filming or taking a pano shoot. Pol filters is best set up on ground according to a pre-planned still photo direction, for filming they will create strange effects if not going in an pre-planned constant direction.

I myself feel that ND's combined with polarizing effects must be worse for filming with changing angels to sun (as ND mainly is of use for filming), I would go for plain ND4-32 & a separate circ pol filter for stills.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Are you sure? Are we all talking about these Freewell filters?

DJI MAVIC 2 PRO VND FILTER

• Razor Sharp optical glass used to ensure optimal quality aerial images • 16Layers multicoated optical glass lens filters ensure crystal clarity in captured footage • Super lightweight CNC ring used in construction prevents adverse effect on gimbal • Freewell Gear Variable ND Kit includes 2-5...

www.freewellgear.com

Yes.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I guess my problem is that when I put the drone in the air I want to take advantage of both the video and single still capabilities of the camera on the same flight.

Yep, it'd be nice for this to work out ok, but with either option (ND or no ND) you will lose out slightly in one of the processes.
This is why I don't take too many photos.

Edit for extra quote . . .

So let me get this straight. Did I make a mistake in ordering variable ND filters?

Not if you are shooting video, much nicer to just adjust by rotation on the ground (carefully with the gimbal on) to the ambient light you are shooting.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Variable filters work great on individual shots where the sky is bright and the ground is in shade, and other similar contrasts.

Don't you have to land and adjust to suit the light differences though ?
Like landing to adjust a PL filter to stop glare, when changing directions.

For your example, I would have thought a GND filter would be better for those ground / land situations, and adjust gimbal to put the filter horizon right where you want it.

To me, some filter options are just way too painful.
The KISS principle = have a good set of ND filters for video only (in general) . . . with bright or direct sunset photos (or a little motion blur photography) you can get away with a low level ND like 4 or even 8, without sacrificing reasonable fast shutter.

 

[Thomas B]

Good discussion.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Should I just stop using the variable filter and go for the regular ND filters (4-8-16-32,etc.)????

In general pretty easy to use the ND for video, or photos if you wish.
Just get drone powered on (on the ground), set shutter to double frame rate, hold what you think is right ND in front of the lens and check histogram.
It it looks good, power down, fit filter, power up and fly.
If too light, go a heavier filter, too dark a lesser grade.
After a while you will pretty much fit the right one as you go, and just use a little EV compensation in adjustment if needed.

 

[Thomas B]

I believe there is a use for both fixed and variable ND filters as well as for true polarizing filters. Experimentation with specific purpose is the best way for individual decisions. I love my PP polarized and also my Freewell VND... each has it’s capabilities and limitations.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I believe there is a use for both fixed and variable ND filters as well as for true polarizing filters. Experimentation with specific purpose is the best way for individual decisions. I love my PP polarized and also my Freewell VND... each has it’s capabilities and limitations.

That is the obvious reality, yes. For the purposes of clarity however, I suspect you likely agree, the message should be that any filters that includes a polarising component (variable ND’s qualify here) should be avoided where the intent is to acquire images for producing stitched panoramas.

 

[Thomas B]

That is the obvious reality, yes. For the purposes of clarity however, I suspect you likely agree, the message should be that any filters that includes a polarising component (variable ND’s qualify here) should be avoided where the intent is to acquire images for producing stitched panoramas.

I would agree, but admit I honestly have never shot a pano other than midday with sun directly above me or with the drone in shade...

 

[GadgetGuy]

I had a similar but even worse issue trying a 360 degree panorama with a variable ND filter. WHAT A MESS IT MADE! It took me a few minutes to understand what happened but I'm convinced that panos with ND filters that include vertical movement and will never blend frames well. But don't get me wrong.. Variable filters work great on individual shots where the sky is bright and the ground is in shade, and other similar contrasts.

If you are referring to a GND filter, I can confirm that using one definitely screws up the M2 pano creation and stitching. The M2 pano creation and stitching is optimized for the stock UV lens filter. Using any other filter, especially one specifically designed for video use, may introduce unpredictable results. Lastly, using a desktop pano stitching program like PanoramaStudio Pro 3 or PTGui will always result in a better stitch from the original images, than one created in the tiny camera! However, you will have to clone in a ceiling, just like the camera does.